The Times

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Jesus has the final say

He said that the end comes when the abomination that maketh desolate is revealed.

Preterists use the term end to mean the end of the old covenant age and the abomination of something placed in a physical temple in Jerusalem.

Since preterist spiritualise things to make it fit their 70AD and make literal and fleshly what is the abomination of desolation, in order to lay claim that all events happened before the ransaking of Jerusalem in 70AD.

Partial preterists agree with the 70AD, except they sight Augustine as to the literal second advent of Christ where we all will be changed ands be reunited with Christ in our heavenly bodies.

The problem with all preterist eschatology is that their claim of the abomination that maketh desolate being a literal physical object placed in the temple of Jerusalem is from their spiritual formulation completely contradictory.

Why I say this, is because Jesus said that the temple at Jerusalem and the pharisical church that ran it was spiritually desolate when he uttered his words to that church authority of his time. His resurrection was the sign of Jonah given to that church authority to turn to him or else and this is symbolised by the tearing of the vail in the temple in Jerusalem to signify separation or divorce from that old mule/old church, old mother harlot/new church. Hence the symbolism to why he changed the mule/old church for its colt/young bride/new church, when entering Jerusalem.

So the temple or Holy place that Jesus is referring to where the abomination that maketh desolate is revealed is the spiritual temple of the body, that is where the Holy place is by application of the new covenant.

Preterist then further introduce a theology that the new covenant and old covenant existed side by side until 70AD, by trying to make Jesus words void when he said FROM NOW ON you house/church is left onto you desolate.

So the abomination that maketh desolate is future to 70AD, when an Autonomous law culture emerges to legislate homosexuality openly in the public arena which takes out the authority of church and state that kept it at bay, even in the time of Rome and Augustine.

We are living in the time where the abomination that maketh desolate is revealed openly now and according to Augustine it is this decadent lifestyle that brought down Rome.
 
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Lazarus Short

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We are witnessing......

The destruction of the family by the homosexual agenda

The destruction of gender through the Transgender agenda

The destruction of humanity through the Transhumanist agenda

Are these the "three unclean spirits like frogs"?
 
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John 1720

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This is for opinion based and would like if you would give reasons why you support the idea. After reading some posts the past few weeks it seems that some people feel that the book of Revelation has already passed and is not to come in the future. I do not want to call individuals out that make these claims, but I am interested in others thoughts on the matter. Has the book of Revelation already been completed and fulfilled? And if so could you please explain, or if you think we are in a certain chapter of Revelation at this time, could you explain where and why. Thanks and God Bless !!
Hi SP,
It appears they were dealing with preterism in AD62 as well. Paul addresses it in 2 Timothy 2:18

  • "But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some".
May the Lord bless you and your family, Pat John 17:20
 
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ViaCrucis

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This is for opinion based and would like if you would give reasons why you support the idea. After reading some posts the past few weeks it seems that some people feel that the book of Revelation has already passed and is not to come in the future. I do not want to call individuals out that make these claims, but I am interested in others thoughts on the matter. Has the book of Revelation already been completed and fulfilled? And if so could you please explain, or if you think we are in a certain chapter of Revelation at this time, could you explain where and why. Thanks and God Bless !!

There are fundamentally four major views of St. John's Apocalypse (the Revelation):

1. Futurist - the events described in the text are entirely or primarily future, and thus describe the period of the Eschaton.

2. Historicist - the events described in the text cover the span of history between the time of St. John and the Eschaton.

3. Preterist - the events described in the text were contemporaneous with St. John. This can be also divided into two subsets:

3a. Orthodox or Partial Preterism - the Eschaton has not happened thus the past tense reading of the text does not mean the Parousia has already occured.

3b. Full Preterism - the Eschaton is past, there is no future Parousia, thus everything in the text is past tense.

4. Idealist - the text doesn't describe specific events or persons from any time period, but rather describe larger themes and ideas.

I subscribe to an Orthodox Preterist/Idealist reading of the text. St. John the Divine was writing to actual Christian communities located in the Roman province of Asia suffering under the reign of Emperor Domitian Caesar. The imperial powers of Rome are described using the graphic imagery of a beast, both as the beast that "suffers a mortal wound" whose name adds up to six hundred and sixty-six (or six hundred and sixteen based on an ancient textual variant) most likely referring to Nero who had, in a sense, returned from the dead with the persecution under Domitian. The city of Rome itself is called Babylon, a harlot who rides upon the beast, which (wink wink nudge nudge) has the imperial purple. Fundamentally the powers of this world, though given teeth as it were by the dragon, are nothing in comparison to the risen and victorious Christ who in the beginning is described as having the keys of Hades, and also as the Lamb worthy to open the scroll and whose wrath and judgment the world shall ultimately face; and who makes an appearance at the end of the text as the victorious One descending riding a white horse with a sword out of His mouth to make war on the nations of the world and tread upon the winepress of God's wrath. Ultimately, God makes all things new, every tear shall be wiped from the eyes of God's people, there will be no more death.

The point of the text is to bring comfort to the suffering saints in Asia from a pastoral figure imprisoned on the penal colony of Patmos. His visions are for their comfort (and, ultimately ours) as we can be confident that in spite of all trouble Christ is King and Lord, and God is in control, as the One who sits upon the Throne and who, in the end, shall exercise all justice, power, and authority and there shall be life everlasting and world without end.

Mortem tuam annuntiámus, Dómine, et tuam resurrectiónem confitémur, donec vénias. Amen.


We proclaim your death, O Lord, and profess your Resurrection until you come again. Amen.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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The Times

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Hi SP,
It appears they were dealing with preterism in AD62 as well. Paul addresses it in 2 Timothy 2:18

  • "But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some".
May the Lord bless you and your family, Pat John 17:20

Preterists think of the resurrection as a spiritual rebirth and they place this spiritual rebirth where death is conquered and the enemies of the cross delt with according to their 70AD thesis.

The problem is they negate the power of the cross and pentecost altogether by using their 70AD thesis to justify the abolishing of the old covenant and the ushering in of the new covenant.

To a preterist the new covenant isn't really ratified until 70AD. This means that they have to make some concessions that it was available to the disciples as a promise that was yet to be realised until 70AD.

When questioning preterist as to how the founding disciples who died had only the promise that entails the new covenant, but never lived to realise its fullness in recieving the promises, their answer is obscure and vague at best.

I think that Preterism fails to give an answer to why he gave an ultimatum alluding to his resurrection (sign of Jonah) as the final separation from the old covenant and those who continued by it.

I have pointed out only a few contradiction of preterist eschatology and their theology, but I have many essays that further more exposes their 70AD myth.
 
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Solomons Porch

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Hi SP,
It appears they were dealing with preterism in AD62 as well. Paul addresses it in 2 Timothy 2:18

  • "But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some".
May the Lord bless you and your family, Pat John 17:20
Thanks for sharing this information and for the blessing on me and my family. May God bless you I receive :oldthumbsup:
 
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Anto9us

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One of the drawbacks, Sol-Po, in discussing Preterism on these boards is --
that here and elsewhere -- Full Preterism proponents are not allowed

and Partial Preterists disagree among themselves on so many points...

Preterists have some good interpreations, but

as Yogi Berra said

"It aint over til its over"
 
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Solomons Porch

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One of the drawbacks, Sol-Po, in discussing Preterism on these boards is --
that here and elsewhere -- Full Preterism proponents are not allowed

and Partial Preterists disagree among themselves on so many points...

Preterists have some good interpreations, but

as Yogi Berra said

"It aint over til its over"
Hmmmm?? ok :oldthumbsup:
 
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CrystalDragon

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This is for opinion based and would like if you would give reasons why you support the idea. After reading some posts the past few weeks it seems that some people feel that the book of Revelation has already passed and is not to come in the future. I do not want to call individuals out that make these claims, but I am interested in others thoughts on the matter. Has the book of Revelation already been completed and fulfilled? And if so could you please explain, or if you think we are in a certain chapter of Revelation at this time, could you explain where and why. Thanks and God Bless !!


Given some things of the text itself (the explicitly mentioned tribes, the number of the Beast relating to Nero, etc.), I don't think it was ever meant to be a vision of our distant future at all, but rather a message to the persecuted Christians in those tribes (note that specific parts of the book are addressed to specific tribes) that the Roman Empire would soon fall, all wrapped in symbolism so John wouldn't be killed by the Romans.
 
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Neogaia777

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This is for opinion based and would like if you would give reasons why you support the idea. After reading some posts the past few weeks it seems that some people feel that the book of Revelation has already passed and is not to come in the future. I do not want to call individuals out that make these claims, but I am interested in others thoughts on the matter. Has the book of Revelation already been completed and fulfilled? And if so could you please explain, or if you think we are in a certain chapter of Revelation at this time, could you explain where and why. Thanks and God Bless !!
The truth is that it "has happened", "does happen" and "will happen again" and again...

Only that there is one final time that it will happen and the whole world, and the effect will be globally, for the first time in history, when it happens again, or next...

And/but the tribulation and trouble this one last final time, will be on a level that will be unprecedented in comparison to anything before it...

Revelation speaks of it happening four times in the book...

(Revelation 10:11)

God Bless!
 
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Winken

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This is for opinion based and would like if you would give reasons why you support the idea. After reading some posts the past few weeks it seems that some people feel that the book of Revelation has already passed and is not to come in the future. I do not want to call individuals out that make these claims, but I am interested in others thoughts on the matter. Has the book of Revelation already been completed and fulfilled? And if so could you please explain, or if you think we are in a certain chapter of Revelation at this time, could you explain where and why. Thanks and God Bless !!
It is yet to come. It has not been fulfilled. Whatever it means, it is not applicable to Christians. Not now, not ever.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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I've seen many of the explanations of revelations already happened or we are half way through...etc. But problem is there are many flaws and holes in those views. Where as the view of the revelations hasn't happened just yet makes total sense. Especially considering some things such as all the prophecies of what would happen before the end days haven't happened yet. If I recall there are only like 2 or 3 left at this point before the rapture stuff starts. One of the last prophecies that happened was the forming of the Euro.

In revelations we also learn that near the end of it that Israel will have enemies from all sides and being attacked. Well if you look at Israel now its is surrounded by massive countries all around that hate it from islamic countries and countries like china and russia (kings of the north and east). And when they do attack (skipping a bunch of long stuff here) at one point the enemies will literally be supernaturally destroyed at once as He comes down from the clouds to destroy them. That hasn't happened yet or else most of the countries surrounding Israel would have been decimated and also considering there isn't a valley full of blood from the battle, more evidence it hasn't happen yet.

I recommend this book:
Middle East Burning: Is the Spreading Unrest a Sign of the End Times?: Mark Hitchcock: 9780736939966: Amazon.com: Books

It was written I think 3 years ago about revelations and how close we are to everything going down. I've never seen such a amazing book that has evidence for everything it states and evidence to show other views have gaps and holes in their views. Because its such a hot topic I can't mention some of what really blew my mind and I see because it points out who the anti-christ may possibly be (doesn't name a person, but a position they are in currently). And when you hear why its this person in said position, you see it could be true going by what the news has said and by what the bible says.
 
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4x4toy

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I'll jump in and I'm much more confused than expert .. I want to relate mystery Babylon to Nimrod and his tower of Babel .. There's never been a time since then that the world was uniting like they're trying to now , world powers have carved earth up into 10 zones and are trying to take sovereignty from all nations to establish one world government and rule and one world religion and Jesus will not be welcome in it .. Some say the Holy Spirit must first be taken out of the way , some say the Arch Angel Michael and some say a man or nation is he who restrains with God's help ,only then the Antichrist can be revealed . I believe a new temple will be built and Jerusalem will be important for world rule .. Peace will be announced then Katie bar the door .. The plagues , trumpets , vials ? Fukushima news says that now the meltdowns will never stop until the end of time and maybe that could be the star that makes a third of the waters bitter but that includes Chernoble and other nuclear reactor leaks , they could be seen as burning stars . I've heard that earthquakes and volcanos are on the rise but who knows what is truth these days .. Honeybee die offs should be a major concern and tribute and idols of Baal are popping up all over the world , technology in eugenics are who knows how advanced now .. We know that men will seek death and not find it even beg for the rocks to fall on them .. There may have been a type of fulfilling previously but I don't think it was the main event . and I think we're very close . I do believe we'll have another great move of God first but evil has set it's roots too deep to brush it off .. World banks are in every country except mabe one or two I haven't checked lately but look at the last dozen or so countries to fall to the world bank and see if it rings a bell for you .. Conspiracy theories thought ridiculous years ago are proving true after all imo .. So no I don't think Revelation has happened but maybe it's at the door and close maybe beginning ..
 
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Hank77

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Homosexuality is a decadent lifestyle and Augustine blamed Rome's demise on this particular lifestyle.
You have quoted St Augustine, can you quote were he says that this decedence is homosexuality? I'll bet you can't.
 
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DennisTate

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SkyWriting

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This is for opinion based and would like if you would give reasons why you support the idea. After reading some posts the past few weeks it seems that some people feel that the book of Revelation has already passed and is not to come in the future. I do not want to call individuals out that make these claims, but I am interested in others thoughts on the matter. Has the book of Revelation already been completed and fulfilled? And if so could you please explain, or if you think we are in a certain chapter of Revelation at this time, could you explain where and why. Thanks and God Bless !!

Either way, it's already set in writing. So yes, the battle is won and Jesus wins.
Even if you think its not over, it is.
 
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Dave-W

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Multiverse Theory allows for a whole new understanding of this Theory.
I find the concept of "multiverse" to be self-contradictory.
 
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