REVELATION 9:6 "MEN WILL BE SEEKING THE DEATH, DEATH IS FLEEING FROM THEM" 70AD SIEGE FAMINE?

[LittleLambofJesus]

This is an interesting verse in Revelation.
Is this a worldwide scene or local to a particular city or country?
Discuss........I voted for option 1

Revelation 9:6
And in those days the men shall be seeking the death, and not no shall be finding it;
and they shall be desiring/yearning<1937> epithymeō> to be dying, and the death is fleeing from them.

Revelation shows a form of <1939> concerning the "great City":

Revelation 18:
14 ‘And the fruits of the desire<1939> epithymia> of Thy soul did depart from Thee, and all things — the dainty and the bright — did depart from Thee, and no more at all mayest Thou find them.
19 and they did cast dust upon their heads, and were crying out, weeping and sorrowing, saying, Woe, woe, the great City!
in which were made rich all having ships in the sea, out of her costliness — for in one hour was She made waste.



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[mark kennedy]

The children of perdition will suffer this judgment, specifically the armies of the antichrist.

 

[HTacianas]

This is an interesting verse in Revelation.
Is this a worldwide scene or local to a particular city or country?
Discuss........

Revelation 9:6
And in those days the men shall seeking the death, and not no shall be finding it;
and they shall be desiring/yearning<1937 epithymeō> to be dying, and the death is fleeing from them.

1937. epithumeo ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o from 1909 and 2372;
to set the heart upon, i.e. long for (rightfully or otherwise):--covet, desire, would fain, lust (after).
1939. epithumia ep-ee-thoo-mee'-ah from 1937;
a longing (especially for what is forbidden):--concupiscence, desire, lust (after).

Revelation shows a form of that word concerning the "great City":

Revelation 18:
14 ‘And the fruits of the desire<1939 epithymia> of Thy soul did depart from Thee, and all things — the dainty and the bright — did depart from Thee,
and no more at all mayest Thou find them.
19 and they did cast dust upon their heads, and were crying out, weeping and sorrowing, saying, Woe, woe, the great City!
in which were made rich all having ships in the sea, out of her costliness — for in one hour was She made waste.



.

They sought death for five months and their pain was the pain of a scorpion sting.

In Mithraic iconography Mithra is portrayed slaying a bull. A scorpion is shown stinging the bull's testicles. The sting is not to inflict pain, but to sap the bull of his strength.

The five months of pain were inflicted on the inhabitants of Jerusalem by way of famine during the five month siege of by the Romans, many of whom were Mithraists. The starvation felt by the Jews so sapped them of their strength they preferred death over life but death escaped them

 

[alsughasoughaiuyfygh]

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[Dave-W]

This is an interesting verse in Revelation.
Is this a worldwide scene or local to a particular city or country?
Discuss........

It was pretty standard understanding to be part of the “Great Tribulation” of 7 year during the reign of antichrist. No one would be able to be saved or to die.

The movie “Thief in the Night” did an interesting take on it, the leading character is trying to escape the antichrist army and she jumps over a dam to kill herself. Then she wakes up to the alarm going off and the news report on the radio says millions of people had just disappeared ....

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

They sought death for five months and their pain was the pain of a scorpion sting.

In Mithraic iconography Mithra is portrayed slaying a bull. A scorpion is shown stinging the bull's testicles. The sting is not to inflict pain, but to sap the bull of his strength.

The five months of pain were inflicted on the inhabitants of Jerusalem by way of famine during the five month siege of by the Romans, many of whom were Mithraists. The starvation felt by the Jews so sapped them of their strength they preferred death over life but death escaped them

Thank you for that info.
Revelation 9:5 does mention 5 months and that is how long it took for Titus to demolish Jerusalem
and is also the amount of time the flood of Noah covered the earth [Jesus mentions that event in Matthew and Luke]:

Genesis 7:24
And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days.

Mat 24:38
“For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage,
until the day that Noah entered the ark,
Luk 17:27
“They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
and the flood came and destroyed them all.

Revelation 9:5
And was given to them that not they should be killing them, but that they should be being tormented five months
And the torment of them as torment of a scorpion, whenever it should be striking a man

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

...............This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A.D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months, the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.
Before their final demolition, however, Titus took a survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"

Jer 47:2
Thus says the LORD:
“Behold, waters rise out of the north, And shall be an overflowing flood;
They shall overflow the land[Judea/Israel] and all that is in it,
The City[Jerusalem] and those who dwell within;
Then the men shall cry, And all the inhabitants of the land shall wail.

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[Sanoy]

I have been wondering about the description of these human headed flying scorpions and the Girtablilu that according to ANE beliefs guard the doors of the underworld (Abyss). Here is one version of their iconography.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This could possibly be transhumanist technology backfiring on those during the Tribulation. They achieved eternal life without God so they suffer judgement that makes them want to die but unable to.

Interesting stuff.

What is your and/or others' view concerning the "gehenna" and the "lake of fire", which are both Hebrew symbolism found in the Hebrew OT scriptures.

Is the "GEHENNA" of Matt 23:33 the "LAKE OF FIRE" in Revelation? Poll thread

Matthew 23:33
'Serpents! brood of vipers!
how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna?

Revelation 14:11
And the Smoke of the tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.......

............................

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[LittleLambofJesus]

Revelation 9:6
And in those days the men shall seeking the death, and not no shall be finding it;
and they shall be desiring/yearning<1937 epithymeō> to be dying, and the death is fleeing from them.

This verse has the Roman denari and appears to denote the famine that ocurred during the 70ad Roman siege of Jerusalem

Revelation 6
6 And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of wheat a denari and three choinex of barleys a denari,
and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring"."
8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him.
And power was given to them over a fourth of the land, to kill with sword, with famine, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.

Matthew 24:19
“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those, the days!
Mark 13:17
“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
Luke 21:23
“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.

Luk 23:28
29 “For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, wombs that never bore, and breasts which never nursed!’

The fulfillment in 70ad:

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.
The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen.
In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ;.............................

At the recital of this melancholy and affecting occurrence, the whole city stood aghast, and poured forth their congratulations on those whom death had hurried away from such heartrending scenes.

Revelation 9:6
And in those days the men shall seeking the death, and not no shall be finding it;
and they shall be desiring/yearning<1937 epithymeō> to be dying, and the death is fleeing from them.

And this verse showing the 70ad famine and vengeance on 1st century Jerusalem

Revelation 18:8
“Thru this shall be arriving the blows of Her, death and mourning and famine
And in fire She shall be being burned, for strong is the Lord God the One judging Her.

Eze 12:16
“But I will spare a few of their men from the sword, from famine, and from pestilence, that they may declare all their abominations among the Gentiles wherever they go. Then they shall know that I am the LORD.”
Eze 14:21
For thus says the Lord GOD: “How much more it shall be when I send My four severe judgments on Jerusalem—the sword and famine and wild beasts and pestilence—to cut off man and beast from it?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This is the first time I ever noticed this was the 1 and only place in the Gospels "romans" is used........This is mind blowing!

Little did they know that 40yrs later, it would become reality........

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"romans" occurs 6 times in 6 verses in the NKJV.

John 11:48
If-ever we should be letting Him thus, all shall be believing into Him and shall be coming<ἐλεύσονται 2064> the Romans
and they shall be taking away of Us and the Place/topon <5117> and the Nation.

48 ἐὰν ἀφῶμεν αὐτὸν οὕτως, πάντες πιστεύσουσιν εἰς αὐτόν, καὶ ἐλεύσονται οἱ Ῥωμαῖοι καὶ ἀροῦσιν ἡμῶν καὶ τὸν τόπον καὶ τὸ ἔθνος.

I decided to look up where the exact form of #2064 was used and behold!
The famous 70ad Jerusalem/Temple Discourse.

Luk 21:6 -
“These things which you see—the days shall be coming/<ἐλεύσονται 2064 in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.”

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[LittleLambofJesus]

Any more views on whether Revelation 9:6?

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.........[Ezekiel 22:11-22]...............................

............Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive. The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen.
In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ; ............At the recital of this melancholy and affecting occurrence, the whole city stood aghast, and poured forth their congratulations on those whom death had hurried away from such heartrending scenes. Indeed, humanity at once shudders and sickens at the narration, nor can any one of the least sensibility reflect upon the pitiable condition to which the female part of the inhabitants of Jerusalem must at this time have been reduced,
===========================================
Luke 21:23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.

Revelation 9:6 And in those days the men shall seeking the death, and not no shall be finding it;
and shall be yearning<1937> to be dying, and the death is fleeing from them.

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[LittleLambofJesus]

I have been wondering about the description of these human headed flying scorpions and the Girtablilu that according to ANE beliefs guard the doors of the underworld (Abyss). Here is one version of their iconography.

Hmmm..........

Scorpion man - Wikipedia

Scorpion men are featured in several Akkadian language myths, including the Enûma Elish and the Babylonian version of the Epic of Gilgamesh. They were also known as aqrabuamelu or girtablilu. The Scorpion Men are described to have the head, torso, and arms of a man and the body of a scorpion.

They were first created by Tiamat in order to wage war against the younger gods for the betrayal of her mate Apsu. In the Epic of Gilgamesh, they stand guard outside the gates of the sun god Shamash at the mountains of Mashu. These give entrance to Kurnugi, the land of darkness. The scorpion men open the doors for Shamash as he travels out each day, and close the doors after him when he returns to the underworld at night. They also warn travellers of the danger that lies beyond their post. Their heads touch the sky, their "terror is awesome" and their "glance is death". This meeting of Gilgameš, on his way to Ūta-napišti, with the Scorpion-folk guarding the entrance to the tunnel is described in Iškār Gilgāmeš, tablet IX, lines 47–81.[1]

 

[Sanoy]

Hmmm..........

Scorpion man - Wikipedia

Scorpion men are featured in several Akkadian language myths, including the Enûma Elish and the Babylonian version of the Epic of Gilgamesh. They were also known as aqrabuamelu or girtablilu. The Scorpion Men are described to have the head, torso, and arms of a man and the body of a scorpion.

They were first created by Tiamat in order to wage war against the younger gods for the betrayal of her mate Apsu. In the Epic of Gilgamesh, they stand guard outside the gates of the sun god Shamash at the mountains of Mashu. These give entrance to Kurnugi, the land of darkness. The scorpion men open the doors for Shamash as he travels out each day, and close the doors after him when he returns to the underworld at night. They also warn travellers of the danger that lies beyond their post. Their heads touch the sky, their "terror is awesome" and their "glance is death". This meeting of Gilgameš, on his way to Ūta-napišti, with the Scorpion-folk guarding the entrance to the tunnel is described in Iškār Gilgāmeš, tablet IX, lines 47–81.[1]

Iconography is very stylized, but I was able to link each description in Revelation with the Iconography here. I still don't know what to make of it, but it's hard to believe there is a correlation, when there is a correlation to the 7 headed beast here. (Notice the lion heads, and leopard spots and wounded head) It's also crazy to see the same apkallu show up in south America. The depiction is of "Lotan" from which we also get the Hebrew word Leviathan with vowels added. The vertical strips are not tails, I don't know what they are but I have seen them I think on Ishtar, but in any case on something that would not have a tail. (If I had to guess I'd go with streams of water)

 

[Bobber]

It was pretty standard understanding to be part of the “Great Tribulation” of 7 year during the reign of antichrist. No one would be able to be saved or to die.

The movie “Thief in the Night” did an interesting take on it, the leading character is trying to escape the antichrist army and she jumps over a dam to kill herself. Then she wakes up to the alarm going off and the news report on the radio says millions of people had just disappeared ....

I remember when that movie came out in the late 70's. Churches everywhere it and I'd say it made a great impact. I know so many the predominate thing on their mind was not to be left behind and so many would say they had dreams about the rapture. Even though I don't hold to some of the ideas of a pre-trib rapture I do think Thief in the Night did draw many into a commitment to the Lord. They did do some sequels at that time, have copies of them all but the one which was most compelling to watch was the first, as it is many times with things. To know what I'm meaning the secular film Star Wars. IMO the best one every made was the first one the all, "A New Hope" and they should have just left it at that.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It was pretty standard understanding to be part of the “Great Tribulation” of 7 year during the reign of antichrist. No one would be able to be saved or to die.

The movie “Thief in the Night” did an interesting take on it, the leading character is trying to escape the antichrist army and she jumps over a dam to kill herself. Then she wakes up to the alarm going off and the news report on the radio says millions of people had just disappeared ....

Or it's like someone making a wish to live forever then the next day they fall down a flight of stairs and end up paraplegic and in a wheelchair for the rest of the days...........

 

[TribulationSigns]

Another unbiblical interpretation by Little Lamb by taking a verse, Revelation 9:6, out of context and try to apply to situation in Jerusalem in 70AD.

 

[_Dave_]

Taking Revelation literally, as I do when the literal is intended, the episode in the OP takes place after the fifth angel blows the trumpet. This is during the seven years of tribulation, and affects the whole world, but only those who do not have the seal of God on their forehead.

As mentioned here in previous posts, there are past events that serve as types to this singular future end times event. But those past events shouldn't be construed to being the event mentioned in Revelation 9.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So far, only 2 souls have voted 70ad.........Any Preterists around?

Dave-W said: ↑
It was pretty standard understanding to be part of the “Great Tribulation” of 7 year during the reign of antichrist. No one would be able to be saved or to die.

The movie “Thief in the Night” did an interesting take on it, the leading character is trying to escape the antichrist army and she jumps over a dam to kill herself. Then she wakes up to the alarm going off and the news report on the radio says millions of people had just disappeared ....

Taking Revelation literally, as I do when the literal is intended, the episode in the OP takes place after the fifth angel blows the trumpet. This is during the seven years of tribulation, and affects the whole world, but only those who do not have the seal of God on their forehead.

As mentioned here in previous posts, there are past events that serve as types to this singular future end times event. But those past events shouldn't be construed to being the event mentioned in Revelation 9.

Hello Dave.
Why can't it be the 7 yrs tribulation of the 1st century Jewish Wars leading up to the Wrath of 70ad Jerusalem?

Matthew 24:19
Woe yet to those pregnant,
and to those giving suck in those the days
Mark 13:17
Woe yet to those pregnant,
and to those giving suck in those the days
Luke 21:23
Woe yet to those pregnant,
and to those giving suck in those the days
for there shall be great distress on the land and wrath on this people;

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70
========================
When and where is Revelation 9:6 ocurring?

1. 
   1s century Judea/Jerusalem, Israel
   2 vote(s)
   25.0%
2. Future Jerusalem Israel
   0 vote(s)
   0.0%
3. Future Rome Italy
   0 vote(s)
   0.0%
4. The whole future global world
   3 vote(s)
   37.5%
5. I don't know but am willing to learn
   2 vote(s)
   25.0%
6. Other
   1 vote(s)
   12.5%

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Any other views on this passage? Thanks

Revelation 9:6
And in those days the men shall be seeking the death, and not no shall be finding it;
and they shall be desiring/yearning<1937> epithymeō> to be dying, and the death is fleeing from them.
======================
Expositor's Greek Testament

Revelation 9:6. The withholding of death, instead of being an alleviation, is really a refinement of torture; so infernal is the pain, that the sufferers crave, but crave in vain, for death (Sibyll. iii. 208: καὶ καλέσουσι καλόν τὸ θανεῖν καὶ φεύξετʼ ἀπʼ αὐτῶν). It is singular that suicide is never contemplated, although it was widely prevalent at this period in certain circles of the Empire (see Merivale’s Romans under the Empire, ch. 64; Lecky’s Europ. Morals, i. 212 f.). For its un-Jewish character see Jos. Bell. iii. 8.5.

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
6. shall flee] Lit. fleeth.Pulpit CommentaryVerse 6. - And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them; shall in no wise find it... and death fleeth from them (Revised Version); οἱ ἄνθρωποι, "the men;" that is, the unsealed, who suffer this judgment. This is a characteristic biblical method of expressing great anguish. Thus Job 3:20, 21, "The bitter in soul; which long for death, but it cometh not" (cf. also Jeremiah 8:3; Job 7:15; Luke 23:30; and Revelation 6:16). The description portrays great anguish of mind, and should not be pressed to a literal interpretation, though many have illustrated the passage by pointing to actual occurrences of the kind.