Revelation 20 Bible Study:

[BABerean2]

The following is a study of Revelation chapter 20 that I did this week with my church body.
It is mainly composed of a series of questions.

Some have said the Book of Revelation is the most difficult book in the Bible, and chapter 20 is the most difficult chapter in the book.

This is something you could share with others who are attempting to understand the chapter.

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Revelation 20: Does your interpretation agree with all other scripture?

(Chronological or Recapitulation?) (Literal vs. Figurative?)

Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for mortals killed in accidents many years after His Second Coming? Graveyards needed?

Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24?

Can the number 1,000 be used in a symbolic manner? Psalm 50:10

Does an angel with a key come from heaven and open the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2? Why did the angel have to unlock the pit if it was not locked previously?
Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit found in Revelation 9:11?
Are some of the angels “bound” in some manner in Revelation 9:14?
If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation 11:7, where is the beast before then?


John sees “souls” at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20.
Are these the same “souls” found in Revelation 6:9-11?

Is the “first resurrection” in Revelation 20:5 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation? (Rev. 11:11) Are there two different types of resurrections in John chapter 5?
John 5:24 (Spiritual) ? Were you dead, and now you are alive?
John 5:27-30 Christ describes the bodily resurrection and “hour” of judgment of “all” the dead.

Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29?
How is Satan “bound” in Revelation 20:3?

How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46?
Isaiah 65:17-25? Are people really dying in verse 20? Context, Context, Context…

Was Paul expecting Christ to return "in flaming fire", taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10? How would mortals survive this fire?
Does the fire come at the end of Revelation 20?

Did Paul expect both the living and the dead to be judged at the appearing of Christ, in 2 Timothy 4:1?
When is the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20? Is it the same judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18?


What is the restitution of all things at the return of Christ in Acts 3:20-21?
Will Christ's sacrifice at Calvary also reverse the curse, at His return?

Does death die at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:50-55?

Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship? See John 4:20-24.
Why did Paul say the Jerusalem above is our “mother” in Galatians 4:24-31?
What is the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?

Is the third temple found in 1 Peter 2:4-10? Is this temple just as real as a temple made of earthly stones?

What was Peter expecting on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10-13?

Do we find the judgment of both the living and the dead at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15-18? Why do most preachers ignore the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18? What does it prove about the chronology of the Book of Revelation?

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Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?
Is Revelation chapter 20 another example of “Recapitulation”?


Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.


Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.


Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Judgment Before the Great White Throne.

Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

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A discussion of the three different Millennial Viewpoints on YouTube:

“An Evening of Eschatology – Premillennialism, Amillennialism, Postmillennialism”

Doctors----> Jim Hamilton, Sam Storms, Doug Wilson

.

 

[BobRyan]

Thanks for starting this thread.
interesting video...I look forward to watching.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Revelation 20:9, "fire from God out of heaven", references Exodus 9:23, "fire & hail from heaven against Egypt", and also Psalms 97, "fire goes out from God vs. enemies melting mountains like beeswax" + Psalms 148:8, "fire & lightning do the bidding of God in heaven"

Also, Deuteronomy 4:36, 18:16, 5:25, "God's Voice amidst the fire atop Mt. Sinai frightens the Israelites"

Other relevant verses include:

• Exodus 13:23 = Nehemiah 9:19, "column of fire leads the Israelites by day"
• Isaiah 50:11, 66:24, "flames for sinners shall not be extinguished"
• Dan 3, "Nebuchadnezzar orders furnace for non-idol worshippers"

Literally interpreted, "mountains melting like wax" (Ps 97) would require earth surface temperatures to reach around 1200 degrees Celsius (consistent with 2 Peter 3:10) which is the characteristic melting temperature of terrestrial rock. "Fiery hail from heaven like no nation had ever seen before" (Ex 9:23) would resemble a swarm of asteroids impacting the planet, all at once.

 

[BobRyan]

IN Rev 20 - God is present to He could cause a lot of things to suddenly happen since he has infinite power. But I agree with you - it is a literal event.

 

[grafted branch]

Revelation 20:9, "fire from God out of heaven", references Exodus 9:23, "fire & hail from heaven against Egypt", and also Psalms 97, "fire goes out from God vs. enemies melting mountains like beeswax" + Psalms 148:8, "fire & lightning do the bidding of God in heaven"

Also, Deuteronomy 4:36, 18:16, 5:25, "God's Voice amidst the fire atop Mt. Sinai frightens the Israelites"

Other relevant verses include:

• Exodus 13:23 = Nehemiah 9:19, "column of fire leads the Israelites by day"
• Isaiah 50:11, 66:24, "flames for sinners shall not be extinguished"
• Dan 3, "Nebuchadnezzar orders furnace for non-idol worshippers"

Literally interpreted, "mountains melting like wax" (Ps 97) would require earth surface temperatures to reach around 1200 degrees Celsius (consistent with 2 Peter 3:10) which is the characteristic melting temperature of terrestrial rock. "Fiery hail from heaven like no nation had ever seen before" (Ex 9:23) would resemble a swarm of asteroids impacting the planet, all at once.

In Revelation 11:8 the city where our Lord was crucified is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt. In Revelation 20:9 the fire comes down and devoured them. It isn’t clear if the fire devours the camp of the saints, the nations that encompass the camp, or both.

Do you think it’s possible that 1)the camp of the saints is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, and 2)it is the camp of the saints that is devoured by fire?

 

[Erik Nelson]

In Revelation 11:8 the city where our Lord was crucified is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt. In Revelation 20:9 the fire comes down and devoured them. It isn’t clear if the fire devours the camp of the saints, the nations that encompass the camp, or both.

Do you think it’s possible that 1)the camp of the saints is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, and 2)it is the camp of the saints that is devoured by fire?

The connection to Moses, Egypt, and the Plague of Fiery Hail, suggests something similar -- the surrounded Saints "call down fire from heaven on the besieging masses of Magog"

As you seem to have noticed, the fire from heaven also echos Sodom & Gomorrah, and those plus "Egypt" seem to re-re-reference all these same events

The multiple overlapping references may "confirm" the connections. If so, then a clear and consistent picture is painted & repainted of some city surrounded on all sides, vaguely like Moses & Israel in the midst of Egypt, with fiery hail raining down everywhere but somehow not harming "Moses & Israel" (= surrounded Saints in Revelation 20:9)

 

[BobRyan]

The "Holy Jerusalem" in Rev 21 and the "Camp of the saints"/"The Beloved City" in Rev 20 is the same city.

It is the New Jerusalem - Christ and all the saints inside the city and all the lost on the outside of that city.

Rev 20 does not say that the saints call fire down from heaven.

START of the 1000 year millennium

Rev 19:
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”
19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Rev 20:
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.​

So that is the "First resurrection" -- the resurrection of the saints who are then taken to heaven as we see in 1 Thess 4:13-18 and in Matt 24:29-31

AFTER the 1000 years

5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.​

AT the start of the 1000 years

Rev 20:5...This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.​

The first resurrection: Saints that are raised at Christ's appearing in Rev 19
The Second Resurrection: The lost raised when the 1000 years end.


AFTER the 1000 years

Short 4 vs summary

Rev 20:

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.​

9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever​

Expanded detail on that same summary statement.

The wicked are raised to life
They are surrounding the holy city
Then they are judged and cast into the lake of fire.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
​

What vs 9 describes as all the lost surrounding the city and then devoured by fire that comes down form God --- is further described in vs 11-15 as being the wicked dead coming back to life, the great white throne judgment and then the second death - lake of fire.

 

[grafted branch]

So that is the "First resurrection" -- the resurrection of the saints who are then taken to heaven as we see in 1 Thess 4:13-18 and in Matt 24:29-31

What about Matthew 27:52-53? Isn’t this the first literal resurrection of saints?

 

[Erik Nelson]

Rev 20:

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.​

9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever​

"Raising" [= Resurrection] does not occur (except for the special "first Resurrection") until after that "fire from heaven" initiates, begins, marks the onset, of Judgement

"Gog & Magog" are the people who are swept up into the attack on the "camp of the saints" after the Christian Millennium and before Judgement (Rev 20:7-9)

(Based on the allusions to Moses calling for fiery hail against Egypt, Rev 20:9 seems to imply something similar, but does not explicitly say so ​

 

[DavidPT]

"Raising" [= Resurrection] does not occur (except for the special "first Resurrection") until after that "fire from heaven" initiates, begins, marks the onset, of Judgement

"Gog & Magog" are the people who are swept up into the attack on the "camp of the saints" after the Christian Millennium and before Judgement (Rev 20:7-9)

(Based on the allusions to Moses calling for fiery hail against Egypt, Rev 20:9 seems to imply something similar, but does not explicitly say so ​

Haven't noticed you posting around here for awhile. Good to see you back posting again.

 

[BobRyan]

"Raising" [= Resurrection] does not occur (except for the special "first Resurrection") until after that "fire from heaven" initiates, begins, marks the onset, of Judgement​

Christ's appearing in Rev 19 and 2 Thess 1 is what starts the 1000 years and it executes judgment on all the lost... on all the unsaved as well as rapturing the saints to heaven (1 Thess 4:!3-18, John 14:1-3, Matt 24:29-31).

So we see both resurrection and judgment - at the singular starting event - that begins the 1000 years.

Next we see Earth with no humans on it as a result of the starting event above
Jer 4:23-26 "no humans" on Earth. only ruined cities.

So the righteous are raised to life at the start of the 1000 years - but "the rest of the dead" (ie "the lost") -- do not come to life until the 1000 years are completed.

The resurrection of the wicked marks the end of the 1000 years.

=======================================

With all the wicked raised - that have ever lived on planet Earth - Satan finally has nations to deceive -- having been deprived of all humanity during that 1000 years since there were "no humans" during that time according to Jeremiah 4:23-26.

He marshals them into a vast army - surrounds the Holy City / New Jerusalem / Camp of the saints that came to Earth with Christ -- but is then subjected to the great white throne judgment and all the lost including the devil cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 20:
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.

7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone

1. The wicked are raise
2. Satan then has the time to "deceive the nations"
3. They have time to prepare for war and "to gather them" for war.
4. They have time to execute their plan and "come up on the broad plain of the Earth" and surround the city.

None of that time is described so minutely in other NT chapters - so then when people ignore these Rev 20 details - they include none of them in their interpretations of the event.

We can all see how many details would be lost from the Gospel accounts if we simply include the details in the first 3 gospels and omit the details in the Gospel of John. We could then claim "a lot of things never happened" that are only recorded by John.

 

[BobRyan]

All the lost slain at the appearing of Christ - leaving only a desolate Earth (since saints are also raptured to heaven then).

2 Thess 1:
4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints

Rev 19:
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”
19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.


Jer 4:23-26 NASB (latest version)

23 I looked at the earth, and behold, it was a formless and desolate emptiness;
And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking,
And all the hills jolted back and forth.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no human,
And all the birds of the sky had fled.
26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were pulled down
Before the Lord, before His fierce anger.


Jer 25:
30 “Therefore you shall prophesy against them all these words, and you shall say to them,

‘The Lord will roar from on high
And raise His voice from His holy dwelling;
He will roar forcefully against His fold.
He will shout like those who tread the grapes,
Against all the inhabitants of the earth.
31 A clamor has come to the end of the earth,
Because the Lord has a controversy with the nations.
He is entering into judgment with humanity;
As for the wicked, He has turned them over to the sword,’ declares the Lord.”

32 This is what the Lord of armies says:
“Behold, evil is going out
From nation to nation,
And a great storm is being stirred up
From the remotest parts of the earth.

33 “Those put to death by the Lord on that day will be from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be mourned, gathered, or buried; they will be like dung on the face of the ground.​

 

[Spiritual Jew]

In Revelation 11:8 the city where our Lord was crucified is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt. In Revelation 20:9 the fire comes down and devoured them. It isn’t clear if the fire devours the camp of the saints, the nations that encompass the camp, or both.

Do you think it’s possible that 1)the camp of the saints is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, and 2)it is the camp of the saints that is devoured by fire?

The fire is God's wrath. Why would that come down on the camp of the saints? No, it clearly will come down on those who oppose the camp of the saints.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Christ's appearing in Rev 19 and 2 Thess 1 is what starts the 1000 years and it executes judgment on all the lost... on all the unsaved as well as rapturing the saints to heaven (1 Thess 4:!3-18, John 14:1-3, Matt 24:29-31).

So we see both resurrection and judgment - at the singular starting event - that begins the 1000 years.

Next we see Earth with no humans on it as a result of the starting event above
Jer 4:23-26 "no humans" on Earth. only ruined cities.

So the righteous are raised to life at the start of the 1000 years - but "the rest of the dead" (ie "the lost") -- do not come to life until the 1000 years are completed.

The resurrection of the wicked marks the end of the 1000 years.

=======================================

With all the wicked raised - that have ever lived on planet Earth - Satan finally has nations to deceive -- having been deprived of all humanity during that 1000 years since there were "no humans" during that time according to Jeremiah 4:23-26.

He marshals them into a vast army - surrounds the Holy City / New Jerusalem / Camp of the saints that came to Earth with Christ -- but is then subjected to the great white throne judgment and all the lost including the devil cast into the lake of fire.

Did you read the OP of this thread? If not, I think you should.

It seems that you think the wicked will be resurrected and allowed to attack the "camp of saints" when the thousand years ends? Why would that happen? I don't believe it makes any sense. More importantly, that isn't what scripture teaches. Scripture repeatedly teaches that the wicked will be judged immediately upon their resurrection. That is what is indicated in passages like these:

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Can you see here how it shows the wicked being condemned right after being resurrected? There's no indication whatsoever here of them being resurrected and allowed to be active for a period of time before being judged.

Notice in the following verses that the wicked will be judged on the same day that the righteous are resurrected.

John 6:40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

Your view contradicts passages like these because you have the righteous being raised 1000+ years before the wicked are judged. Scripture teaches that the righteous will be raised and the wicked judged on "the last day".

 

[grafted branch]

The fire is God's wrath. Why would that come down on the camp of the saints? No, it clearly will come down on those who oppose the camp of the saints.

Fire comes down on Sodom in Genesis 19:24-25 and on Egypt in Exodus 9:23-24.

If the great city which is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where our Lord was crucified, is Jerusalem and if the beloved city in Revelation 20:9 is Jerusalem this would lead me to think that it is Jerusalem that is devoured by the fire from heaven.

 

[BobRyan]

Did you read the OP of this thread?

yes

It seems that you think the wicked will be resurrected and allowed to attack the "camp of saints" when the thousand years ends?

I point out that the text says it.

Why would that happen? I don't believe it makes any sense.

Disliking what the text says is not the same thing as "the text did not say it".

More importantly, that isn't what scripture teaches.

I show in my post above - that this is exactly what the text teaches.

#11

Scripture repeatedly teaches that the wicked will be judged immediately upon their resurrection.

1. No scripture tells us how many minutes, seconds, days there are between the second resurrection and the moment that the wicked are cast into the lake of fire.

2. Rev 20:7-9 tells us that Satan marshals all the wicked into an organized army that then takes action to attack the holy city - the camp of the saints. No number of "seconds" is given in the text telling us how long it takes to do that. This is irrefutable.


Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Only tells us the path they are on at that resurrection .. it does not tell us that instead of the wicked being organized into an army and having a plane of attack they are instead instantly cast into the lake of fire at the 2nd resurrection. (for example).

Can you see here how it shows the wicked being condemned right after being resurrected? There's no indication whatsoever here of them being resurrected and allowed to be active for a period of time before being judged.

Because you have carefully omitted the key text informing us of that detail. It is like quoting Gen 1 where Adam and Eve are both created together ... omitting Gen 2 where Adam is created first - then insisting that Adam was not created first but that Adam and Eve were created together. By omitting texts you also omit the harmony of the texts using the more logical "Both-and" rule.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Fire comes down on Sodom in Genesis 19:24-25 and on Egypt in Exodus 9:23-24.

That is irrelevant.

If the great city which is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where our Lord was crucified, is Jerusalem

It isn't. Jesus was not crucified in Jerusalem (see John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12). The great city should not be taken literally. The great city is spiritually compared to Babylon, also. It's a global spiritual city which is in contrast to the new Jerusalem. All unbelievers are part of the great city Babylon while all believers are part of the new heavenly Jerusalem (see Hebrews 12:22).

and if the beloved city in Revelation 20:9 is Jerusalem

It's not.

this would lead me to think that it is Jerusalem that is devoured by the fire from heaven.

It's not talking about earthly Jerusalem. It's not reasonable to think that a number of unbelievers "as the sand of the sea" would all literally travel to Jerusalem to attack Jerusalem. It's a figurative description having to do with global opposition against the church, which is the new Jerusalem.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

yes

So, you did read the OP. I'd be curious to see some of your thoughts on it.

I point out that the text says it.

No, the text does not say that at all. We know that the dead are not resurrected until not only after the thousand years, but also after Satan's little season because we know that they are judged right after being resurrected. And the judgment obviously occurs right after Satan's little season ends.

Disliking what the text says is not the same thing as "the text did not say it".

I don't dislike what the text says at all. I dislike your interpretation of the text because I believe it contradicts other scripture.

1. No scripture tells us how many minutes, seconds, days there are between the second resurrection and the moment that the wicked are cast into the lake of fire.

We have scripture telling us that the wicked are raised unto condemnation. If they are not actually judged until years after they are raised, then that would make nonsense out of those scriptures.

2. Rev 20:7-9 tells us that Satan marshals all the wicked into an organized army that then takes action to attack the holy city - the camp of the saints. No number of "seconds" is given in the text telling us how long it takes to do that. This is irrefutable.

It's a little season. That's clearly longer than just seconds.

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Only tells us the path they are on at that resurrection .. it does not tell us that instead of the wicked being organized into an army and having a plane of attack they are instead instantly cast into the lake of fire at the 2nd resurrection. (for example).

I completely disagree. It says they awake to shame and everlasting contempt. If they don't actually experience shame and everlasting contempt until years later then that would contradict what this verse indicates.

Because you have carefully omitted the key text informing us of that detail. It is like quoting Gen 1 where Adam and Eve are both created together ... omitting Gen 2 where Adam is created first - then insisting that Adam was not created first but that Adam and Eve were created together. By omitting texts you also omit the harmony of the texts using the more logical "Both-and" rule.

You seem to want to just disregard what verses like Daniel 12:2 and John 5:28-29 indicate. You also noticeably have nothing to refute the fact that scriptures says believers will be resurrected on the same "last day" as the wicked are judged. How do you reconcile that with your view? Will there be more than one "last day"?

 

[grafted branch]

The great city should not be taken literally. The great city is spiritually compared to Babylon, also. It's a global spiritual city which is in contrast to the new Jerusalem. All unbelievers are part of the great city Babylon while all believers are part of the new heavenly Jerusalem (see Hebrews 12:22).

But Revelation 11:8 doesn’t say Babylon, it says Sodom and Egypt. What scriptures are you using that show this substitution is valid?

It's not talking about earthly Jerusalem. It's not reasonable to think that a number of unbelievers "as the sand of the sea" would all literally travel to Jerusalem to attack Jerusalem. It's a figurative description having to do with global opposition against the church, which is the new Jerusalem.

It also very possible that it’s a figurative description of the destruction of Jerusalem 66-70 AD.

 

[BobRyan]

So, you did read the OP. I'd be curious to see some of your thoughts on it.

ok -- thank you for asking

Revelation 20: Does your interpretation agree with all other scripture?

I agree that sola scriptura testing is the key - no matter what the doctrine.. to see if it aligns with all texts on a given doctrine/teaching.

(Chronological or Recapitulation?) (Literal vs. Figurative?)

1. Some parts of Revelation are chronological (such as within one of the 7's) and some are recapitulation as we see in the 7 churches, trumpets, seals and in Rev 20 summary followed by expanded detail.

2. Some parts of Revelation are literal - "God, Satan, armies of men, armies of heaven, saints, commandments of God, lake of fire, New Jerusalem, walls..." -- and others are figurative/symbols standing for something else "Lamb, Dragon, beasts, false prophet, 2 witnesses,

Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for mortals killed in accidents many years after His Second Coming? Graveyards needed?

3. I did not see "The following scripture" but the question should be "based on the teaching of scripture will immortals and mortal humans live on Earth during the 1000 years or will it be desolate as Jer 4:23-26 states?"

Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24?

Heb 8:6-13 is an exact quote of Jer 31:31-34 it is not the fulfillment - rather a repeat of it. The New Covenant is in both OT and NT and it is unchanged in both.

Can the number 1,000 be used in a symbolic manner? Psalm 50:10

A number of years between two events is never "symbolic" in scripture. Not one example of such a thing - not even in all of Ps 50.

Does an angel with a key come from heaven and open the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2? Why did the angel have to unlock the pit if it was not locked previously?
Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit found in Revelation 9:11?
Are some of the angels “bound” in some manner in Revelation 9:14?
If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation 11:7, where is the beast before then?

A lot of symbolism there - inviting too much speculation in that section for a definitive answer.

Rev 9:

Then the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star from heaven which had fallen to the earth; and the key to the shaft of the abyss was given to him. 2 He opened the shaft of the abyss, and smoke ascended out of the shaft like the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened from the smoke of the shaft. 3 Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a person. 6 And in those days people will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death will flee from them!

7 The appearance of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle; and on their heads appeared to be crowns like gold, and their faces were like human faces. 8 They had hair like the hair of women, and their teeth were like the teeth of lions. 9 They had breastplates like breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots, of many horses rushing to battle. 10 They have tails like scorpions, and stings; and in their tails is their power to hurt people for five months. 11 They have as king over them, the angel of the abyss; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek he has the name Apollyon.​

Some say that refers to the Ottoman Empire ending in the 19th century.
Revelation Chapter IX



================================= Rev 20

John sees “souls” at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20.
Are these the same “souls” found in Revelation 6:9-11?

Both of them refer to saints who have died.

Is the “first resurrection” in Revelation 20:5 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation? (Rev. 11:11)

The two witnesses in Rev 11 are symbolic of OT and NT - the text is talking about the 1260 years of dark ages when the Bible was banned and then the Reformation that brought the Bible back into the hands of the public.

The Rev 20:5 resurrection is the same one mentioned in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4:13-18.

1 Cor 15: 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,

Are there two different types of resurrections in John chapter 5?
John 5:24 (Spiritual) ? Were you dead, and now you are alive?
John 5:27-30 Christ describes the bodily resurrection and “hour” of judgment of “all” the dead.

The two resurrections in John 5 are both physical.

25 Truly, truly, I say to you, a time is coming and even now has arrived, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; 27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not be amazed at this; for a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment.​

Just as Lazarus heard Christ's voice and then came forward. (John 11)

Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29?

Satan and or his demons. But Matt 26 does not say that Satan is bound. In Job 1 and 2 -- Satan complains that God has restrained him, placed limits on him.

How is Satan “bound” in Revelation 20:3?

1. He cannot leave Earth - unlike his travel in Job 1 and Job 2.
2. He has no humans to tempt - since Earth is desolate for those 1000 years.

How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46?

Matt 25 does not use the term "mortals/humans left alive on Earth".
Jer 4:13-16 does - and it tells us 'no humans' are on Earth at that time.


More later if someone is interested. But I don't want this to turn into an unreasonably long post.