Revelation 20:9 - Are we nearly there?

[Freedm]

With Abrahams timing, this takes some nutting out as the Bible leaves out some details. It doesn't tell us how old he was when they departed from Ur. Only that he was 75 when they went to live in Canaan.
But the years up to when Abram was born come to 1948, which is 52 years short of the 2000 year mark at our calendar of 1970.5 BC
It follows, with perfect logic and common sense, that he was 52 when God called him, 2000 years after Adam. Then they spent 23 years living in Haran and finally went to Canaan when he was 75. Genesis 12:4

That's possible, but as you said, impossible to confirm given the lack of detail around this timing.

 

[Freedm]

There really is no detail in here for how you came up with 613.5 years. It just seems that you subtracted where you believe the baptism occurred minus the 586. Are you using secular chronology or biblical chronology for this?

I also came up with that same number in my calculations. And yes, I did indeed have to subtract from the baptism year, which is AD 29 according to Luke 3:1. Counting backwards to the known date of the Babylonian captivity you end up with 613.5 years elapsed. Or at least 613. I added the 0.5 because I believe Jesus' ministry lasted for 3.5 years so if he was baptized at the year 29.5 and ministered for 3.5 he would've been crucified at the 33 year mark exactly.

I also had to assume that Jesus was baptized in the same year that John started baptizing, but it's entirely possible that several years had passed. We just aren't given that much information.

It's obviously not an exact science, given the limited information we have, but I still find it very compelling.

 

[Freedm]

I'm saying satan's "short time" began following the 1st resurrection, which is Christ, when he was cast out at the ascension.

o.k. so does that mean you believe the thousand years has already ended? And do you believe that Satan has already been thrown into the lake of fire?

 

[keras]

Wasn't abram 75 years when God first the made the promise to him? Add 75 to 2008 and it brings you to 2083 from adam to the time of God's calling to Abram. Add +430 to this to bring you to the exodus, which would be around 2513 years from Adam.

No, Abram was 52 when God called him to leave Ur. He was 99 when God made a Covenant with him.
Yo seem to be just searching for any kind of way to confuse this issue.

Wouldn't it be more than 480 years from the exodus to the 4th year of solomon?

I don't mess with plainly stated scripture. 1 Kings 6:1 is clear.

but it also seems that the 450 years, as mentioned by paul, could relate to a longer period of time than just the time of the judges. how do you view this?

Paul's statement is also clear: The Law was given at Mt Sinai 430 years [not 450] after the Covenant with Abraham. This time includes; Isaac, Jacob and the 12 sons of Jacob and their time in Egypt, incl their Exodus as far as Sinai.

There really is no detail in here for how you came up with 613.5 years. It just seems that you subtracted where you believe the baptism occurred minus the 586. Are you using secular chronology or biblical chronology for this?

Why argue a simple math calculation?
The known dates of 586 BC to 29.5 AD = 615.5 which includes 2 years to suit our calendar system of counting years at their commencement.
To further explain this difference, this year is 2021, but only 2020 years - now plus 1 month, have passed. therefore, when counting a set number of years between 2 dates on our Gregorian calendar over the BC/AD changeover, we must add a year at each end for the fully completed time period. It isn't necessary for time periods within BC or AD, as the start and finish dates are both at the commencement. [It is quite hard to really understand this issue, blame Dennis the Short; Dionysus, the not so bright monk who compiled the Gregorian calendar.]
For the actual elapsed years, from Adam of 3386.5, plus the elapsed years of 613.5 until Jesus was Baptized, was a total of 4000 years.

Your choice; believe God's perfect Plan, or reject it and remain in the dark.

 

[keras]

It's obviously not an exact science, given the limited information we have, but I still find it very compelling.

What this study of God's timing IS; is just using His Word to find out His Plan for mankind. The 7000 year Plan is Biblical and we are now on the edge of the dramatic change from our rule to the rule of King Jesus.

We Bible studiers should know and be ready for the events leading up to that glorious time.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Just to clarify, I too do not take the thousand year to mean a literal thousand years, but rather a long and undefined length of time. It sounds like I gave you the wrong impression on that point.

Not sure you may have given me the wrong impression...how so? Wish to expound?
I believe the thousand year reign to be an undefined length of time, not knowing though if it shall be short or long...it will come in a flash pens Paul and Jesus also says this in essence.
A thousand year in God's eyes are but a day and a day is like a thousand years...so long or short time.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I'm saying satan's "short time" began following the 1st resurrection, which is Christ, when he was cast out at the ascension.

I believe the first resurrection spoken of in Revelation and no where else is a first and second resurrection mentioned according to this Bible studier, is our being born again...see Ephesians 5:14;
see...
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sin... (Ephesians 2:1)
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,...(Ephesians 2:6)
I believe this is describing a born again experience and it is metaphorically stated as if it were a 1st resurrection from the dead...we were dead in our sins until Christ gave us faith.
The second resurrection is Judgement Day.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I believe the first resurrection spoken of in Revelation and no where else is a first and second resurrection mentioned according to this Bible studier, is our being born again...see Ephesians 5:14;
see...
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sin... (Ephesians 2:1)
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,...(Ephesians 2:6)
I believe this is describing a born again experience and it is metaphorically stated as if it were a 1st resurrection from the dead...we were dead in our sins until Christ gave us faith.
The second resurrection is Judgement Day.

I should have stated that the first death is to NOT be born again; the second death is eternal damnation.

 

[claninja]

I also came up with that same number in my calculations. And yes, I did indeed have to subtract from the baptism year, which is AD 29 according to Luke 3:1. Counting backwards to the known date of the Babylonian captivity you end up with 613.5 years elapsed. Or at least 613. I added the 0.5 because I believe Jesus' ministry lasted for 3.5 years so if he was baptized at the year 29.5 and ministered for 3.5 he would've been crucified at the 33 year mark exactly.

While, I'm not dogmatic about dates, because we are far passed Christ's fulfillment of the OT, I typically hold Christ's crucifixion in 30AD.

Christ born ~4 BC
Christ's ministry began ~26AD
Christ's crucifixion ~30ad

Adam----~2,000 years----Abraham-----~430 years-----Exodus

Exodus---~480 years (masoretic text)/440 years (lxx)/over 480 years (acts 13)---Solomon

Solomon-----~ 350-400 years-----Babylon Captivity----70 years----Cyrus proclamation

Cyrus Proclamation ---------483 years---------Christ's ministry

Again, just approximations. The important part is Christ came in the flesh at the fullness of time, exactly as ordained by God, regardless of how we calculate it.

I also had to assume that Jesus was baptized in the same year that John started baptizing, but it's entirely possible that several years had passed. We just aren't given that much information.

I typically do as well.

It's obviously not an exact science, given the limited information we have, but I still find it very compelling.

Absolutely agree. IMHO, the importance of specific dates and times were for understanding the "fullness of time" when Christ was to come into the world in the flesh.

I believe using it to predict when Christ will return is inappropriate (ie the millennial day theory).

 

[claninja]

o.k. so does that mean you believe the thousand years has already ended? And do you believe that Satan has already been thrown into the lake of fire?

acts 2:30-32 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that He would place one of his descendants on his throne. Foreseeing this, David spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that He was not abandoned to Hades, nor did His body see decay. God has raised this Jesus to life, to which we are all witnesses.

Christ's resurrection fulfilled the Davidic oath. The Davidic oath was given literally 1,000 years prior to Christ's resurrection. I view the 1,000 years of revelation 20, as symbolic for the fulfillment of the Davidic oath. Therefore, I believe the 1,000 years were fulfilled WITHIN Christ's resurrection, which was the first resurrection.

revelation 16:20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

I believe satan was crushed under the foot of the Church following the complete removal of the old covenant system in 66-70ad. However, I'm not sure if I believe satan has already faced the 2nd death.

 

[claninja]

No, Abram was 52 when God called him to leave Ur. He was 99 when God made a Covenant with him.
Yo seem to be just searching for any kind of way to confuse this issue.

Abram was ~75 when he left haran. Abram left Haran when Terah died at 205. Therefore, Abram was born when Terah was around ~130.

The promise was given to Abram when he was around 75.

genesis 12:1-7
Now the LORD saida to Abram, “Go from your countryb and your kindred and your father’s house to the land that I will show you. And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” So Abram went, as the LORD had told him, and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran. 5And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother’s son, and all their possessions that they had gathered, and the people that they had acquired in Haran, and they set out to go to the land of Canaan. When they came to the land of Canaan, 6Abram passed through the land to the place at Shechem, to the oakd of Moreh. At that time the Canaanites were in the land. Then the LORD appeared to Abram and said, “To your offspring I will give this land.” So he built there an altar to the LORD, who had appeared to him.

God then confirmed the promise in Genesis 15 through the covenantal tradition of walking through sacrificed animals, PRIOR to abram being 86 years old (genesis 16:16).

God then confirmed the promise again through the covenant of circumcision in genesis 17, when abraham was 99 years old (genesis 17:1)

The seal of circumcision was a symbol of Abrams righteousness for faith in the promises of God. The seal of circumcision came AFTER the promise.

Romans 4:9-12 s this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. 11He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

I don't mess with plainly stated scripture. 1 Kings 6:1 is clear.

The septuagint, which comes prior to the masoretic text, records 440 years instead of 480 years. I'm assuming you reject the septuagint even though it is quoted from often in the NT?

1 kings 6:1 (LXX) And it came to pass in the four hundred and fortieth year after the departure of the children of Israel out of Egypt, in the fourth year and second month of the reign of king Solomon over Israel,

Paul's statement is also clear: The Law was given at Mt Sinai 430 years [not 450] after the Covenant with Abraham. This time includes; Isaac, Jacob and the 12 sons of Jacob and their time in Egypt, incl their Exodus as far as Sinai.

I'm not talking about galatians 3:

galatians 3:17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.


I'm talking about acts 13. Should it be understood as +40 years wandering in the desert + ~450 years of the times of the judges leading up to samuel? or should the 450 years include the 40 of wandering in the desert?

Acts 13:17-22 he God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it. And about the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness. And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Chanaan, he divided their land to them by lot. And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet. And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years. And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

Why argue a simple math calculation?
The known dates of 586 BC to 29.5 AD = 615.5 which includes 2 years to suit our calendar system of counting years at their commencement.
To further explain this difference, this year is 2021, but only 2020 years - now plus 1 month, have passed. therefore, when counting a set number of years between 2 dates on our Gregorian calendar over the BC/AD changeover, we must add a year at each end for the fully completed time period. It isn't necessary for time periods within BC or AD, as the start and finish dates are both at the commencement. [It is quite hard to really understand this issue, blame Dennis the Short; Dionysus, the not so bright monk who compiled the Gregorian calendar.]
For the actual elapsed years, from Adam of 3386.5, plus the elapsed years of 613.5 until Jesus was Baptized, was a total of 4000 years.

Your choice; believe God's perfect Plan, or reject it and remain in the dark.

1.) There are hundreds of different chronologies by different authors. Why yours is the 100% accurate one and I should just accept it or remain in the dark, is quite the proud statement.

2.) You are using your interpretations of scripture to promote the millennial day theory, which, according to your own calculations, predicts Jesus will come and initiate his millennial reign in 9.5 years.

3.) You have had previous errors in prediction, causing you to push the goal posts farther, so please understand why I may have to take your predictions with a grain of salt.

 

[claninja]

I believe the first resurrection spoken of in Revelation and no where else is a first and second resurrection mentioned according to this Bible studier, is our being born again...see Ephesians 5:14;
see...

1.) I believe the first resurrection to be Christ:

John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life.

colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

acts 26:23 that the Christ must suffer and that, by being the first to rise from the dead, he would proclaim light both to our people and to the Gentiles.”

1 corinthians 15:20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

2.) I believe that those that partake Christ's death and resurrection are raised out of spiritual death to walk in the newness of life, to be a kingdom of priests, and never be hurt by the 2nd death.

ephesians 2:4-7 Butc God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

colossans 2:12-14 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

romans 6:3-4 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

John 11:26 and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

1 peter 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

I believe this is describing a born again experience and it is metaphorically stated as if it were a 1st resurrection from the dead...we were dead in our sins until Christ gave us faith.
The second resurrection is Judgement Day.

There are only 2 bodily resurrection events in scripture:

1.) Christ
2.) Judgment day

Our being raised from spiritual death is not a bodily resurrection. Our being raised from spiritual death to remain in Christ guarantees our future resurrection.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

1.) I believe the first resurrection to be Christ:

John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life.

colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

acts 26:23 that the Christ must suffer and that, by being the first to rise from the dead, he would proclaim light both to our people and to the Gentiles.”

1 corinthians 15:20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

2.) I believe that those that partake Christ's death and resurrection are raised out of spiritual death to walk in the newness of life, to be a kingdom of priests, and never be hurt by the 2nd death.

ephesians 2:4-7 Butc God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

colossans 2:12-14 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

romans 6:3-4 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

John 11:26 and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

1 peter 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.



There are only 2 bodily resurrection events in scripture:

1.) Christ
2.) Judgment day

Our being raised from spiritual death is not a bodily resurrection. Our being raised from spiritual death to remain in Christ guarantees our future resurrection.

I agree that Christ is the first fruits of those risen from the dead, of course.
Jesus Christ was born from above and also true man in which state He died a physical death and rose from the dead.
Some of your other passages are describing that we are born again just as Jesus taught Nicodemus. I believe that Revelation is just that, a revelation, which needs an interpretation just as we see in the book of Daniel...this is not new to you I suppose, but mention it here to try to convey my own understanding of the Revelation. We have no mention of two deaths in all of Scripture until this Revelation and so it is subject to interpretation such is the nature of a Revelation. Hence I conclude that the passages you cite here referring to believers being dead in our sins until we come to faith are referring to our rebirth which by mutual exclusion can also refer to spiritual death for those who remain in their sins and are not born again, did not experience rebirth or had not risen from the "metaphoric" death (the 1st Resurrection spoken of in Revelation ...those who did not "come alive"), but rather spiritual death is being referred to and not physical death.
Our differences are that you seem to believe that the 1st resurrection spoken of in the Revelation is only Christ (while I believe He is the first fruits from physical death) while we die to sin and live by the Spirit...are born again...resurrected from the dead so to speak, a metaphor in Revelation.

 

[Timtofly]

Absolutely agree. IMHO, the importance of specific dates and times were for understanding the "fullness of time" when Christ was to come into the world in the flesh.

I believe using it to predict when Christ will return is inappropriate (ie the millennial day theory).

The Second Coming is going to be Christ come into the world in the flesh. This time God on the throne is going to be with Him. Matthew 21:39-40

39 So they grabbed him, threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40 Now when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”

The Son is coming back with the owner of the vineyard. The church is the current tenant.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

1.) I believe the first resurrection to be Christ:

John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life.

colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

acts 26:23 that the Christ must suffer and that, by being the first to rise from the dead, he would proclaim light both to our people and to the Gentiles.”

1 corinthians 15:20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

2.) I believe that those that partake Christ's death and resurrection are raised out of spiritual death to walk in the newness of life, to be a kingdom of priests, and never be hurt by the 2nd death.

ephesians 2:4-7 Butc God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

colossans 2:12-14 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

romans 6:3-4 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

John 11:26 and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

1 peter 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.



There are only 2 bodily resurrection events in scripture:

1.) Christ
2.) Judgment day

Our being raised from spiritual death is not a bodily resurrection. Our being raised from spiritual death to remain in Christ guarantees our future resurrection.

I neglected to actually tie my points to you together. You neglect in my view that there are 2 deaths mentioned in Revelation.The first resurrection...which some do not experience is, IMO, the first death for those that were not born again which point in my view is a must because Revelation 20:14 mentions the second death...again, this is for unbelievers, who did not experience rebirth, Revelation says this is the 2nd death Revelation 20:14-15.
This explanation is at least in agreement with the other descriptions of Judgement Day given in Scripture...especially where it is spelled out clearly in I Thessalonians 4:13-18 and I Corinthians 15:35-58.

 

[keras]

1.) There are hundreds of different chronologies by different authors. Why yours is the 100% accurate one and I should just accept it or remain in the dark, is quite the proud statement.

2.) You are using your interpretations of scripture to promote the millennial day theory, which, according to your own calculations, predicts Jesus will come and initiate his millennial reign in 9.5 years.

3.) You have had previous errors in prediction, causing you to push the goal posts farther, so please understand why I may have to take your predictions with a grain of salt.

Yes; many have had a go at finding out God's timings for mankind.
Bishop Ussher was and still generally believed to have got it right, with Adam created in 4004 BC.
However, according to Daniel 12:10, the truth of what will happen in the end times, will only be known to a few just before it all happens.

How can you say I use my interpretation, when all I do is the quote the verses and add up the times given?
Actually re the 9.5 years; I think that maybe the 3 1/2 year time that Jesus was on earth should be added to it.

It seems that you use a lot of salt! That will harden your arteries.

 

[nolidad]

You don't believe He is currently King of kings and Lord of lords? What Jesus do you believe in? I believe in the Jesus who is currently King of kings and Lord of lords.

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Ephesians 1:19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

He is King, just not reigning yet! His rule will begin when He returns. For now, Satan is still the temporary ruler of the world and the god of this world.

YOu really can't believe that teh earth with all its evil is under the full authority of Jesus? this is not how the earth will function when the king returns as SCripture clearly shows!

Hebrews 7:25
King James Version

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.


Currently th eking is preparing a place in His Father house for His bride the church and is making intercession for His bride. When the Father tell sHIm, He returns and vanquishes the forces of earth and establish HIs kingdom on earth as written. But He is not reigning over the earth as of yet!

 

[Victor in Christ]

None of us know if the 1000 years are literal or not, until the last Jew and Gentile will be saved and thee Anti-Christ will step forth. Why bother studying it brother and sister? go and evangelise the Gospel to the unsaved and help the Christian who's in the valley. You may be on the mountain top and wish to stay there with theology, eschatology, etc.....

what about The Storehouse in Malachi 3:10? Its a 3-fold storehouse in OT times, its still a 3 fold store house but with the priesthood being changed Hebrews 7:12, its now the church, the widows and orphans who have no income, then the stranger (the homeless).

Sort out your priorities before Christ comes and judges every single one of us.

 

[parousia70]

Our differences are that you seem to believe that the 1st resurrection spoken of in the Revelation is only Christ (while I believe He is the first fruits from physical death) while we die to sin and live by the Spirit...are born again...resurrected from the dead so to speak, a metaphor in Revelation.

Seems to me you two don't really have much a different interpretation.

claninja is correct.

You can't have a "First resurrection" that isn't actually "First".

The First Resurrection is not something Jesus does, it's something Jesus IS.

That bears repeating:

The First Resurrection is not something Jesus does, it's something Jesus IS.

"I am the resurrection and the Life"

Jesus Christ IS the First Resurrection, and on those that take part in it, the 2nd death has no power.

Jesus Christ was the first to rise out of the dead. Jesus was, literally, the "first resurrection." This fact, well attested by the writings of the New Testament, MUST form the basis for understanding Revelation 20:5-6:

"This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power" (Revelation 20:5-6)

The first resurrection was Jesus Christ:

Revelation 1:5

Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born out of the dead Acts 26:23
Christ should suffer and...be the first that should rise from the dead

Colossians 1:18
He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead

1 Corinthians 15:20
Christ hath risen out of the dead--the first-fruits of those sleeping he became


Jesus Christ was, plainly, the first resurrection. This fact forms the basis of St. John's depiction of the tribulation martyr saints becoming full partakers of the "first resurrection" in Revelation 20--everything Christ received by his death and resurrection is granted to them. Revelation 20:4-6, therefore, depicts the reality of Pauline theology concerning the identity Christ's followers had "in Him." Paul had taught that the saints were to become partakers of Christ's own reign and victory over death. Paul, with his detailed theology of our baptism into the very death and resurrection of Jesus (Rom 6:3-14), taught that the saints had co-resurrection and co-enthronement in the realized resurrection and enthronement of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 20:4-6 is a narrative depiction of the saints' realization of the glorious promise Paul held out for them in his teachings--the saints are depicted as having attained the goal for which they all strove. As Paul taught, their resurrection and reign was "in Christ," and their sufferings and martyrdoms were honored by God with the reward of partaking in Christ's own resurrection, enthronement, and reign. They realized the promise of Paul's teaching that the saints were truly to take part in the first resurrection, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Truly, on these the second death has no power (Rev 20:6).

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Seems to me you two don't really have much a different interpretation.

claninja is correct.

You can't have a "First resurrection" that isn't actually "First".

The First Resurrection is not something Jesus does, it's something Jesus IS.

That bears repeating:

The First Resurrection is not something Jesus does, it's something Jesus IS.

"I am the resurrection and the Life"

Jesus Christ IS the First Resurrection, and on those that take part in it, the 2nd death has no power.

Jesus Christ was the first to rise out of the dead. Jesus was, literally, the "first resurrection." This fact, well attested by the writings of the New Testament, MUST form the basis for understanding Revelation 20:5-6:

"This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power" (Revelation 20:5-6)

The first resurrection was Jesus Christ:

Revelation 1:5

Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born out of the dead Acts 26:23
Christ should suffer and...be the first that should rise from the dead

Colossians 1:18
He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead

1 Corinthians 15:20
Christ hath risen out of the dead--the first-fruits of those sleeping he became


Jesus Christ was, plainly, the first resurrection. This fact forms the basis of St. John's depiction of the tribulation martyr saints becoming full partakers of the "first resurrection" in Revelation 20--everything Christ received by his death and resurrection is granted to them. Revelation 20:4-6, therefore, depicts the reality of Pauline theology concerning the identity Christ's followers had "in Him." Paul had taught that the saints were to become partakers of Christ's own reign and victory over death. Paul, with his detailed theology of our baptism into the very death and resurrection of Jesus (Rom 6:3-14), taught that the saints had co-resurrection and co-enthronement in the realized resurrection and enthronement of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 20:4-6 is a narrative depiction of the saints' realization of the glorious promise Paul held out for them in his teachings--the saints are depicted as having attained the goal for which they all strove. As Paul taught, their resurrection and reign was "in Christ," and their sufferings and martyrdoms were honored by God with the reward of partaking in Christ's own resurrection, enthronement, and reign. They realized the promise of Paul's teaching that the saints were truly to take part in the first resurrection, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Truly, on these the second death has no power (Rev 20:6).

And, Amen to what you write! Jesus refers to this resurrection in Him as being born again when speaking to Nicodemus...which though you do not mention you seem to reiterate throughout your statement.
I believe many readers of the Revelation 20 chapter are believers of an entirely different persuasion when they go off on the literal 1000 year reign and believe there a two physical resurrections...I've written to such folks. The Second death is clearly stated while the first death takes a sorting out...it is the lack of rebirth. This is all I was trying to point out.