REVELATION HAS ALREADY HAPPENED?

[All4Christ]

I think you are right, could you move it please......Thank You

I requested a move.

 

[Solomons Porch]

I requested a move.

Thank You

 

[rockytopva]

I believe in the seven churches of Revelation as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

After the end of the church ages the Lord will seal each person saved in each church congregation...

1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. - Revelation 5


1. The seven stars are the Christians in each general congregation, held in the right hand of Jesus Christ
2. The seven candlesticks are the seven churches
3. The seven seals seal each Christian in each congregation in the Lambs Book of Life

So... The majority of Revelation has yet to be fulfilled.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Yes. It is a branch of end time theology called Preterism. Everything wrapped up in 70 ad.

I cannot explain it as it makes no sense to me at all.

Revolution was written after 70 ad. What happened in 70ad is a shadow and a type of what will happen at the end of the church age. That is why in Mathew 24 Jesus talks about them both at the same time. There are more people alive in the world now then what there has ever been. This last drive to take the gospel to the end of the world will be the greatest. Even if you just look at the logistics of what it will take to get the job done.

 

[Dave-W]

evolution was written after 70 ad.

I know. The Gospel of John even later that Revelation.

But to the Preterist that all had to be written BEFORE 70 ad.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I know. The Gospel of John even later that Revelation.

But to the Preterist that all had to be written BEFORE 70 ad.

Usually they use the date of 90ad. According to legend they tried to kill John the Revelation by boiling him in oil. They failed and they were not able to kill him so he was exiled to the Island of Patmos where he wrote the book of Revolutionary. He was said to be the only disciple that lived out his whole life. Perhaps that is why Jesus choose John to take care of his mother Mary. You can not keep a salty dog down even if it takes blood, sweat & tears to perseveres.

 

[Dave-W]

Usually they use the date of 90ad.

"They?" The Preterists?

 

[Dave-W]

they were not able to kill him so he was exiled to the Island of Patmos where he wrote the book of Revolutionary.

Emperor Domitian exiled hundreds of political opponents and religious zealots to unpopulated islands in the Greek archipelago. After his death in 96 ad they were pardoned by the Senate and returned to their homes. (those still alive)

 

[Hank77]

I'll be interested in hearing from someone who believes in preterism also. Seems almost impossible to me that it could have happened in 70 AD.

There is also a misconception that if someone believes that some things happened in 70 AD that they are a full preterist. That is not true they might be a partial preterist or a historicist, such as many were during the times of the Reformation and still are. Not everyone is a futurist.

Was the temple destroyed in 70 AD? Did some of the people standing and listening to Jesus say that it would be, live to see it? When they saw the warnings did they flee to the mountains? Yes, is the answer to all those questions and many others.

 

[KingCrimson250]

I'll be interested in hearing from someone who believes in preterism also. Seems almost impossible to me that it could have happened in 70 AD.

I agree I am interested in hearing.....

Partial Preterist here. The first important distinction we have to make is between partial preterism and full preterism. Partial preterism, which I hold to, is the notion that the first 18-odd chapters of Revelation are speaking to the destruction of Jerusalem (and I would argue the fall of the Western Roman Empire, though plenty of partial preterists will disagree with me on that point), while the final few chapters are speaking to a sort of ultimate end, the Second Coming of Christ. In other words, I believe the text serves as foretelling and warning of the destruction of the Temple, the increasing persecution Christians will have to face, and the coming fall of Rome, and finishes this with a hopeful reminder of the end that will come later - that God will make His Kingdom here on earth.

I will note, however, that I do concede it's possible that Revelation is also speaking typologically to a larger apocalypse. I just don't think this is the primary purpose of the text. The reason I arrived at the partial preterist view in the first place is that a lot of what seems like obscure prophecy actually becomes fairly logical when plugged in to its immediate historical context. It's also worth noting that this is in keeping with the OT - when Isaiah speaks of the "Day of the Lord," for example, this is not in reference to a coming end days, but rather God's judgment on Israel and the coming Babylonian captivity. Again, it could typologically be referring to a sort of ultimate Day of the Lord, but that's entirely speculative, and taking that track brings you outside of the context of the text.

So I guess I would say it's possible to read Revelation as speaking to an ultimate apocalypse? But when you do that I think you miss out on so much of what the book is saying.

Full preterists believe that the entirety of Revelation is something that has happened in the past, including the last few chapters. This is always something I've struggled with, as it seems to be demonstrably false. If the current world we live in is one where God has already abolished evil and set up His rule, then I'd like a new God, please and thank you. As far as I understand, however, that's not entirely the full preterist position - from what I've encountered, it seems more to be that the message of hope seen in the final chapters of Revelation is more a reference to the death and resurrection of Christ. Again, not really tenable, if you ask me, but then again, I'm not a full preterist.

 

[Hank77]

Emperor Domitian exiled hundreds of political opponents and religious zealots to unpopulated islands in the Greek archipelago. After his death in 96 ad they were pardoned by the Senate and returned to their homes. (those still alive)

That's true.

John was not on Patmos when he died. He was living in Ephesus. We know this because of the writings of the early church fathers. Polycarp, the Bishop of Smyrna was his student and it is said that John appointed him to that position.

 

[Pilgrim Heir]

This is for opinion based and would like if you would give reasons why you support the idea. After reading some posts the past few weeks it seems that some people feel that the book of Revelation has already passed and is not to come in the future. I do not want to call individuals out that make these claims, but I am interested in others thoughts on the matter. Has the book of Revelation already been completed and fulfilled? And if so could you please explain, or if you think we are in a certain chapter of Revelation at this time, could you explain where and why. Thanks and God Bless !!

There are principally 4 interpretative views on the book of Revelation. Futurist is most prevalent today, but it is only 1 of the 4. The other 3 are historical, spiritual, and preterist. There is a commentary edited by Steve Gregg that provides a chapter by chapter interpretation of each view that you might find useful if you have the time.

 

[The Times]

This is for opinion based and would like if you would give reasons why you support the idea. After reading some posts the past few weeks it seems that some people feel that the book of Revelation has already passed and is not to come in the future. I do not want to call individuals out that make these claims, but I am interested in others thoughts on the matter. Has the book of Revelation already been completed and fulfilled? And if so could you please explain, or if you think we are in a certain chapter of Revelation at this time, could you explain where and why. Thanks and God Bless !!

The focal point of no return is the unveiling of the abomination that maketh desolate.

Never before in the history of mankind has the family, gender and humanity been under threat, until now, within THE TIMES that we are living in today.

We are witnessing......

The destruction of the family by the homosexual agenda

The destruction of gender through the Transgender agenda

The destruction of humanity through the Transhumanist agenda

All the above abominations infringe on God's Created Rights and are there to serve the LIE that was sold to Adam and Eve in the Garden by the father of LIES Satan aka Lucifer.

The LIE is....

You shall surely not die but will be like God.

This Autononous law culture has thought to change the times and objective moral laws of God and to replace them with subjective moral laws made to serve the creature, rather than the Creator.

Where are these lying signs and wonders/marvels leading humanity to?

This Luciferean agenda is the complete annihilation of God's Image that humanity was made in (Genesis 1:27).

The rebelliousness of humanity aspiring to be like God legislates under the tolerance agenda Autonmous laws that is inclusive of man's desires and thereby unwittingly making those very laws beneficiaries to the servitude of the Creature. Never before in history has an Autonomous law culture been enforced as it has been today, where Christians who abide by the objective moral laws of God are labelled HATERS.

So this leads to Satan's prophetic lie in the Garden, that you shall be immortals and therefore be like God.

This is the focal point of no return where the abomination that maketh desolate has been unveiled in our time, which impacts humanity on a global scale.

This is a Transhumanist agenda that tries to do away with man and the image of God

Here are also my two threads on the Abomination that maketh desolate being established globally.

The Man of Sin has been revealed in our day and age, the Great Falling Away has begun!

The Highway to Hell from Homosexuality to Transgenderism to Transhumanism to annihilation

Are we here yet?

 

[Solomons Porch]

There are principally 4 interpretative views on the book of Revelation. Futurist is most prevalent today, but it is only 1 of the 4. The other 3 are historical, spiritual, and preterist. There is a commentary edited by Steve Gregg that provides a chapter by chapter interpretation of each view that you might find useful if you have the time.

thank you so much God Bless

 

[Solomons Porch]

The focal point of no return is the unveiling of the abomination that maketh desolate.

Never before in the history of mankind has the family, gender and humanity been under threat, until now, within THE TIMES that we are living in today.

We are witnessing......

The destruction of the family by the homosexual agenda

The destruction of gender through the Transgender agenda

The destruction of humanity through the Transhumanist agenda

All the above abominations infringe on God's Created Rights and are there to serve the LIE that was sold to Adam and Eve in the Garden, by the father of LIES Satan aka Lucifer.

The LIE is....

You shall surely not die but will be like God.

This Autononous law culture has thought to change the times and objective moral laws of God and to replace them with subjective moral laws made to serve the creature, rather than the Creator.

Where are these lying signs and eonders/marvels leading humanity to, is the complete annihilation of God's Image that humanity was made in (Genesis 1:27).

Humanity aspiring to be like God legislates under the tolerance agenda Autonmous laws that is inclusive of man and thereby unwittingly making those very laws beneficiaries to the servitude of the Creature. Never before in history has an Autonomous law culture been enforced as it has been today, where Christians who abide by the objective moral laws of God are labelled HATERS.

So this leads to Satan's prophetic lie in the Garden, that you shall be immortals and therefore be like God.

This is the focal point of no return where the abomination that maketh desolate has been unveiled in our time, which impacts humanity on a global scale.

This is a Transhumanist agenda that tries to fi away with man and the image of God

Here are also my two threads on the Abomination that maketh desolate being established globally.

The Man of Sin has been revealed in our day and age, the Great Falling Away has begun!

The Highway to Hell from Homosexuality to Transgenderism to Transhumanism to annihilation

Are we here yet?

Thank you I will look into these things you have taken time to post, God Bless you !!

 

[RC1970]

You have to distinguish between Preterism and Partial (or moderate) Preterism. Originally, I was a futurist, but after careful study of the various end time views, I came to the conclusion that the Partial Preterist view made the most sense.

I agree with St. Augustine that Chiliasm (futurism) is of a "carnal mind".

 

[DeerGlow]

You have to distinguish between Preterism and Partial (or moderate) Preterism. Originally, I was a futurist, but after careful study of the various end time views, I came to the conclusion that the Partial Preterist view made the most sense.

I agree with St. Augustine that Chiliasm (futurism) is of a "carnal mind".

Why does believing it's in the future make a person carnal?

 

[The Times]

You have to distinguish between Preterism and Partial (or moderate) Preterism. Originally, I was a futurist, but after careful study of the various end time views, I came to the conclusion that the Partial Preterist view made the most sense.

I agree with St. Augustine that Chiliasm (futurism) is of a "carnal mind".

A secondary source link below...

Christian History | Learn the History of Christianity & the Church

Augustine came to the conclusion to believe that viewing the millennial kingdom as physical and political tended one toward the error of the Chiliasts.

Chiliasts thought of the millennium as a fleshly indulgence of the abundance of the excesses of life, like gratification of appetite and lust in the here and now within the earthly body.

He preferred a broader view of the thousand years, as a term marking an indefinite period of time between the first advent, when Christ’s kingdom was established, and his second advent. During this span of time, writes Augustine, the devil is “prevented from the exercise of his whole power to seduce men” and the saints “reign with Christ” over his spiritual kingdom. When Christ returns, he will judge the living and the dead, and then will usher in the eternal state.

In depth study of his writings are linked to replying to the once pagens who were now Christian converts of the state of Rome, who started to blame the state wide Christian religion for their loss to the Visigoths.

In actual fact Augustine gave them a reply as follows...

Augustine composed his great treatise, The City of God. In the first part he reminds pagan accusers that Rome had suffered catastrophes long before the advent of Christianity. He suggests it was not Christianity that brought Rome to her knees, but decadence within.

Guess what was rampent within the Roman culture?

The sin of homosexual practices, which Paul tried to address to the Romans in his time.

Behind closed doors homosexuality was rife and even though the state Christian religion prevented it from being played out into the public eye, it most certainly paid a blind eye to its secret workings, as Paul described in detail the man/prosopos/people of sin in 2 Thessalonians 2.

Homosexuality is a decadent lifestyle and Augustine blamed Rome's demise on this particular lifestyle.

Certainly Paul's prophesy would then progress to our time where homosexuality and transgender movements are revealed out in the public arena and in gay pride marches, that are supported by 21 governments around the world who hold brazingly the rainbow coloured flags in one hand whilst raising their other hand with fist clenched upwards pointing towards God.

Preterism ends up further serving the LIE because they are caught taking Augustine completely out of context.

 

[Courage Ampadu]

This is for opinion based and would like if you would give reasons why you support the idea.

Hi
I the reason why some think that Revelation has happened is because of Luke 21. That passage talks about end times but mixes it with events of AD70.
Fundamentally there are two texts in the bible that speak extensively about end times and they are found in Matthew 24 and Luke 21. Both accounts are in response to questions asked by the disciples. Those questions were about three things the destruction of the temple, the end of the age and the sign of his coming. The Lord answers all three questions in those two passages but Matthew and Luke lay different emphases. Matthew only records a brief account of events of AD 70 whilst Luke focuses primarily on that. Both talk about the sign of his coming and the events preceding his coming.
Look at this way; Matthew's genealogy of Jesus is different from Luke's on a few accounts but they are essentially the same thing looked at from different angle.

People who think that Revelation has happened do so, I would imagine, on the basis of Luke 21.

 

[The Times]

A secondary source link below...

Christian History | Learn the History of Christianity & the Church

Augustine came to the conclusion to believe that viewing the millennial kingdom as physical and political tended one toward the error of the Chiliasts.

Chiliasts thought of the millennium as a fleshly indulgence of the abundance of the excesses of life, like gratification of appetite and lust in the here and now within the earthly body.

He preferred a broader view of the thousand years, as a term marking an indefinite period of time between the first advent, when Christ’s kingdom was established, and his second advent. During this span of time, writes Augustine, the devil is “prevented from the exercise of his whole power to seduce men” and the saints “reign with Christ” over his spiritual kingdom. When Christ returns, he will judge the living and the dead, and then will usher in the eternal state.

In depth study of his writings are linked to replying to the once pagens who were now Christian converts of the state of Rome, who started to blame the state wide Christian religion for their loss to the Visigoths.

In actual fact Augustine gave them a reply as follows...

Augustine composed his great treatise, The City of God. In the first part he reminds pagan accusers that Rome had suffered catastrophes long before the advent of Christianity. He suggests it was not Christianity that brought Rome to her knees, but decadence within.

Guess what was rampent within the Roman culture?

The sin of homosexual practices, which Paul tried to address to the Romans in his time.

Behind closed doors homosexuality was rife and even though the state Christian religion prevented it from being played out into the public eye, it most certainly paid a blind eye to its secret workings, as Paul described in detail the man/prosopos/people of sin in 2 Thessalonians 2.

Homosexuality is a decadent lifestyle and Augustine blamed Rome's demise on this particular lifestyle.

Certainly Paul's prophesy would then progress to our time where homosexuality and transgender movements are revealed out in the public arena and in gay pride marches, that are supported by 21 governments around the world who hold brazingly the rainbow coloured flags in one hand whilst raising their other hand with fist clenched upwards pointing towards God.

Preterism ends up further serving the LIE because they are caught taking Augustine completely out of context.

@DeerGlow don't be decieved, look above attached content and discern that St Augustine has been taken out of context by Preterists.