Revelation 6 through 22 : Discuss

Revealing Times

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Revelations put in order and explained: Revelation chapters 6 to Rev. 22


John is in the Spirit in Heaven seeing future events. The judgments of the Lamb are followed by the trumpet judgments then the vials of wrath judgments. These events are judging Babylon the World Government System(s) that puts men before God and enslaves/conquers Gods chosen people Israel. Revelation 12 where Satan is cast down happens in this same time period, the Anti-Christ is possessed by Satan and then the proposed peace this evil tyrant has offered turns into perilous times as never seen before, which Jesus and Daniel foretold would happen.


This Anti-Christ will then go forth to conquer, chapter 13 tells of this Beast arising out of the Sea which means and has always meant in biblical terms, that he is a Gentile leader. His partner, the False Prophet arises out of the Land, which has always meant in biblical terms that he is a Jewish individual. The False Prophet no doubt gets Israel to make peace, meaning to accept the Security of this Man of Sin/Anti-Christ. He will then no doubt turn against them at the 42 month mark. This is when he goes forth to conquer as chapter six implies. All of these chapters are different events happening at the same time or pretty close in time, hence I am conjoining them together on purpose.


I think the wrath of the Lamb is the Lord Jesus allowing the Anti-Christ to come forth and harm the world via murder, enslavement, dictatorship etc., in the first Four Seals. The Sixth Seal is an action by God/Jesus, but all are the Lambs Wrath he allows them to happen or causes them to come to pass. Then comes the trumpet judgments, Rev. 8 says that an Angel stood before the alter of God with the incense or prayers from the Saints of God, I think this is where the two-witnesses pray down plagues upon mankind. The Angel took the prayers, mingled with fire, and cast them upon the Earth !! Then came the plagues. A third of the trees and all the grasses were burned up, a third of the seas turned to blood, a third of the creatures died, a third of the waters were poisoned, an asteroid hits the earth, the sun, moon and stars are darkened, because of all the smoke no doubt. Then comes the three Woes which end the reign of mankind and begins the reign of God with his seven quick staccato style Vials of Wrath. Babylon has Fallen, has Fallen !!


The first Woe is Rev. 9:1, the release of a demon horde led by Apollyon, they are given the power to hurt and maim but not to kill the men who do not have the Seal of God in their forehead. The next Woe is a 200 million army of God led by four Angels, they are given the power to slay a third part of mankind with fire, smoke and brimstone. These wear the exact Breastplates the High Priests wore, and Rev. 9:20 says And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils. These were plagues of God no doubt.


During this time, Israel has been in hiding in the Wilderness, protected by God (Rev. 12) since the Anti-Christ turned on them. Christians who became Christians after the rapture are being beheaded for their faith in Jesus Christ. Those beheaded are the Saints under the alter in Seal number five, they are given a white garment and told to wait until their fellow-servants would be slain just as they were, they were asking for vengeance on those people living on earth who beheaded them. Satan could not get at Israel (Woman in Rev. 12) so he went after the remnant of her Seed (Jesus is the Seed) so the remnant that was left was the Christians who became Christians after the rapture. Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant (small part that's left) of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Christians)


Chapter 10 is mysterious because John was commanded not to write the things he heard the seven thunders utter. But the Angel swore to John, by God, one thing, that when the seventh angel or trumpet sounded, time would be no more (Rev. 10:6-7) and when he Sounded, the Mystery of God would be finished. I think this means mans time is up after the Seventh Trumpet Sounds, God will then reign (SHOWN BELOW) and bring forth His Vials of Wrath in quick staccato fashion. BOOM, BOOM, BOOM all seven Vials will come forth very fast, there will be no more waiting, no more time intervals like in Rev. 9:5 where the Demon horde was given five months to maim mankind. Rev. 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months:



Chapter 11 of course is the Two-Witnesses, Daniel chapter 12 also speaks about these two who stand on different sides of the river. The angel there also swears to Daniel, by God, about the time of mans reign ending after 42 months when asked by Daniel how long it would be. But then in Daniel 12 we are told about a 1290 day period and a 1335 day period. Daniel was told that the 1290 day period is how long this age will last after the daily sacrifice is taken away. ( NOT WHAT YOU MAY THINK ) In my opinion this is when Elijah turns Israel back to God. Thirty Days before the Anti-Christ starts going crazy, Elijah, one of the Two-Witnesses is sent to turn Israel back to their Messiah Jesus Christ, ( maybe longer, but they are only turned to God 30 days before the Anti-Christ turns violent/crazy ) thus the daily sacrifice is taken away, they now have Jesus, Israel does not need a daily Sacrifice. (Zechariah 13:1, a fountain is opened unto Israel for Sins and Uncleanness) So Elijah is given 1260 Days to Witness, but he starts this before the Anti-Christs 42 month reign of terror begins, so when he is killed and raised up to heaven, this in my opinion is when the Seventh Trumpet sounds, and mans reign is over, God declares that He is now in charge, and via His wrath he begins destroying Babylon (the Last Gov System or the Seventh Head of the Beast). The Anti-Christ has 30 days left before he is locked in the bottomless pit.


Malachi 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. ( Before the Day of the Lord or Judgment Day God sends Elijah to turn Israel back to God, and Daniels 70th Week Decree is Fulfilled. )




Now the final Woe !! Rev. 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. The Vials of Gods Wrath are forthcoming, God has taken control, there will be no more time intervals, boom, boom, boom, Gods judgment against Babylon will be fast and sure (she is destroyed in one-hour). Babylon is now inhabited by devils, the horde that was released in Trumpet number five and Satan himself was cast down. And the nations were angry that the time of Gods wrath had come. Chapter 14 tells us of Jesus landing on Mount Zion with the 144,000 and an Angel announcing Babylon has Fallen, has Fallen. Chapters 17 and 18 is only a more in depth explanation of the Two Entities of Babylon that falls, the Harlot is the False Religion side that is destroyed by the Kings in league with the Anti-Christ who want the Anti-Christ to be worshiped as the ONLY GOD, so all False Religion is destroyed (Islam and others), Christians are also beheaded and Jews are chased into the wilderness, the Jews are now mostly Christians in reality. But God uses the Anti-Christ and his Kings to Judge the Harlot. (Revelation 17), they destroy and burn her. (False Religion is Judged, Islam is destroyed) Now in Rev. 18, the judgment of Babylon by God is Gods plagues against the Last Gov. System or World Order, (Seventh Head of the Beast) the Seals and Trumpets are the Lambs Wrath and the Saints/Two Witnesses prayers that prays down Plagues. The last seven Vials are of course Gods Wrath being poured out. These final seven plagues are the final Woe !!


The Seven Final Plagues or Vials: Notice they happen fast, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, I think this all happens in like a 30 Day Period. The First Vial/Plague is poured out, and grievous sores come upon all who has the Mark of the Beast. The Second Vial is poured out and the Sea turns as the blood of a dead man, and every living soul therein dies. The Third Vial, all the drinking water becomes Blood. The Fourth Vial depletes the ozone and men get scorched by the Sun. The Fifth Vial is poured out upon the Seat of the Beast (Babylon) and it turns Dark, and men curse God for their pain, but still repented not. (They hate God and hate Israel, so they are willing to come against Israel to spite God) The Sixth Vial was poured out and the Euphrates River was dried up, preparing the way of those nations angry with Israel to try and attack them and destroy them forever. (Not a 200 Million Horseman Army, that is Rev. 9 not Rev. 16) The False Prophet, Anti-Christ and Dragon send forth Three Evil Spirits, to entice mankind into war against Israel at Armageddon, but it is Jesus they will be fighting, Rev. 19, is the Saints coming back from the Marriage to the Lamb in Heaven, to fight those evil tyrants and to bring to an end the Evil Babylon Gov. System. ( I will be there, Amen.)


The Final Vial is Poured out. And a voice from Heaven says "It is Done" A great earthquake like never before shakes the earth. Rev. 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. ( Notices the CITIES of the NATIONS ? Plural, Babylon is all the World that is being judged, all men who took the Mark of the Beast, the last Great Gov. System is being Judged. God remembered Babylon, this is why it is called Babylon, God sees all False Religion and False Governments as Babylon. It reminds him from whence it was Birthed !! )


20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.


Rev. 17 and 18, as I stated before is only a more detailed account of what is FINISHED here in Rev. 16. (It is Done) Just like Genesis chapters one and two are kind of the same but different, one is the Creation of the universe, the other is the telling of Mans creation in further detail. So the next event is really Rev. 19 and Jesus returning with the/us Saints, even though that is described somewhat by Jesus and the 144,000 landing on Mt. Zion . Jesus returns and destroys the wicked with the sword of his mouth (Holy Spirit) he casts Satan into the bottomless pit for 1000 years and Judges and casts the False Prophet and Anti-Christ into Hell. The rest of Revelation is self explanatory, after a 1000 year reign Satan is loosed, then Jesus/God destroys him and the rest of the rebellion with fire, judges them, and casts them into the Lake of Fire where the Anti-Christ and False Prophet are waiting. Then New Jerusalem comes down, we live in a beautiful new world, for ever and ever with our Lord Jesus Christ. AMEN !! Glory to God.

All reply's welcomed.
 

Straightshot

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I like you overall presentation and would agree with much of your rendering .... great job!!!

I could offer a few brief adjustments if you like .... these may enhance your views

All of Revelation's unfolding reflects the things "here after" ..... things still to come as we speak

No specific order of topic, but a few things I would suggest for you to consider and research with your study of the prophetic scriptures

MBG [the woman] is the Lord's view of the entire world that has refused to believe the truth about Him

From Babel to MBG at the time of the end amd she has a "great city" at her core that is dominating the other cities of the world in many ways [use the USA as a model for evaluation]

This "great city" [civilization] will be destroyed in one day at the beginning of the tribulation period and this will through the entire world out of its current standing causing great upheaval among the other cities of the nations

There will be no new world order as some think, but world disorder as a result of the "great citie's" abrupt calamity

It will be Satan's beast in the human little horn [who some call the "antichrist"] of Daniel's visions and his 10 othe kings who destroy the "reat city" in one day

Do not confuse the seals of the scroll containing the judments with the actual tribulation events which will not open until all of the seals have been removed .... the seals are a preview of and signify the prevalent conditions of the coming tribulation

Satan's beast in the human little horn will not bring peace, but only war and destruction ... the covenant confirmed in Daniel 9:24 is the Lord confirming His covenant with Israel during the tribulation

His beast Abaddon/apollyon dules over 7 Middle Eatern Kingdoms for Satan .... 5 are historical and 2 are pending, one after the other

This beast is currently imprisoned in the abyss and the opening is under the ocean close to the Middle East and Satan will be allowed to release Abaddon to rule again over the same region
 
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Revealing Times

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I like you overall presentation and would agree with much of your rendering .... great job!!!

I could offer a few brief adjustments if you like .... these may enhance your views
Sorry, been watching some old Film Noir movies this afternoon. All replies are welcome. I am more than happy to discuss anything, I am not arrogant enough to think I am 100 percent right on everything, this is just my study of Revelation, and my understanding, which is subject to correction, much of this has been trial and error, as the Holy Spirit leads, my opinions give way to His.

All of Revelation's unfolding reflects the things "here after" ..... things still to come as we speak
I understand this concept, but I try not to fall into the trap of being to all-in/matter of fact because of one sentence or passage. Rev. 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; ( This verse never says that everything he has seen is hereafter, it says in our English, 1. Write what you have seen. 2. Write the things which are (now). 3. And Write the these that are in the future. (This is three different commands. Write what you have seen, what is now, and what shall come in the future.)

MBG [the woman] is the Lord's view of the entire world that has refused to believe the truth about Him

From Babel to MBG at the time of the end amd she has a "great city" at her core that is dominating the other cities of the world in many ways [use the USA as a model for evaluation]

This "great city" [civilization] will be destroyed in one day at the beginning of the tribulation period and this will through the entire world out of its current standing causing great upheaval among the other cities of the nations

There will be no new world order as some think, but world disorder as a result of the "great citie's" abrupt calamity

We are aligned on the first sentence. I do not, like many do no doubt, think this is an actual city. I think God is referring the Seven Kingdoms that have enslaved or conquered Israel and is applying the name Babylon to this political entity. Babylon is known more as a city than a country. Thus its called Babylon. I also think one day and one hour are just cryptic lingo for sudden destruction. The "Day of the Lord" is a 3 1/2 year period of wrath. YOM in the bible doesn't have to mean day, it can mean a period of time, amongst about 50 other things. There will be a Last Beast System, I have no clue if its worldwide or not. I suspect it will be.

==================================================================

As per Apollyon, it very well could be Apollyon, but I am just going with Satan, because Apollyon will take orders from Satan, and Satan means adversary, so it works out both ways.
 
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iamlamad

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In chapter one, we can easily understand John was alive. In chapter 20, we can understand it is over a thousand years into OUR future. So it makes sense, somewhere between these two extremes of time, is where we are NOW.

This place in Revelation - where we are NOW - is not too hard to find. The 5th seal, those martyrs of the church age, are still being added daily. But the 6th seal is the cataclysmic start of the Day of the Lord, still future. We are then, and have been since John, waiting between the 5th and 6th seal in Revelation. As you said, John would write some history, some of "now" or things present in time with his life then, and of course, future events. We need to study and wait on the Lord to discover which is which. For example, the vision of the throne room, chapter 4, shows a throne room at a time BEFORE Jesus rose from the dead. Then in chapter 5 He has risen and ascends back to heaven.

In spite of what many say here, John was VERY careful with chronology. Except for his parentheses, John's narrative is in perfect order of events as they will take place.
 
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Straightshot

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The things that have been were historical in John's day, the things that are "now" from John's day going forward represent the Lord's dispensation of His grace still on going as we speak

However, all of the things "hereafter" are still pending and have not yet come

All of Revelation's unfolding after Revelation 4:1 are still pending including the seal portents and the events of the coming tribulation

John first sees events in heaven including the pre-tribulation immortals of his true ecclesia [Revelation 4; 5]

Then come the portents of the coming tribulation events [Revelation 6]

Next he sees the sealing of the 144000 of Israel upon the earth [Revelation 7:1-8 .... then the view switches back to heaven giving more details of the pre-tribulation ecclesia [Revelation 7:9-17]

Then the actual tribulation events begin in chapter 8

And there are only two reach backs of significant historical events giving overview recorded in Revelation's unfolding [Revelation 12:4-5; 17:8-11]
 
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Revealing Times

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In chapter one, we can easily understand John was alive. In chapter 20, we can understand it is over a thousand years into OUR future. So it makes sense, somewhere between these two extremes of time, is where we are NOW.
That would no doubt have to be correct.

This place in Revelation - where we are NOW - is not too hard to find. The 5th seal, those martyrs of the church age, are still being added daily. But the 6th seal is the cataclysmic start of the Day of the Lord, still future. We are then, and have been since John, waiting between the 5th and 6th seal in Revelation. As you said, John would write some history, some of "now" or things present in time with his life then, and of course, future events. We need to study and wait on the Lord to discover which is which. For example, the vision of the throne room, chapter 4, shows a throne room at a time BEFORE Jesus rose from the dead. Then in chapter 5 He has risen and ascends back to heaven.
Hello brother. imho, this is why understanding the timing of the Rapture is so important, I am not one to dog others about their beliefs, but Satan's A-1 job is to try and confuse us, and he will never cease until he is locked in the pit. When the tribulation is happening, Christians are in Heaven, marrying the Lamb. Those Christian Saints under the alter who were beheaded, are those five virgins types Jesus spoke of, who were not ready when the Bridegroom called to them. They had sin manifest in their lives, Jesus was not number one in their lives etc. etc. Some may have never been Christians but came to Christ after their loved ones died (we will all die when we are Raptured) all at the same times as millions of other Christians died. We can not take these corrupt bodies to Heaven, we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.

So see how misdiagnosing the Rapture can throw everything out of whack ? That is if course my belief, I am not going to dog anyone's belief, but it can change the whole understanding(s) of timings. The first Seas can then be the Anti-Christ, as can the second seal, third seal and fourth seal. Then the Saints are Remembered by God, and told to wait a while. Notice they want vengeance on those people "ON EARTH" who beheaded them. They were all killed during the Tribulation.
 
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Revealing Times

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In spite of what many say here, John was VERY careful with chronology. Except for his parentheses, John's narrative is in perfect order of events as they will take place.

I am going to try and determine when the Halfway point of Tribulation happens in every chapter, you see, many of these visions/chapters run concurrent. I am going to try and see when the 42 Month period happens in every chapter. (Abomination of Desolation)


1. In Chapter six, the very first verse happens at the 42 month period when the Anti-Christ defames the Temple. Chapters 7,8,9 and 10 are pretty much further Seals and Trumpets so they are after chapter Six.

2. Rev. 11 in verse 2 John is told to measure the Temple but leave off outer court, for that is given to the Gentiles to tread under foot for 42 months. So this is happening at about the midway point here, the Two Witnesses come on the scene at about the mid-way point or with about 42 months left. They will prophesy 1260 days

3. Rev. 12, the Woman (Israel) gives birth to Jesus, the Dragon tries to slay the Baby Jesus and fails, Jesus ascends to the Right hand of the Father. THEN....in verse 6 the Woman (Israel) flees into the Wilderness where she has a place prepared by God for 1260 Days. So this right here in verse 6 is the Mid-way point of the Tribulation. (Matthew 24, Jesus tells Judea to Flee when they see this Abomination of Desolation.

4. In Rev. 13, the Beast arises out of the Sea, in verse 5 we see that he is given a mouth to speak great blasphemies for 42 months, so the Mid-way point of the Tribulations is also covered in this chapter. Chapters 14,15 and 16 is the 144,000 of God and the last Woe. (Seven Last Vials is the Last Woe)

5. Rev. 17. is the Harlot riding the Beast, she is killed off by the 10 Kings in league with the Beast probably at about the 42 month point of tribulation, because at this time the Anti-Christ claims to be GOD so Islam ( All False Religion ) must be destroyed. Rev. 18 is the Final Woe destroying Babylon the Great or the Last Beast System/Seventh Head of the Beast.

Rev. 19. The Church is Raptured to Heaven before the Tribulation, so when the 42 months/Mid-way point comes to pass on earth, we the Church will be in Heaven Marrying the Lamb.



These chapters in many cases run concurrent, the only perfect order is the Seals, Trumpets and Vials. They are in perfect order. Everything else kind of weaves in and out of the stories/visions God is showing John, proclaiming to John.
 
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Revealing Times

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All of Revelation's unfolding after Revelation 4:1 are still pending including the seal portents and the events of the coming tribulation
I agree with this, but the vision in Rev. 12 does show things that happened before the time John wrote Revelation, however, the crux of the matter is to show who Israel is, so we will understand who Flees into the Wilderness in Rev. 12. (Future Event no doubt)

In the first reply you stated "all of Revelation" was hereafter, I agree that after chapter four most all of Revelation is hereafter, even when giving historical context, it is leading us towards an event that will happen hereafter, per Johns time. So we are not really in disagreement, as per after chapter four, I think the "All of Revelation" kind of threw me for a loop.

All of the Seals, Trumpets and Vials have yet to come forth. :amen:
 
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Straightshot

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Believe that Satan's "antichrist" is his beast from the abyss [Revelation 9:1; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]

This one is a fallen angel who does Satan's bidding upon the earth during the coming tribulation

Abaddon rules over 7 human Middle Eastern kingdoms for the devil .... 5 have fallen, 1 will exist at the beginning of the coming tribulation, and the other will come next

It is this one who will attempt to change the times and the laws for Israel [Daniel 7:25]

Abaddon will inhabit the human little horn of Daniel's visions [Daniel 7; 8; 11:36-45; 12:7]

He will be released from the abyss of which the entrance is under the ocean
 
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Revealing Times

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Your representation of Revelation does not agree with what the Bible says. It is a personal interpretation based on what you have either read, or been taught by others behind the pulpit. While your enthusiasm to share what you believe to be right is commendable, it is vitally important that it agrees with the Bible. To get an accurate meaning of any word or phrase in scripture, you must go to the first mention of it in the Bible. Let scripture be your interpreter of other scripture.

An example is your interpretation of the meaning of the "Beast that rises out of the sea", referring to the Anti-Christ. Your assumption is that the Anti-Christ is an individual. However, the Bible states that the Anti-Christ is an organization that promotes itself above God, claiming that it can change God's laws as it sees fit and has it's origin in the an area of the world that has always been populated. The term "Sea" refers to multitudes of people. For more information, go to http://www.jesuschrist.expert/. May God bless you in your search.
Hello brother. Welcome to the forum. My endeavor is not to "prove" others wrong but to share the Gospel with others. So if I post a scripture that explains something, do not take it personal, I am only explaining my reasoning's. I do not listen to others, but I do listen to the Holy Spirit.

As per the Beast/Anti-Christ, I hear this by many people, and the Bible tells us a different story, he is a Man. Man of Sin, the Assyrian, The Beast, the Little Horn etc. etc. But Rev. 20:10 pretty much makes this point undeniable.

Revelation 20:10 (KJV)
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Org. are not cast into Hell. The beast (Anti-Christ) and the False Prophet are in hell 1000 years by the time Satan is cast into hell. This proves the beast/Anti-Christ is a man.
 
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Revealing Times

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Believe that Satan's "antichrist" is his beast from the abyss [Revelation 9:1; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]

This one is a fallen angel who does Satan's bidding upon the earth during the coming tribulation
This is quite possible, but I am just going to keep it simple, and preach that its Satan, because either way, I am sure you agree, Satan is in charge of the whole ball of wax. I am not saying you are wrong at all, as you know, I understand about Apollyon, I think it will just confuse those I am trying to explain it to, and it is only Satan either way, he is the ruler if all evil.
Abaddon rules over 7 human Middle Eastern kingdoms for the devil .... 5 have fallen, 1 will exist at the beginning of the coming tribulation, and the other will come next
As you know, I think the five were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome was the one who WAS at Johns time and the one that is to come is Revived Rome. I do not think Islam will be much of a factor in the Tribulation at all, they are going to be wiped out imho.

God Bless
 
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Straightshot

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The followers of the beast will be the Muslims of the Middle East .... no doubt

But at the battle of Armageddon .... not before

Here are the 7 kingdoms of Satan's beast all located in the Middle East beginning just shortly after the Noahic flood: the first 5 fallen [the "land" of Magog, the Assyrian, the Babylonian, the Persian, and the Seleucid]

The Roman is not seen in the prophetic visions, and neither is the Arabian, Mongol, Parthian, Ottoman, or British

The 6th smaller will be the kingdom of the beast in the little horn at the beginning of the tribulation .... then he will expanded the 6th into the 7th larger divided kingdom with 10 other kings
 
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iamlamad

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The things that have been were historical in John's day, the things that are "now" from John's day going forward represent the Lord's dispensation of His grace still on going as we speak

However, all of the things "hereafter" are still pending and have not yet come

All of Revelation's unfolding after Revelation 4:1 are still pending including the seal portents and the events of the coming tribulation

John first sees events in heaven including the pre-tribulation immortals of his true ecclesia [Revelation 4; 5]

Then come the portents of the coming tribulation events [Revelation 6]

Next he sees the sealing of the 144000 of Israel upon the earth [Revelation 7:1-8 .... then the view switches back to heaven giving more details of the pre-tribulation ecclesia [Revelation 7:9-17]

Then the actual tribulation events begin in chapter 8

And there are only two reach backs of significant historical events giving overview recorded in Revelation's unfolding [Revelation 12:4-5; 17:8-11]

All of Revelation's unfolding after Revelation 4:1 are still pending including the seal portents and the events of the coming tribulation


This is of course just not truth. The Holy Spirit was still in the throne room in chapter 4, but sent down in chapter 5. Jesus was not in the throne room in chapter 5, but just ascended in chapter 5. NO MAN was found worthy in the first search John watched end in failure: the reason he was weeping. Then in the next search He WAS found. This gives us TIMING: around 32 AD. In case you missed it, that is HISTORY.

I agree with you that the 70th week will begin at the 7th seal and with the first trumpet judgment.
 
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iamlamad

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The followers of the beast will be the Muslims of the Middle East .... no doubt

But at the battle of Armageddon .... not before

Here are the 7 kingdoms of Satan's beast all located in the Middle East beginning just shortly after the Noahic flood: the first 5 fallen [the "land" of Magog, the Assyrian, the Babylonian, the Persian, and the Seleucid]

The Roman is not seen in the prophetic visions, and neither is the Arabian, Mongol, Parthian, Ottoman, or British

The 6th smaller will be the kingdom of the beast in the little horn at the beginning of the tribulation .... then he will expanded the 6th into the 7th larger divided kingdom with 10 other kings

Who then do you think will be all the world (except those whose names are written in heaven) that worships the beast and will be deceived by him? OF COURSE all the Muslims save those whose names are written.

NOT THE 6th! Did you not read in Daniel that he will take out 7 of ten, leaving 7, and he, the beast, will become the 8th king?
 
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iamlamad

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Hello brother. Welcome to the forum. My endeavor is not to "prove" others wrong but to share the Gospel with others. So if I post a scripture that explains something, do not take it personal, I am only explaining my reasoning's. I do not listen o others, but I do listen to the Holy Spirit.

As per the Beast/Anti-Christ, I hear this by any people, and the Bible tells us a different story, he is a Man. Man of Sin, the Assyrian, The Beast, the Little Horn etc. etc. But Rev. 20:10 pretty much makes this point undeniable.

Revelation 20:10 (KJV)
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Org. are not cast into Hell. The beast (Anti-Christ) and the False Prophet are in hell 1000 years by the time Satan is cast into hell. This proves the beast/Anti-Christ is a man.
I agree: a MAN. The man of sin turned BEAST.
 
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iamlamad

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I am going to try and determine when the Halfway point of Tribulation happens in every chapter, you see, many of these visions/chapters run concurrent. I am going to try and see when the 42 Month period happens in every chapter. (Abomination of Desolation)

Good luck with that! There is only ONE midpoint and that is found in chapter 11.

1. In Chapter six, the very first verse happens at the 42 month period when the Anti-Christ defames the Temple. Chapters 7,8,9 and 10 are pretty much further Seals and Trumpets so they are after chapter Six.

Sorry, the 70th week does not begin until the 7th seal. Chapter 6, up to the 6th seal, is CHURCH HISTORY time. The first five seals were broken as soon as Jesus ascended, around 32 AD. The first seal was to represent the CHURCH sent out with the gospel. John used "white" 17 other times - each time to represent righteousness. The next three horses are to represent the attempts of the devil to stop the advance of the church - but were limited in their theater of operation to 1/4 of the earth - centered of course in Jerusalem.
2. Rev. 11 in verse 2 John is told to measure the Temple but leave off outer court, for that is given to the Gentiles to tread under foot for 42 months. So this is happening at about the midway point here, the Two Witnesses come on the scene at about the mid-way point or with about 42 months left. They will prophesy 1260 days
Wow! I agree with you! I think the man of sin shows up in Jerusalem just 3 1/2 days before he will enter the temple and declare he is god, and will bring gentile armies with him - who will trample the city for 42 months. The two witnesses show up seconds after he does, and because he does, to testify for 1260 days. They will die just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial ends the week, lay dead, and rise up at the 7th vial - when ALL the Old Testament saints rise.
3. Rev. 12, the Woman (Israel) gives birth to Jesus, the Dragon tries to slay the Baby Jesus and fails, Jesus ascends to the Right hand of the Father. THEN....in verse 6 the Woman (Israel) flees into the Wilderness where she has a place prepared by God for 1260 Days. So this right here in verse 6 is the Mid-way point of the Tribulation. (Matthew 24, Jesus tells Judea to Flee when they see this Abomination of Desolation.
I am very impressed! Good job! I think 12:6 will be perhaps 2 seconds after the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is god (the event that will divide the week into two equal halves). It might take 2 seconds for their brains to acknowledge what they just saw. I think the exact midpoint is marked by the 7th trumpet sounding.
4. In Rev. 13, the Beast arises out of the Sea, in verse 5 we see that he is given a mouth to speak great blasphemies for 42 months, so the Mid-way point of the Tribulations is also covered in this chapter. Chapters 14,15 and 16 is the 144,000 of God and the last Woe. (Seven Last Vials is the Last Woe)
This may be a day or two after the 7th trumpet. John does not tell us. Does 42 months have to be accurate to the very day? Maybe not. But then, it may be on the same day as the 7th trumpet sounds. How long will this heavenly war take?
5. Rev. 17. is the Harlot riding the Beast, she is killed off by the 10 Kings in league with the Beast probably at about the 42 month point of tribulation, because at this time the Anti-Christ claims to be GOD so Islam ( All False Religion ) must be destroyed. Rev. 18 is the Final Woe destroying Babylon the Great or the Last Beast System/Seventh Head of the Beast.
The harlot is also the "great wh**re Babylon" which is, as John said, "that great city." John previously said the great city was JERUSALEM. OF COURSE Mystery Babylon is Jerusalem, for the greatest deception ever to come upon man will come from Jerusalem while the Beast and False Prophet are at their peak. The ten nations represent the nations of the world that will throw in with the beast at the last hour to wipe Israel and Jerusalem off the map. OF COURSE they will be surprised to find they will be fighting GOD HIMSELF! They will HATE Jerusalem and burn her with fire.
Rev. 19. The Church is Raptured to Heaven before the Tribulation, so when the 42 months/Mid-way point comes to pass on earth, we the Church will be in Heaven Marrying the Lamb.
I disagree: the marriage is not until AFTER the 7th vial has ended the 70th week. Why? God will wait for the Old Testament saints to arise. Their resurrection will be on the last day, at the 7th vial. (Notice the world's worst earthquake?) God will shake the earth mightily when He pulls together the atoms that once made up their bodies: some will come from before the flood. Their atoms or Quarks maybe hundreds of miles from each other.

You are right, we are there for the marriage and supper before Jesus descends to Armageddon.


These chapters in many cases run concurrent, the only perfect order is the Seals, Trumpets and Vials. They are in perfect order. Everything else kind of weaves in and out of the stories/visions God is showing John, proclaiming to John.

My point is that things in a given chapter will take place AFTER the events of a previous chapter and BEFORE the events of a later chapter. The exception is parentheses. I have always said, ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong.
 
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Straightshot

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"Did you not read in Daniel that he will take out 7 of ten, leaving 7, and he, the beast, will become the 8th king?"

Nothing I have not read

The beast in the human little horn will replace all of the 3 plucked with his choosing [Revelation 17:12; 17:16-18] .... the little horn plus 10 others

When the beast fully possesses the human little horn He will be come the 8th king himself and rule over his 7th and final Middle Eastern kingdom for 42 months

Abaddon has ruled over 5 historical human Middle Eastern kingdoms for Satan .... the last was the northern Seleucid just before the first century

The coming human little horn will rule over both the 6th and the 7th .... first the smaller and then the expanded/divided with 10 other human kings

Abaddon will actually possess the human little horn at the middle of the 70th week decreed for Israel and rule himself as the 8th king of his 7th kingdom [2 Thessalonians 2:3-12] .... this is the workings of Satan [Daniel 11:36-45; Revelation 13:1-4]
 
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iamlamad

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That would no doubt have to be correct.


Hello brother. imho, this is why understanding the timing of the Rapture is so important, I am not one to dog others about their beliefs, but Satan's A-1 job is to try and confuse us, and he will never cease until he is locked in the pit. When the tribulation is happening, Christians are in Heaven, marrying the Lamb. Those Christian Saints under the alter who were beheaded, are those five virgins types Jesus spoke of, who were not ready when the Bridegroom called to them. They had sin manifest in their lives, Jesus was not number one in their lives etc. etc. Some may have never been Christians but came to Christ after their loved ones died (we will all die when we are Raptured) all at the same times as millions of other Christians died. We can not take these corrupt bodies to Heaven, we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.

So see how misdiagnosing the Rapture can throw everything out of whack ? That is if course my belief, I am not going to dog anyone's belief, but it can change the whole understanding(s) of timings. The first Seas can then be the Anti-Christ, as can the second seal, third seal and fourth seal. Then the Saints are Remembered by God, and told to wait a while. Notice they want vengeance on those people "ON EARTH" who beheaded them. They were all killed during the Tribulation.

This is good, but you MUST understand the first seals in their context, which is the narrative of chapters 4 & 5. God spent MONTHS teaching me these two chapters. Why so long? I was very slow! What these two chapters do is set the exact time of the first seals. Notice that John got to see in this part of the vision the very moment that Jesus ascended into the throne room, after rising from the dead, and as soon as He arrived the Holy Spirit was sent down. So 32 AD? 33 AD? People always try to take the first seal out of this context, so are completely mixed up as to the intent of the Author.
 
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Revealing Times

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I agree: a MAN. The man of sin turned BEAST.
He is called the Beast because Satan/Apollyon (Same to me) possesses him and because he is the leader of the Last Beast System. But he is still a man, just like if a human you knew today that became possessed, that man would be sentenced/judged for who he was, and the demon with be judged for who he is, they are separate entities. This is why these two men are cast immediately into hell, they are judged by the judgment seat, but the rest of the Wicked are Judged a 1000 years later.
This is good, but you MUST understand the first seals in their context, which is the narrative of chapters 4 & 5. God spent MONTHS teaching me these two chapters. Why so long? I was very slow! What these two chapters do is set the exact time of the first seals. Notice that John got to see in this part of the vision the very moment that Jesus ascended into the throne room, after rising from the dead, and as soon as He arrived the Holy Spirit was sent down. So 32 AD? 33 AD? People always try to take the first seal out of this context, so are completely mixed up as to the intent of the Author.
I agree with 4 and 5 philosophy pretty much. But the Anti-Christ is the First Seal.

Go back and read my OP, and I will reread your post above tomorrow, sleepy tonight.

God Bless.
 
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He is called the Beast because Satan/Apollyon (Same to me) possesses him and because he is the leader of the Last Beast System. But he is still a man, just like if a human you knew today that became possessed, that man would be sentenced/judged for who he was, and the demon with be judged for who he is, they are separate entities. This is why these two men are cast immediately into hell, they are judged by the judgment seat, but the rest of the Wicked are Judged a 1000 years later.

I agree with 4 and 5 philosophy pretty much. But the Anti-Christ is the First Seal.

Go back and read my OP, and I will reread your post above tomorrow, sleepy tonight.

God Bless.
Then you don't agree pretty much! Don't take the first seal out of its context! The context was around 32 AD when Jesus ascended and sent the Holy spirit down. This is 2000 years TOO SOON for the first seal. Did you not know that John used the color white 17 other times (other than the white colored horse) and each time was to represent righteousness? Sure, the Beast antichrist would LOVE to color himself white, but GOD IS writing this book, not the antichrist! God shows us the color of the Beast: fiery RED! There is not even one word in the description of the first seal, broken in 32 AD that would even HINT of something evil. That is NOT God's intent here. This seal is to represent the CHURCH sent out with the GOSPEL. When did that happen? You know the answer. Jesus commanded them to make disciples of all nations, then He ascended back to heaven.
 
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