Futurist Only Revelation 17: Antichrist Reigns Twice?

[Timtofly]

The AoD is the AC and the GT starts when the 6th trump sounds.

So there are 7 Seals and 5 Trumpets even before the GT? Then the GT is 1 Trumpet and 7 Thunders?

Why can't all 6 Trumpets be the GT, the time of Jacob's trouble? The 7th Trumpet is when the AoD starts, because the week of the 7th Trumpet is split in half. 3.5 days, then Satan's 42 months start, of AoD. Then the last 3.5 days after the 42 months is over, when the vials are poured out.

It is those 42 months when Satan is in control that are utter abomination. There is no Atonement to cover salvation, ie the daily sacrifice taken away. The choice is to receive the mark or chop your head off to avoid receiving the mark. It has to be a spiritual choice between a human and God, as God is the one removing one's name from the Lamb's book of life.

The GT is when Jesus is separating the sheep from the goats. Both sheep and goats are removed from the earth. The sheep come back at Armageddon or the start of the Millennium if the week of the 7th Trumpet is not split in half.

 

[ewq1938]

So there are 7 Seals and 5 Trumpets even before the GT?

Yes.

Why can't all 6 Trumpets be the GT, the time of Jacob's trouble?

Right before the 7th trump sounds, the two prophets are killed which means their 1260 days is over, which is the same period of time as the 42 months. That means the full 42 months/1260 days happens within the 6th trump. The other 5 trumps are pre-trib events, the birth pangs Christ spoke of.

The 7th Trumpet is when the AoD starts

No. The 7th trump is the second coming. The only thing starting then is the wrath of God.

 

[Timtofly]

No. The 7th trump is the second coming. The only thing starting then is the wrath of God.

This is not how Revelation is written by John. It is not even read that way.

The 6th Trumpet and 2nd woe is over before the 7 Thunders.

The 2 witnesses are after the 7th Trumpet starts to sound. The 42 months and Satan AoD are after the 7th Trumpet starts to sound. The explanation of the 7th Trumpet starts in Revelation 10. Revelation 11 is a parenthetical on the 7th Trumpet.

Revelation 12 is a parenthetical on the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 13 is a parenthetical on the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 14 is after the 7th Trumpet stops sounding.

Revelation 15 through 19 are if the AoD happens and the 7th Trumpet is split into two halves. The vials are poured out on the last half of the 7th Trumpet after the 42 month interruption. The 3.5 days the 2 witnesses are dead is the last half of the 7th Trumpet, and also the days the 7 vials are poured out. The 7th Trumpet stops at the end of the 1 hour battle of Armageddon.

 

[keras]

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The faithful are the targets of the GT. They are not protected in a safe place but rather targeted and killed. Some survive but many are killed as the 5th seal and Rev 13 and 19 mention. What happened in Rev 12 is before the GT begins. Satan's failure to harm the woman is why he starts the GT war against the church.

The prophesies say the Christians will be divided into 2 groups. Daniel 11:32 and Zechariah 14:2 both mention this separation.
Only the ones faithful to the Covenant, will go to the place of safety; Rev 12:14, the rest must remain, Rev 12:17

 

[keras]

No. The 7th trump is the second coming. The only thing starting then is the wrath of God.

This idea is obviously wrong. Revelation 11:15-18 is just a proclamation. The glorious Return does not come until the Seventh Bowl; Armageddon.

Revelation 15 through 19 are if the AoD happens and the 7th Trumpet is split into two halves. The vials are poured out on the last half of the 7th Trumpet after the 42 month interruption. The 3.5 days the 2 witnesses are dead is the last half of the 7th Trumpet, and also the days the 7 vials are poured out. The 7th Trumpet stops at the end of the 1 hour battle of Armageddon.

You may be right, but the best policy is to not make wild assertions about the sequence of Prophecy.
You are very confident in your beliefs. Will you stand strong in your faith when disaster strikes? Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7

 

[ewq1938]

This idea is obviously wrong. Revelation 11:15-18 is just a proclamation. The glorious Return does not come until the Seventh Bowl; Armageddon.

Which is found in Rev 19 where teh second coming has happened BEFORE the battle of Armageddon begins proving that the second coming does take place before that, at the 7th trump as proclaimed.

 

[Timtofly]

You may be right, but the best policy is to not make wild assertions about the sequence of Prophecy.
You are very confident in your beliefs. Will you stand strong in your faith when disaster strikes? Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7

Patiently waiting.

 

[keras]

Which is found in Rev 19 where teh second coming has happened BEFORE the battle of Armageddon begins proving that the second coming does take place before that, at the 7th trump as proclaimed.

Basically, Armageddon happens at the Return.
They do not happen at the Seventh Trumpet.

 

[ewq1938]

Basically, Armageddon happens at the Return.
They do not happen at the Seventh Trumpet.

The return is the 7th trump and is the same day as Armageddon. You can even see Christ descending with armies from heaven following him.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

 

[keras]

The return is the 7th trump and is the same day as Armageddon. You can even see Christ descending with armies from heaven following him.

The 7 Bowls must come before the glorious Return.

Revelation 11:15-17 speaks about the future Return, and Revelation 11:18 refers to the past Sixth Seal - Day of the Lord's wrath.
Revelation 11:19 is the only thing which will actually happen when the Seventh Trumpet is blown.

 

[ewq1938]

The 7 Bowls must come before the glorious Return.

I disagree. The return must come first because the 7th trump is the return and Rev 11 says the wrath of God comes after the 7th trump, and the bowls are the wrath of God so they cannot precede the return.

 

[keras]

I disagree. The return must come first because the 7th trump is the return and Rev 11 says the wrath of God comes after the 7th trump, and the bowls are the wrath of God so they cannot precede the return.

A blatant re-arrangement of the Book of Revelation. Not wise!
Revelation 11:13-17 does not say Jesus Returns at that time.

 

[ewq1938]

A blatant re-arrangement of the Book of Revelation. Not wise!
Revelation 11:13-17 does not say Jesus Returns at that time.

Other scripture mentions He comes at the last trump, and in Rev 11 we have the last of the trumps. It's very standard and correct that Christ comes at the 7th trump thus there was never any re-arrangement of the Book of Revelation. You also avoided the fact that the wrath of God comes at the 7th trump so it is literally impossible scripturally for the bowls of wrath to come before the 7th trump.

 

[dfw69]

Other scripture mentions He comes at the last trump,

You mean last day? for the last trump that Paul mentioned refers to Jesus sounding the second trump to change us into immortal bodies in a twinkle of an eye

and in Rev 11 we have the last of the trumps. It's very standard and correct that Christ comes at the 7th trump thus there was never any re-arrangement of the Book of Revelation. You also avoided the fact that the wrath of God comes at the 7th trump so it is literally impossible scripturally for the bowls of wrath to come before the 7th trump.

Christ does not come at the 7th trumpet ,the wrath ends with the 7 vails being poured out
the wrath began at the 6th seal

 

[keras]

Other scripture mentions He comes at the last trump, and in Rev 11 we have the last of the trumps. It's very standard and correct that Christ comes at the 7th trump thus there was never any re-arrangement of the Book of Revelation. You also avoided the fact that the wrath of God comes at the 7th trump so it is literally impossible scripturally for the bowls of wrath to come before the 7th trump.

You are wrong, proved by how the Seventh Bowl is Armageddon, Revelation 16:16-18
The earthquake in verse 18 is parallel with the one on Revelation 11:13, at the end of the Great Trib.

 

[Oseas]

The antichrist will reign first over the 10 horns which are the 10 tribes of Israel that will form during the false messianic age

They have one mind which is to destroy mystery Babylon which has reign over them during the false messianic age

Then they will seek to unite judah kingdom with the help of the false prophet of Judah and the 10 tribes of Israel thus form the beast with 2 horns

They will wage war against the lamb but the lamb will defeat them

Note it seems to me that the 10 horns are just territorial until the antichrist comes and forms 10 kingdoms out of that existing territory

Good and very important post of you. The LITERAL fulfillment of the prophecies above described is at door. The intention of our Lord JESUS Christ through the revelation above was to show to His people the last happenings of the END OF THE TIMES, time of the Apocalypse, and also of the last week of years, the week 70th Daniel 9:v.27, divided in two periods of 42 months or 1260 days.

The question is: Who is going to allow and authorize the Gentiles to trample the holy city of Jerusalem?
The Dragon will allow. But how?

According Revelation 13:v.2-John says: And the Beast which I saw (the Beast of sea) was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion(these figures reveal the ROOTS of the Beast of sea, of course,-a Gentilic Beast, right?): and the Dragon -the Beast of earth-Revelation 13:v.11-gave him his Power, and his Seat, and great Authority. Thus, with the fulfillment of this prophecy the Beast of sea-a Gentile MAN Beast- will sit in the Throne of the false messiah in the holy city, and then the holy city will be trodden by multitudes of Gentile peoples of all nations-Revelation 11:2. All the world will wonder after the Beast and they will worship the Dragon which gave power unto the Beast-to the Beast of sea-Revelation 13:3-4. (I think there will be a lot of religious tourism or tourist movements to Jerusalem. In the pulpit of the Churches and sects will be preached: Christ (NOT JESUS) came back, and are doing great signs in the midst of the people, so if possible even elects will be deceived)
NOTE: Sea mean waters, and waters mean peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues-Revelation 17:v.15

My interpretation of JESUS's revelation is that: FIRST a Jewish false messiah will manifest himself in Israel, in LITERAL fulfillment of John 5:43-47, here JESUS prophesied concerning the appearance of a false messiah in Israel. In Revelation 13:v.11-18, around 65 years after His ascension, our LORD confirms the appearance of that ruthless false messiah and describes all his satanic works.
Paul apostle also prophesied about the manifestation of the false messiah, the esoteric, and kabbalistic and SPIRITIST false messiah of the Jews-2 Thes.2: 2-12.
With this terrible happening there will be TWO religious Beasts working satanically on Earth, the Gentile MAN Beast of sea, and the Jewish MAN Beast of the earth, a Beast like a lamb with two horns, but speaks as Dragon-Revelation 13:v.11-18. And he will rule Israel and also will be the main guide of the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist Judaism, because he is a profound knowing Torah, and a versed master of the Old Testament, .

That said, with the LITERAL fulfillment of Revelation 13, there will be TWO Beasts reigning in the Earth, and then will fulfill also LITERALLY Daniel 2:41to.45. Amen.

The birthplace, or the cradle of Antichrist, was the own Church, unfortunately, see how.

The Antichrist was born and rose up from the own Church-See how

Yes, the birthplace, or the cradle of Antichrist, was the own Church, unfortunately, see how. 1 John 2:v.18-19 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that...

purebibleforum.com

 

[dfw69]

Good and very important post of you. The LITERAL fulfillment of the prophecies above described is at door.

Hi oseas how are you ?

If I’m interpreting the scriptures correctly then I don’t believe we are at the door
for the false prophet and final antichrist to appear

The intention of our Lord JESUS Christ through the revelation above was to show to His people the last happenings of the END OF THE TIMES, time of the Apocalypse, and also of the last week of years, the week 70th Daniel 9:v.27, divided in two periods of 42 months or 1260 days.

Yes

The question is: Who is going to allow and authorize the Gentiles to trample the holy city of Jerusalem?
The Dragon will allow. But how?

According Revelation 13:v.2-John says: And the Beast which I saw (the Beast of sea) was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion(these figures reveal the ROOTS of the Beast of sea, of course,-a Gentilic Beast, right?):

I believe so

and the Dragon -the Beast of earth-Revelation 13:v.11-gave him his Power, and his Seat, and great Authority. Thus, with the fulfillment of this prophecy the Beast of sea-a Gentile MAN Beast- will sit in the Throne of the false messiah in the holy city, and then the holy city will be trodden by multitudes of Gentile peoples of all nations-Revelation 11:2. All the world will wonder after the Beast and they will worship the Dragon which gave power unto the Beast-to the Beast of sea-Revelation 13:3-4. (

Yes

I think there will be a lot of religious tourism or tourist movements to Jerusalem. In the pulpit of the Churches and sects will be preached: Christ (NOT JESUS) came back, and are doing great signs in the midst of the people, so if possible even elects will be deceived)

Maybe but for what purpose? Who is this Christ? If it’s a Jewish messiah then the false messianic age begins and persecution of Jesus believers

NOTE: Sea mean waters, and waters mean peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues-Revelation 17:v.15

Yes

My interpretation of JESUS's revelation is that: FIRST a Jewish false messiah will manifest himself in Israel, in LITERAL fulfillment of John 5:43-47, here JESUS prophesied concerning the appearance of a false messiah in Israel.

Yes he does say they will accept another who comes in his own name

In Revelation 13:v.11-18, around 65 years after His ascension, our LORD confirms the appearance of that ruthless false messiah and describes all his satanic works.
Paul apostle also prophesied about the manifestation of the false messiah, the esoteric, and kabbalistic and SPIRITIST false messiah of the Jews-2 Thes.2: 2-12.

Yes Jesus reveals him through John and Paul also mentioned him

With this terrible happening there will be TWO religious Beasts working satanically on Earth, the Gentile MAN Beast of sea, and the Jewish MAN Beast of the earth, a Beast like a lamb with two horns, but speaks as Dragon-Revelation 13:v.11-18. And he will rule Israel and also will be the main guide of the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist Judaism, because he is a profound knowing Torah, and a versed master of the Old Testament, .

That said, with the LITERAL fulfillment of Revelation 13, there will be TWO Beasts reigning in the Earth, and then will fulfill also LITERALLY Daniel 2:41to.45. Amen.

Yes there will be two prominent men in the last days

The birthplace, or the cradle of Antichrist, was the own Church, unfortunately, see how.

The Antichrist was born and rose up from the own Church-See how

Yes, the birthplace, or the cradle of Antichrist, was the own Church, unfortunately, see how. 1 John 2:v.18-19 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that...

purebibleforum.com

Interesting I don’t believe I’ve seen this before thanks for the revelation

 

[dfw69]

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The antichrist is not the beast (out of the sea), the antichrist (beast out of the land) is the false prophet. The antichrist directs worship to the beast (out of the sea) Paul's man of sin.

If they both are fighting against the lamb and his throne are they not technically both antichrist?

 

[Oseas]

Hi oseas how are you ?

If I’m interpreting the scriptures correctly then I don’t believe we are at the door
for the false prophet and final antichrist to appear

Hi dfw69
I'm fine thankyou. Hitherto has the Lord helped us.
Thankyou for your reply, It was a pleasure to hear from you.

In my view, the manifestation of antichrist will happen in this current decade -2020/2030.
According biblical Chronology, we already entered in the first century of the seventh and last millennium or seventh and last Day, the LORD's Day, and the Kingdom of GOD will be established in this millennium-Revelation 11:v.15-18 and Matthew 5:5, among many other references.

Furthermore, according Matthew 24, we have just entered in the beginning of sorrows, I say this because our LORD listed several happenings from the verse 3 to 8, which are fulfilling LITERALLY in this current time.
And the worst will still come according verses 9 to 25. It will be a terrible period, but a very terrible period of time for us, for the true believers. As JESUS said in the verse 13: But he that shall endure unto the END, the same shall be saved.

By the way, speaking of the END, 1 Corinthians 15:v.24-27 and Philippians 3:v.20-21 among others, reveal great happenings of the END time, and what we must do from now on. Take a look.

May our Lord GOD bless us and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen

 

[d taylor]

If they both are fighting against the lamb and his throne are they not technically both antichrist?

Well actually antichrist is defined by The Bible as

and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.