MJ Only Revelation and the Yom Kippur Temple Service

[Lulav]

This seems to be a catch-all thread for my ramblings and my latest has to do with the 'Seven' days of Creation. I know most say six days of Creation and on the seventh El rested, but from my perspective, He Created, Blessed and Sanctified a day of Rest for the sake of man's Seed and as a prophetic foretelling to the Age to Come.

I agree,

The Days of Creation align with many of the 'Sevens'. In this case I want to examine the Seven Covenants made with Man, the Seven Furnishings of the Temple and the Seven Appointed Times of Elohim for the apparent relationship they share and what that might reveal about the bringing of His children back to the Garden and into His His Presence.

I know there are many '7's' in the word but I just would like to interject here that I believe there are more than 7 moedim. Now the ones that start with the first month are in a group, '7'. But other appointed times are the weekly Sabbath and the New Moon. Maybe it's kinda like the '12's' in the word where it gets a bit off with Ephraim and Manasseh making 13. But enough of that rabbit trail.

My first step was to examine the Days of Creation for what 'themes' they might reveal; that is characteristics that remain uniform across several sets of prominent 'Sevens' mentioned in scripture. I realize that much has been written on this topic. But I did not initially research those studies, instead preferring to approach this topic with fresh eyes and as much of an unbiased view as I could muster. What follows is a brief description of what I observed.

Best way to do it Phillip

The 1st Day of Creation speaks in broad terms describing what I took as the most basic state of a physical sphere of existence. But I realized that everything described is equally applicable to what we know of the spiritual sphere as well. When we speak of 'the heavens', the plurality is generally understood as both the physical heavens (the sky) and the spiritual heavens (the dwelling place of spiritual beings). Even more so, the Heavens are described as the Waters above in contrast to the Waters below. But the more I read, the more blurry that demarcation became.

On another note and if you think about it, the Creation testifies of its Creator and there are many confirmations in scripture that 'the land' is a full partner in the Covenants made with man and man's Seed. The entire plan of salvation is based on the premise that Adonai will return His children back to His presence and back into 'the Garden'. In a number of places, it is revealed that the land 'testifies', as in; bearing witness to the blood of Abel, causing Adonai to eject the Land's inhabitants for not observing the Land's Sabbatical rest or, if the praises of the Son were stifled then, 'the rocks and trees would cry out'. I'm sure you get the drift. There seems to be a definite spiritual aspect to all of the physical creation. That is how I approached the Creation Story.

But getting back to the point, there appears to be some striking correlations between the Days of Creation and other prominant 'Sevens' in scripture. What that actually means in my mind, will shortly follow a brief description of the methods that lead me to these conclusions. However, each Day of Creation has been summarized by others. So it is necessary that I give you my perspective on each day, that you can understand the choices I made and the path I followed. Ultimately, this how I summarized the text;

The Seven Days of Creation

1. Adonai created the Heavens and Earth. Brought forth Light and separated it from Darkness
2. Adonai separated the Waters above from below
3. Adonai separated the Water from the Land to bring forth Seed bearing plants
4. Adonai brought forth Lights in the Heavens for Signs, Seasons, Days & Years
5. Adonai brought forth Creatures that dwell in the Waters above & below
6. Adonai brought forth Creatures that dwell on the land and most notably, Man and his Seed
7. Adonai created the Sabbath Rest for Man and his Seed

I already gave my views on this in a previous post. I wanted you to see how I see it so you can better understand my responses.

Notice how the 1st three days of Creation match themes (Light, Water, Seed) with the second three days, with the first three providing a foundation for the second three? Notice that the 1st six days lay the foundation for a return to Rest in the Garden and in the presence of Adonai? Maybe not? Read on.

So you mean like this:
1 -God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. ---So the evening and the morning were the first day.
4 -Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years------So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

2 -Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. -----
So the evening and the morning were the second day
5 - “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.” ----So the evening and the morning were the fifth day

3 - “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas--------“Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so.----------So the evening and the morning were the third day.
6 - “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so-----------------“Let Us make man in Our image,-----So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

As an illustration of how I interpret the 1st day, the dichotomy between Light and Darkness is expressed many times in scripture in terms like Good and Evil, Lawful and Lawless, Blessings and Curses and as you will soon see, Life and Death. So each subsequent day is explained in a likewise manner through the Themes that emerge from The Seven Covenants made with Man and Man's Seed. Observe:

The Seven Covenants made with Man and his Seed

1. Adam, With the mention of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, we must remember Light & Darkness, Life & Death, Good & Evil, Blessings & Curses
2. Noah, The Land was cleansed (of contaminated Seed) by Water from above & below. Read Enoch, a book either directly quoted or alluded to over 100 times in the 'New' Testament for more information on the contamination of the bloodline of Man's Seed
3. Abram, Adonai blessed Abraham' Seed (short version due to multitude of related topics)
4. Jacob, Adonai promised his Seed, the Land (of Covenant [or Torah] - which will detail the mitzvot concerning Signs, Seasons or Moed, Days & Years by making proper observance guided by the progression of (you guessed it!) the Light(s) in the Heavens
5. Moses, (Meaning 'Drawn from the Water') who would bring the Redeemed Seed of Jacob and the Heavenly Hosts together in the Land and under the Covenant (Torah)
6. Yeshua, The Messiah (the Sent One, the Prophet, the High Priest and the perpetual King of the Land of Promise), that is both the Seed of Adam and the Seed of Elohim, Who came preaching the return to true Torah principles.
7. Obedient Believers, They that would finally Rest in the Father's love, those that; love Adonai, observe Torah, repent and seek atonement when they fail, those that also believe in His Son and worship the Father; they are the ones that will be redeemed and brought back into the Land

So here we find the same ordered Themes of 1) Light, 2) Water, 3) Seed, 4) Light, 5) Water, 6) Seed, 7) Rest - again. So let's see if the pattern holds for the Seven Furnishings of the Temple.

I'm going to continue this in another post.

 

[Lulav]

continued...

So here we find the same ordered Themes of 1) Light, 2) Water, 3) Seed, 4) Light, 5) Water, 6) Seed, 7) Rest - again. So let's see if the pattern holds for the Seven Furnishings of the Temple.

Furnishings of the Temple

1. Altar of Sacrifice An instrument of sacrifice ignited by the Fire or Light that came down from Heaven
2. Brazen Laver An instrument of cleansing where the Waters are separated above from below
3. Table of Show Bread An instrument to display bread, the finished product of the growers of Seed
4. Golden Lampstand An instrument to Light the Holy Sanctuary
5. Altar of Incense An instrument to burn Incense to the Heavens or Waters
6. Ark of the Covenant An instrument to carry Torah, Mana & the Staff of Aaron; remembrances of Adonai's unwavering intercessions for the Seed of Promise
7. The Mercy Seat A place of righteousness that brings judgement upon the wicked and brings mercy and Rest to His righteous Seed

I can see all that there. But I do have a couple of questions. Perhaps you could clarify #2 and #7
#2

• Brazen Laver An instrument of cleansing where the Waters are separated above from below

It was called 'the sea' if I remember correctly. By separated above from below are you speaking of the laver being below (on earth) and the firmament above?

#7

• The Mercy Seat A place of righteousness that brings judgement upon the wicked and brings mercy and Rest to His righteous Seed

I think that might be stretching the narrative a bit. The ark held the ketubah, Aaron's budded rod and the pot of manna. I would say that the manna represented the seed, the 'bread from heaven'.

So here we find the same ordered Themes of 1) Light, 2) Water, 3) Seed, 4) Light, 5) Water, 6) Seed, 7) Rest - again. Now I confess. It isn't apparent to the casual reader. You must be looking for it or it will escape your attention. Some might suggest I was reading my own conclusions into the text. So there is more work to do to verify these correlations. But nonetheless, let's see if the pattern holds through the Appointed Times of Adonai, shall we? But this time, keep in mind, that the Appointed Times are directly tied to Messiah, no?

Please forgive me my fatigue. We are about halfway to the big reveal but I cant's continue right now. So be blessed and rest in Him! To be continued...

Please get rested and refreshed!

 

[Lulav]

Shalom All,

I know I said I would explore the Seven Appointed Times next, but I think I am going to show you something about the Exodus first. I do this in order to better illustrate the hows and whys of Messiah's relationship to the Appointed Times.

Tell you what. I will explain what happened in the first three inaugural events of the Appointed Times and see if you can find the rest, OK? I call them the Seven Miracles of the Exodus and they began, not with the dealings with Pharaoh, but with the first Passover and the death of the firstborn.

I'll take the challenge Phil.

The Children of Israel were instructed to take the lamb that they had brought into their homes four days prior and slaughter it, take the blood and mark their respective lentils and door posts with it. Then they were to observe the instruction on how to prepare it, consume it and dispose of it during the hours of Darkness and not to emerge from their places until the coming Light. I'm sure you know where to find this story in scripture. Most of the folks here recall, practice and teach these events every year.

Next we find them back up against an inland sea with only one avenue of escape. Now get this: The Waters were parted and they escaped the army of Pharaoh and watched as they drowned.

Next they were three days into the wilderness and three days without water. According to most survivalist, that is when things get critical. They had come to an oasis but the water was 'bitter' (read: unfit for consumption). So Adonai showed Moses a bush. Remember the 3rd Day of Creation and what bushes and trees produce? Right! Seed! So Moses cast the bush into the water and it was made 'sweet'.

So there it is in a nutshell. The first three 'themes', Light, Water and Seed are present and on full display. Can you find the rest? Can you Link them to the rest of the Appointed Times? What say you?

I can see that but I would say the plaque of darkness might fit as well. Egypt had no light, Israel did. Egypt has no messiah, Israel does.

So we're looking for a repeat of this in the Exodus story.

Light - The only thing I can think of is the pillar of fire how it lead them about.
Water - When they complained about being thirsty, Moses was told to speak to the Rock. Paul later called this rock, the Messiah. Messiah said he would bring forth living waters.
Seed - The seed of the disbelieving didn't get to go in.

Now I know that you are familiar with how Messiah fulfilled the Passover and might recall that He was called the First-fruits of the Resurrection. What do you say about Pentecost, the anniversary of when the Covenant was confirmed at Sinai? And how does the rest of the Exodus story play out with respect to the themes of the Seven Days of Creation and the Appointed Times?

Inquiring minds want to know!

I'm trying to match these all up but I think my brain has gone asleep. I'll have to look at this a bit later, sorry Phil.

 

[Lulav]

Hi @Lulav

Thanks for responding so quickly. As you know, I've been busy with family matters but have wanted to respond to your post.

How is your brother doing? I've been praying ..

Anyway, starting from the beginning of this thread isn't what I really wanted. I am sure you are not only familiar with the Creation story, but the correlation between Yom Kippur and the Revelation. I was hoping that you would look at another correlation I have been investigating that links the Creation story to other prominent 'Sevens' in scripture.

OK, good because it got a little conflugelled.

I see your thing about day 1 and day 4, day 2 and day 5 and day 3 and day 6. I've never seen it that way before except for noting the two different days of light.

The premise (in part) upon which I operate is that 'the Heavens' (הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם) is based on the Hebrew root word water (מַ֖יִם) and that the text highlights various actions that were taken concerning water. Water becomes a reoccurring theme in this investigation, much in the way that Light, Seed and Rest does.

Yes, it is always interesting when I'm reading in Hebrew to see 'mayim' or a word containing it.

I wonder if you will tie this in with the Living water, the mikvah?

There is another theme that is mentioned in the Creation story. It is something that I am saving to tie the whole narrative together; The Revelation, the Yom Kippur Temple service, the Appointed Times, everything.

What I really wanted from you is to read my posts concerning these themes and the correlations I am investigating, starting with post #130. That is where your inquisitive and incisive nature would best serve this investigation. And speaking of incisive critical thought, perhaps we might lure @visionary to join in. I would love to hear from you both.

Thanks again, Tal

Well I'm sure Vis will add her own insight. I hope what I've answered so far is of any help, just put down what popped into my mind as I was reading.

I thought I might add this, I was going to put it into my stars thread but since this is based on creation I wondered if you had ever considered this passage I've just come across recently and read in a new light.

Isaiah 42:1“Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,
My Elect One in whom My soul delights!
I have put My Spirit upon Him;
He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice,
Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed He will not break,
And smoking flax He will not quench;
He will bring forth justice for truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged,
Till He has established justice in the earth;
And the coastlands shall wait for His law.”

All about Messiah of course, but look how what comes next takes us back to creation.


5 Thus says God the Lord,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out, ( or spread out)
Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it, (to beat out, just like found in Gen - for the word translated as 'firmament' - same word raqia)
Who gives breath to the people on it, And spirit to those who walk on it:
6 “I, the Lord, have called You in righteousness,
And will hold Your hand;
I will keep You and give You
as a covenant to the people,
As a light to the Gentiles


Just something to chew on.

 

[visionary]

I have seen the hints and clues that you are following, but have yet to bring forth solid relationships that I do believe are there. You are on the right track and I will be following this thread to see if anyone has gone further in this study than we have.

 

[visionary]

One thing that comes to mind is Rev 11 which it talks about the outer court and the measurement of the temple. The temple services remind me of the spiritual growth of the believer. In the outer court, the sacrifice for sin is performed. Yeshua was not sacrificed as our Lamb of God in the temple but outside the temple area, it was way out on Golgotha. Known as a place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha. Golgotha's Hebrew equivalent would be Gulgōleṯ (גֻּלְגֹּלֶת, "skull"), ultimately from the verb galal (גלל) meaning "to roll". If that isn't predictive, "Heads will roll".

The outer temple activities are all performed on earth, that includes the services and the prophecies related to it. Every article in the outer temple courtyard is about activities we are to do on earth, from washing our hands, cleansing our behavior (lavar), and sacrificing for sins, cleansing our hearts and thoughts (altar). It is prophetic that those believers that remain in the vicious cycle of outer temple services are in the last days mass slaughtered.

I know this is not the direction you may have wanted this thread to go, but it is the insight I found.

 

[Lulav]

Hi Phil, hope things are going well for you and family.

I was just replying to another thread and thought about your 7's, do you think this might fit in?

I was saying how I see this not as something that was what to say, but an outline of the order to pray. I broke it down and at the end added a numbered list. It happened it came out to 8 things but #8 'circled back' to #1

Just a thought, see what you think.

Master, teach us to pray......

1. Address: Our Father
2. Location: Who is in Heaven
3. Reverence: Holy is your name
4. First order of prayerful request: Your Kingdom come, Your will be done in earth as in Heaven
5. Personal requests: Give us this day our daily bread ( be reliant upon him to provide each day just like in the wilderness with the manna) Also this refers to the manna from heaven, Jesus himself.
6. Loving our neighbor and how forgiveness works - only God/Jesus can forgive sins ---And forgive us our trespasses - in the same manner as we forgive those who trespass against us.
7. Request for spiritual protection - Lead us not into temptation - rescue us from evil
8. Back to the Lord God - in praise and worship - For thine is the kingdom, and the power and the glory forever. Amein

 

[Yahudim]

@Lulav @visionary

I am so blessed by your posts and yes, I have much to say in response, but I am stifled by time and circumstance. I hope you will forgive me. I will answer you soon, should Adonai be willing and I believe He is.

Please do me this one favor. Look at the miraculous deeds of Elohim I began delineating with the first Passover in the first Exodus. I believe that all of these elements will be found and acted on in a similar manner in the 'greater exodus' that is soon to come.

Barchot v'Shalom my dear Sisters

 

[Lulav]

I get your time crunch Phil, I'm going to be spending today preparing for T'giving. I will as soon as possible take another read through Exodus and see what jumps out at me following your order of Light, Water and seed .

 

[Yahudim]

Shalom Phillp,

I'll admit I've skimmed over most pages but did go through the first two. I just would like to address what you've presented bit by bit so you can see what page I'm on.

Outstanding! In this manner, we should be able to align our perceptions and isolate where they converge and diverge.

In the beginning the Creator created the Heavens and the Earth (Notice the order)
'by the word of God the heavens were of old'

Here we agree, as I see all things physical being brought forth from the spiritual. But I would also suggest that the the same principles are in play with all created things. The spiritual and material are conceptually related and to what degree we can only suppose. Perhaps the physical realm is simply another 'state' of the spiritual.

Take a conceptual perspective for a moment and consider DNA as a 3D example demonstrated through mathematics. For instance, this was presented in a recent news blurb: "Scientific articles by a group of Brazilian researchers from the University of Campinas (Unicamp) and the University of São Paulo (USP) show that genetic sequences can have the same mathematical structure as the Error Correcting Codes (ECC) used in both broadcast and digital recording systems."

Interestingly the same mathematical correlations can be drawn between the structures of DNA and the Hebrew language. So I wonder how these concepts apply when, "Speaking something 'in faith'". Is this like a child reminding the Father of His own rules in order to get Him to make something come to pass? That seems to be what the Word teaches. He want us to remind Him of His Word.

1. There was darkness (Job speaks a lot about the darkness) and the LORD commanded there to be light and then separated it from the darkness. There was evening (called the darkness) and there was Morning (called the Light) and from the darkness into the light of morning was the first day. - Darkness into Light

Interesting. We could ponder how something could be created from Him and still be separate from Him. After all, it was by His instruction the Creation was formed. Yet it was shrouded in darkness- something we associate with evil, curses, lawlessness and death.

So what is Light? Oh! Right! It is the opposite of those principles. This is what is delineated in His instructions. In the beginning, Creation was formless and void. It was simply raw materials and it required His instruction before it could sustain order and life. Life cannot thrive without order, nor can it approach Him without demonstrating the sacrificial love that was necessary to create it in the first place. He gave of His knowledge to Create. He Gave of His understanding to bring about order. He gave of His wisdom to bring about life. So what is His wisdom? Sacrificial love. We must be able and willing to give it - in order to receive it.

2. The earth is still in the stage of nothing but water (And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters) God then creates a barrier to divide the waters, those forming heaven and those for the earth. And he called the waters above the firmament, heaven - Second day

I'm not sure about the earth being just water. The way I see it, the entirety of the periodic table was represented in matter. Instead, I believe that water covered it and permeated it throughout all of it's states of matter - including it's newly discovered quantum states.

This bears repeating: In my understanding, all things spiritual, either have or can be made manifest in a material state. All things material, either have or can be made manifest in a spiritual state. At the very least, they are closely related and share correlating principles.

3. Now he commanded that the waters under the firmament be gathered into ONE place and then for the dry ground to appear. The dry land he called earth and the gathering of waters (mikvah) seas. Now that the land and waters have been set apart from each other he calls the land to bring forth grasses, trees, and herbs. (these I believe the seeds were already in the earth awaiting the drying out, just like in Noach's day to sprout forth. - Third Day

"...gathered into ONE place...", As opposed to what? Another place? Just trying to understand why you have emphasized the word 'ONE'. I've always understood that to mean, 'making room' for the land beneath it to appear. I see that there is a correlation to the mikvah, but in the same sense of any 'living' waters (meaning waters that flow within the evaporative, condensing and flowing cycle that links it to the heavens). Is this what you mean?

4. Creation of Sun, Moon and stars to separate the Day from the Night (different than the darkness and Light) These were placed in the Firmament - 4th day

I don't see the difference except for how they are used; the second being a more detailed and specific use of the first.

5. He created the birds of the air and the creatures of the water - Then He blessed them and told them to be fruitful and multiply and fill them up. - Day 5

The distinction I made in my thematic comparison was that the creatures of the air are likewise creatures of the waters above. The other creatures mentioned are of the waters below.

6. The earth was then ordered to bring forth all other kinds of animals. The He said 'let us make a man in our image to rule over these creatures. So he made mankind, male and female and commanded to populate the earth. Also to have dominion over all his creation. He told them he had made for their (man, animals, birds) nourishment all the plant life for food.

It is worth noting that He was not mentioning these event in a chronological order as we know from Gen 2 the creatures were made after He created man. I can speculate as to why, but I'm not really sure.

7. God finished the work of re-creation, putting back to rights the aretz. Then he sealed it with a blessing, setting it apart from the other 6 days of doing so.

Re-creation? Hmmm. What to expand on that?

Ok, short nap and onto the next post.
Be well and be blessed!

 

[Lulav]

The reason I listed the days with my understanding is because I don't hold to the common understanding that Verse 1 is part of day 1.
That is where I am coming from when I comment on these things. It really doesn't matter I think as to your premise of Light, Water, seed.

But I will address your questions and comments.

His instruction the Creation was formed. Yet it was shrouded in darkness- something we associate with evil, curses, lawlessness and death.

Exactly, which is why I don't believe it was created that way.

In the beginning, Creation was formless and void.

No, as I said above, I don't believe that our GOD would create something imperfect, empty and void. Tohu v'bohu.
Tohu meaning formlessness, confusion, emptiness
Bohu - meaning emptiness. This word is used in Isaiah and Jeremiah and speaks of desolate emptiness.

Jeremiah 4 says

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form (tohu), and void (bohu); and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

There was no man but yet there must have been birds because he says they were fled. Without form and void and NO light.

It was simply raw materials and it required His instruction before it could sustain order and life. Life cannot thrive without order,

I agree and I do believe when He created the heavens and earth they were perfect and orderly as is all when he created them. But it was corrupted. To say he first created raw materials is verging on evolution to me and I don't subscribe to that, not saying you do but I don't hold to the raw materials idea.

I'm not sure about the earth being just water.

It wasn't just water, it was a earth flooded with water. You might want to take a read again through Gen 7-8. You might see what I mean and also see some more things that are in the field where you are looking.

Water, Sevens, Seeds.

"...gathered into ONE place...", As opposed to what? Another place? Just trying to understand why you have emphasized the word 'ONE'.

One place, meaning not what we have today, but one land mass and one water mass.

It is worth noting that He was not mentioning these event in a chronological order as we know from Gen 2 the creatures were made after He created man. I can speculate as to why, but I'm not really sure.

Yes, that is quite a conundrum. I've heard differing Ideas on it but wouldn't mind to hear yours if you're willing to share?

Re-creation? Hmmm. What to expand on that?

As I'm sure you've seen by now I believe he was putting things back to rights. We see that he doesn't create the plants and such but called them forth from the ground to grow.

 

[Yahudim]

I can see all that there. But I do have a couple of questions. Perhaps you could clarify #2 and #7
#2

• Brazen Laver An instrument of cleansing where the Waters are separated above from below

It was called 'the sea' if I remember correctly. By separated above from below are you speaking of the laver being below (on earth) and the firmament above?

Yes and no. Yes in that it can be considered an allusion to the waters separated on the second day of Creation. No in that it may not match in function. That isn't the point and those questions can wait for a more thorough examination. It appears to be similar in form and therefore a match in terms of a 'theme'.

I'm not an expert on statistics mind you, but just the fact that these things appear in a certain order, in certain places, etc., defies the likelihood of chance by many orders of magnitude. I'm not interpreting symbolism with the exception of demonstrating a relationship of a deliberate nature. This is the first step. Demonstrating that these correlations are deliberate. Deciphering the symbolism happens on the fly to some degree. But for the most part, the correlation of symbolism should be validated first.

#7

• The Mercy Seat A place of righteousness that brings judgement upon the wicked and brings mercy and Rest to His righteous Seed

I think that might be stretching the narrative a bit. The ark held the ketubah, Aaron's budded rod and the pot of manna. I would say that the manna represented the seed, the 'bread from heaven'.

You are talking about #6 the Ark. In that regard, these are valid observations. But #7 is The Mercy Seat that sits atop the Ark. It is a separate piece or furnishing and so the symbolism or theme should be considered seperately.

Please get rested and refreshed!

I'm trying...

 

[Yahudim]

@Lulav - You and I disagree concerning the events of the 1st day. I don't see that as a deal-breaker in regard to the premise of this thread. Should you wish to discuss this further, perhaps a new thread might be best. I will participate as time allows.

 

[Lulav]

Sorry Phil, didn't mean to make it a rabbit trail or to derail, it's just that this was the foundation of your premise so I thought I needed to clarify how I saw those seven events.

Carry on when you can. Happy Late Sukkot!

 

[Yahudim]

Sorry Phil, didn't mean to make it a rabbit trail or to derail, it's just that this was the foundation of your premise so I thought I needed to clarify how I saw those seven events.

Carry on when you can. Happy Late Sukkot!

No problem. I know that and understand completely. This is indeed a topic worthy of investigation. However, there is no clear demarcation in scripture AND the the establishment of the Who and What of creation in seminal to 1st Day narrative.

The Light/Dark, Good/Evil, Blessing/Curses, Life/Death dichotomy is directly connected to the Who and What of creation and related to the 1st Day narrative and every other 1st that we've discussed. If I understand you correctly, you think that the 1st 7 words of the Creation narrative is separate and distinct from the 7 Days of Creation. Whether it is or isn't (and I'm not saying that it is), it is nonetheless foundational to the same. So I think dissecting this has little to do with how I intend to proceed.

 

[Yahudim]

One thing that comes to mind is Rev 11 which it talks about the outer court and the measurement of the temple. The temple services remind me of the spiritual growth of the believer. In the outer court, the sacrifice for sin is performed. Yeshua was not sacrificed as our Lamb of God in the temple but outside the temple area, it was way out on Golgotha. Known as a place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha. Golgotha's Hebrew equivalent would be Gulgōleṯ (גֻּלְגֹּלֶת, "skull"), ultimately from the verb galal (גלל) meaning "to roll". If that isn't predictive, "Heads will roll".

Hebrew is a very denominative language.

The outer temple activities are all performed on earth, that includes the services and the prophecies related to it. Every article in the outer temple courtyard is about activities we are to do on earth, from washing our hands, cleansing our behavior (lavar), and sacrificing for sins, cleansing our hearts and thoughts (altar). It is prophetic that those believers that remain in the vicious cycle of outer temple services are in the last days mass slaughtered.

I know this is not the direction you may have wanted this thread to go, but it is the insight I found.

Not sure how I view the whole, "outer temple activities are all performed on earth", assessment. It is after all a replica of the heavenly. But then again, this is a test based on loving obedience. Have to think on that awhile. Definitely a worthy thought though.

 

[Yahudim]

Hi Phil, hope things are going well for you and family.

I was just replying to another thread and thought about your 7's, do you think this might fit in?

I was saying how I see this not as something that was what to say, but an outline of the order to pray. I broke it down and at the end added a numbered list. It happened it came out to 8 things but #8 'circled back' to #1

Just a thought, see what you think.

Master, teach us to pray......

1. Address: Our Father
2. Location: Who is in Heaven
3. Reverence: Holy is your name
4. First order of prayerful request: Your Kingdom come, Your will be done in earth as in Heaven
5. Personal requests: Give us this day our daily bread ( be reliant upon him to provide each day just like in the wilderness with the manna) Also this refers to the manna from heaven, Jesus himself.
6. Loving our neighbor and how forgiveness works - only God/Jesus can forgive sins ---And forgive us our trespasses - in the same manner as we forgive those who trespass against us.
7. Request for spiritual protection - Lead us not into temptation - rescue us from evil
8. Back to the Lord God - in praise and worship - For thine is the kingdom, and the power and the glory forever. Amein

Question: Wasn't the last line presumed to be added? Can't find the citations, but I know I have studied that topic at one point.

 

[Lulav]

No, as I said above, I don't believe that our GOD would create something imperfect, empty and void. Tohu v'bohu.
Tohu meaning formlessness, confusion, emptiness
Bohu - meaning emptiness. This word is used in Isaiah and Jeremiah and speaks of desolate emptiness.

I agree and I do believe when He created the heavens and earth they were perfect and orderly as is all when he created them. But it was corrupted. To say he first created raw materials is verging on evolution to me and I don't subscribe to that, not saying you do but I don't hold to the raw materials idea.

1 Cor
For God is not the author of confusion, .....

 

[Lulav]

Question: Wasn't the last line presumed to be added? Can't find the citations, but I know I have studied that topic at one point.

Catholic Church doesn't use it, Protestant ones do. It's a bit convoluted but here is more info.

Is the Doxology of the Lord’s Prayer in Matthew 6:13 a Late Addition?​

 

[Yahudim]

1 Cor
For God is not the author of confusion, .....

Isaiah 45:7, KJV, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”
Amos 3:6, “Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?”

Dear Sister @Lulav

We can speculate all day about scripture taken out of context. We can hurl verses at each other ad infinitum. But without context, we have no way of knowing the difference between a pretext and a prooftext.

In my estimation, we must read all of 1 Corinthians 13 and14 just to get an inkling of the meaning of 1 Cor 14:33; with that said, it appears to be instruction on how to discern the word of a false prophet.

We are in school and the Father and His Son are the only arbiters of absolute Truth. Yet we are to be tested and tried. What is more, we live in a cursed world and the test is pass/fail.

Darkness is likened to ignorance of and/or disobedience to His Spirit, His Truth and His Right Rulings. It is analogous to sin, evil, lawlessness, curses, etc., as it is written in the scriptures. Just because He creates darkness does not mean that He is darkness and all that it entails. Darkness is the absence of His Light. Confusion is the absence, obscuring or twisting of His knowledge, understanding, wisdom, Truth and Right Rulings for the purpose of promoting evil over His Goodness and Lovingkindness.

The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is a prime example of what I mean. I hope this helps.

In His Love,