Revelation 12

[Choose Wisely]

What are your opinions on these verses?

Revelation 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.



Just asking opinions.
1. Who is the woman? How do you conclude your response?

2. Who is the dragon making war with? Is it the church, or someone else and why do you think so.
Rev 12
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

3. When in Revelation does the dragon get cast to the earth? Is it Revelation 1, Revelation 10, Revelation 16 etc.

4. Does the dragon make war with the woman before the tribulation, in the middle of the tribulation or after the tribulation?

5. Any other details you can add that you notice?

Thanks

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Choose Wisely]

First, look at how the end of Rev. 11 will not make a smooth link to chapter 12.

great hail.....no damage report
and then - John starts to see wonders/signs in heaven

Revelation 12 belongs clear back by Rev. 7 where John saw it happen.

Revelation 12 - a wonder...another wonder...
a dragon is seen -
Revelation 13 - the dragon
a beast

leading to Rev. 15 - another sign\seven angels
the seven angels
They will leave the temple in this chapter, because they are the sealing angels that John would soon see coming out of the east in Rev. 7 -as ascending.
...saw another angel ascending
This angel speaks, and refers to being in a set of -we-angels.
four angels stand
and a set of -we- angels goes about sealing people for protection

The set of sealing angels returns to heaven to stand before God and announce how many people they have sealed.
The four angels that stood on the four corners of the earth will bring the burning of some of the trees...and other trumpet plagues.

to whom it was given/delivered/handed to
to harm - the earth, the sea, the trees
/as in the trumpet plagues

I'm concluding that you are only answering question 5.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Dave Watchman]

Just asking opinions.
1. Who is the woman? How do you conclude your response?

The Church. God's People.

It happened. Necessity WAS the mother of invention. God's People needed a Savior. If mankind had not fallen, no Savior would be required. The woman gave birth to the man child.

2. Who is the dragon making war with? Is it the church, or someone else and why do you think so.
Rev 12
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The Church. God's People. Talk to the Waldensians at the Peidmont Easter during the Foxe Book days. They'll tell you they are the souls beneath the alter. Two groups of people. They are the first group, the second group will join them there.

"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.​

The dragon chased the woman, now he's prepared to go after the rest of her offspring.

Waldensians - Wikipedia

3. When in Revelation does the dragon get cast to the earth? Is it Revelation 1, Revelation 10, Revelation 16 etc.

Revelation 1. Revelation 12. Resurrection Sunday.

"Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
​

4. Does the dragon make war with the woman before the tribulation, in the middle of the tribulation or after the tribulation?

As soon as he saw he was cast down to earth. The official prophetic time period was from 538 until 1798. She was nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. She was nourished, kept alive. Not allowed to be destroyed. It wasn't the same as Dave Pack's idea of Petra, or a "Place of safety".

5. Any other details you can add that you notice?

In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue. There were four blood moons, and God was opening up a new continent. It would become the "earth" who would swallow the flood that spewed forth from the dragon's mouth.

The "earth" helped the "woman".

Thanks

At Your Service.

 

[Choose Wisely]

The Church. God's People.

It happened. Necessity WAS the mother of invention. God's People needed a Savior. If mankind had not fallen, no Savior would be required. The woman gave birth to the man child.



The Church. God's People. Talk to the Waldensians at the Peidmont Easter during the Foxe Book days. They'll tell you they are the souls beneath the alter. Two groups of people. They are the first group, the second group will join them there.

"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.​

The dragon chased the woman, now he's prepared to go after the rest of her offspring.

Waldensians - Wikipedia



Revelation 1. Revelation 12. Resurrection Sunday.

"Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
​

As soon as he saw he was cast down to earth. The official prophetic time period was from 538 until 1798. She was nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. She was nourished, kept alive. Not allowed to be destroyed. It wasn't the same as Dave Pack's idea of Petra, or a "Place of safety".



In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue. There were four blood moons, and God was opening up a new continent. It would become the "earth" who would swallow the flood that spewed forth from the dragon's mouth.

The "earth" helped the "woman".



At Your Service.

Very unique response. Haven't heard that before.

 

[Choose Wisely]

The dragon will chase Israel/the woman/ and the church/those that have the testimony of Jesus Christ. John had this same testimony. It caused him to be on the isle of Patmos.

So you are saying that Israel is the woman and the church and those that have the testimony of Jesus Christ in the last verse.

 

[Douggg]

W
1. Who is the woman? How do you conclude your response?

Israel. The woman gives birth to the messiah - unto us a child is borne. Israel - 100% certain.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

2. Who is the dragon making war with? Is it the church, or someone else and why do you think so.

Rev 12
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Michael and his angels. Corresponds to Daniel 12:1

3. When in Revelation does the dragon get cast to the earth? Is it Revelation 1, Revelation 10, Revelation 16 etc.

It can not be determined to the exact day on the 2520 day 7 year timeline. But it will be shortly after day 1263.5 and the 7th trumpet sounding. Satan is seen as the star falling from heaven in Revelation 9 who has been tossed (my words) the keys to open the bottomless pit, as he is forced down to earth by Michael and his angels.

Satan and his angels cast to earth is Babylon the Great is fallen is fallen - in Revelation 18. Babylon the Great is title of Satan and his angels' kingdom.

4. Does the dragon make war with the woman before the tribulation, in the middle of the tribulation or after the tribulation?

The question is loaded because it does not say the dragon makes "war" with the woman. It does say in Revelation 12:17 the dragon makes war against the remainder of her seed - which is a very specific group of Jews - the ones who did not flee into the mountains in time.

The ones who did flee in time, are the ones in Revelation 12:14-16, who will be Supernaturally protected.

Satan has made war against the entire human race ever since Adam and Eve.

Specific to Revelation 12:14, for the time times half times he has left, he seeks to persecute the woman. The time times half time is ~ the second half of the seven years.

Satan will also incarnate the image of the beast - after being cast down - at times to make it appear to come alive and speak, by being the divine spirit (claiming to be by the false prophet). Blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. To fulfill Revelation 13:

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5. Any other details you can add that you notice?

In Revelation 12:6, it is the first 1260 days of the 7 years, the testimony time of the two witnesses. Which during that time near the end Israel flees into the wilderness because the image of the beast has been made and set in the temple. It will not be animated at that time, because Satan will not have been forced down to earth yet.

In Revelation 12:17, those are the ones in Israel, who do not escape in time and will have to endure the great tribulation until Jesus returns to rescue them in Zechariah 14. They keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus, because....

After going through the colossus disaster of thinking the Antichrist is their messiah, they turn to Jesus and embrace the gospel. Revelation 12:10-11 is about Salvation finally being embraced by Israel, the Jews.

Revelation 12 is about the 7 years specific to Israel, the Jews. It is not directed at any other group. That is not to say that there will not be the multitude of others come to Christ during the Day of Lord beginning years when things will be so tough - and the church having left the world, gone in the resurrection/ rapture..

___________________________________________________________

One more thing - the heaven Satan and his angels are cast down from is the second heaven, which we would call the cosmos. It is not the third heaven, where God's throne is.

Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

There place not found there any more will be literal - because in the sixth seal, near the end of the time times half time that Satan will have left - the cosmos will be
parted and the world see to the third heaven and Jesus before the throne of God and the heavenly host of angels and saints.

I think I have pretty much covered Revelation 12, all of the verses.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Israel. The woman gives birth to the messiah - unto us a child is borne. Israel - 100% certain.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.




Michael and his angels. Corresponds to Daniel 12:1


It can not be determined to the exact day on the 2520 day 7 year timeline. But it will be shortly after day 1263.5 and the 7th trumpet sounding. Satan is seen as the star falling from heaven in Revelation 9 who has been tossed (my words) the keys to open the bottomless pit, as he is forced down to earth by Michael and his angels.

Satan and his angels cast to earth is Babylon the Great is fallen is fallen - in Revelation 18. Babylon the Great is title of Satan and his angels' kingdom.

The question is loaded because it does not say the dragon makes "war" with the woman. It does say in Revelation 12:17 the dragon makes war against the remainder of her seed - which is a very specific group of Jews - the ones who did not flee into the mountains in time.

The ones who did flee in time, are the ones in Revelation 12:14-16, who will be Supernaturally protected.

Satan has made war against the entire human race ever since Adam and Eve.

Specific to Revelation 12:14, for the time times half times he has left, he seeks to persecute the woman. The time times half time is ~ the second half of the seven years.

Satan will also incarnate the image of the beast - after being cast down - at times to make it appear to come alive and speak, by being the divine spirit (claiming to be by the false prophet). Blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. To fulfill Revelation 13:

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?



In Revelation 12:6, it is the first 1260 days of the 7 years, the testimony time of the two witnesses. Which during that time near the end Israel flees into the wilderness because the image of the beast has been made and set in the temple. It will not be animated at that time, because Satan will not have been forced down to earth yet.

In Revelation 12:17, those are the ones in Israel, who do not escape in time and will have to endure the great tribulation until Jesus returns to rescue them in Zechariah 14. They keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus, because....

After going through the colossus disaster of thinking the Antichrist is their messiah, they turn to Jesus and embrace the gospel. Revelation 12:10-11 is about Salvation finally being embraced by Israel, the Jews.

Revelation 12 is about the 7 years specific to Israel, the Jews. It is not directed at any other group. That is not to say that there will not be the multitude of others come to Christ during the Day of Lord beginning years when things will be so tough - and the church having left the world, gone in the resurrection/ rapture..

___________________________________________________________

One more thing - the heaven Satan and his angels are cast down from is the second heaven, which we would call the cosmos. It is not the third heaven, where God's throne is.

Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

There place not found there any more will be literal - because in the sixth seal, near the end of the time times half time that Satan will have left - the cosmos will be
parted and the world see to the third heaven and Jesus before the throne of God and the heavenly host of angels and saints.

I think I have pretty much covered Revelation 12, all of the verses.

Thanks Douggg

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

the vision of Joseph is when he saw the sun moon and 11 stars bow down before him. Jacob said shall I your mother and brothers bow down before you. This mention of 11 stars is Israel, Joseph missing being the 12th star as he would not bow down to himself. The seed of the woman prophecy follows the genealogy to Abraham where he was to become a great nations and in his seed singular all the nations would be blessed. The seed of the woman in Revelation follows all the way to the virgin birth of Jesus. The woman is Israel. The seed of woman also goes back to the Gen account where there is enmity between the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman. The LORD will crush the head of the serpent. The dragon obviously is Satan. Daniel 9 the 70 weeks is lined up with Rev and speaks of the middle of the week the daily sacrifices is stopped and the abomination of desolation occurs. In Rev 13 we see the antichrist is given power and authority for 42 months (this is exactly the middle of the week in dan 9 7 years times 12 months is 84 months the mid point would be 42) and this is when the mark of the beast comes into to play. Dan 7 lays a parallel account of this and holds the similar timeline. Where at the end of the 42 months the beast is thrown into the fire and the kingdom is established. Rev 20 says Satan is bound for 1000 years and released Dan 7 says it like this.
11 “I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.
13 “I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.

7 ‘Those great beasts, which are four, are four kings[fn] which arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever.’
19 “Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20 and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.
21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.
23 “Thus he said:
‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute[fn] the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.
26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’

If you take the time to make notes of all the specifics we see this king to come is given dominion for a times times and half a time again 3 and a half years. He is allowed to persecute the saints and in Rev 12 it seems many of Israel has the testimony of Jesus now and non Jews who convert also are now persecuted big time in both Dan 7 and Rev 12. Note the dominion is taken away and he is thrown into the fire. but the test of the beasts it says As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time. This is in line with Satan losing dominion but not yet sent to his final damnation. The season is a 1000 years and the time will be when they are loosed at the end of the 1000 years. Jesus at the 2nd coming establishes the kingdom that will have no end. Satan is crushed and never gets any dominion again. When he is loosed their is one last test for those who lived through the 1000 years of Christ rule. then is the end of this age and the new Jerusalem will come down and the kingdom changes locations but the king is eternal and the kingdom will have no end.
This is what happens to the beast and false prophet but the rest of teh bease

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Choose Wisely,

We are now shown the scriptural identity of the Mighty Victor, Jesus Christ. He was the one foretold that would come & overthrow the enemy.


Christ`s Scriptural Identity.

In Genesis 3: 15 God foretold that the `seed,` of woman would crush the serpent, (Satan). The deliverer would come as a seed, not a tree, meaning not fully grown, & He would come from the woman & not from man. He would also come through God`s special nation of Israel. This is shown by the symbols `sun, moon & stars,` representing Jacob, Rachael & their 12 sons, the tribes of Israel. (Gen. 37: 9)

`Now a great sign appeared in heaven:
a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet,
& on her head a garland of twelve stars.`
(Rev. 12: 1)

Satan`s Scriptural Identity.

Next we see read of Satan`s origins. He came from the heavens to the area of the earth.
He had aspired to be as God but was cast down & with him a third of the angelic hosts.

`And another sign appeared in heaven:
behold, a fiery red dragon having 7 heads & ten horns, & seven diadems on his head.
His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven & threw them to the earth.`
(Rev. 12: 3 & 4)


This description of Satan reveals him as one who masquerades as an angel of light & then shows his authority over the kingdoms of this world. Note the word `seven,` in Heb. means to be complete. He has complete control over the kingdoms of the world.

Satan said, `All these things (kingdoms) I will give you.......`
(Matt. 4: 8 & 9)


Red – fire like – flame coloured, fig. lightning. (2 Cor. 11: 14 Luke 10: 18)

Dragon – a fabulous kind of serpent , to fascinate. (2 Thess. 2: 9)

7 heads – Complete authority. (1 John 5: 19)

7 diadems – Complete rulership. (Matt. 4: 8 & 9)

10 horns - Lawlessness, power. (Eph. 2: 2. 2 Thess. 2: 8 & 9)


`the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.`

(John 5: 19)

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Next we are given a summary of the attempts of Satan to destroy -


Jesus the Promised Child.

Jesus is the promised Son, the Child that Israel would bring forth to be the ruler of Israel & the kingdoms of the world.

`For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given;
& the government will be upon His shoulder.....
upon the throne of David & over His kingdom,.....
from that time forward, even forever.`
(Isaiah 9; 6 & 7)


Satan, through King Herod tried to kill Jesus when He was born. (Matt. 2: 16)


`Then being with child, she cried out in labour & in pain to give birth......
And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth,
to devour her Child as soon as it was born.` (Rev. 12: 2 & 3)


Jesus was born of David`s line, in the nation of Israel. He is their Messiah but they did not receive Him. After His crucifixion & resurrection, He ascended into heaven & is seated at the right hand of the Father on His throne ready to `rule the nations with a rod of iron.`

(Ps. 2: 9 Rev. 2: 27)


`She bore a male Child who was to rule the nations with a rod of iron.
And her Child was caught up to God & His throne.`

(Rev. 12: 5)


Israel, the Woman.


We now move in time from where Jesus was taken into heaven, to the time where He told Israel to `flee to the mountains.` (Matt. 24: 15 – 21)


`Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God,
that they should feed her there 1260 days.`
(Rev. 12: 6)



The archangel Michael, Israel`s `great Prince who stands guard` over them, is now brought into the battle to protect the nation from Satan & his evil angels. (Dan. 12: 1)


`And war broke out in heaven: Michael & his angels fought with the dragon;
& the dragon & his angels fought, but they did not prevail,
nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.`
(Rev. 12: 7 & 8)




`So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil & Satan,
who deceives the whole world; he was cast out to the earth,
& his angels were cast out with him.`
(Rev. 12: 9)

 

[Marilyn C]

Declaration of Christ`s Kingdom Rule.

This voice would be a representative of the Body of Christ - `our God,` our brethren.`


Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven,
“Now salvation, & strength, & the kingdom of our God, & the power of His Christ have come,
For the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before God day & night, has been cast down.
and they overcame him by the blood of the lamb & by the word of their testimony,
& they did not love their lives to the death.
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, & you who dwell in them!”
(Rev. 12: 10 – 12)



Then we see the outworking of this when Satan is cast to the earth & seeks to destroy Israel. The great `eagle,` is a symbolic picture of God who `bore them on eagle`s wings,` in times past. (Ex. 19: 4)


“ Woe to the inhabitants of the earth & the sea!
For the devil has come down to you having great wrath,
because he knows that he has a short time.”
(Rev. 12: 12)



`Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth,
He persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child.
But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle,
that she might fly into the wilderness to her place,
where she is nourished for a time & times & half a time, from the presence of the serpent.`
(Rev. 12: 13 & 14)



Satan then sends forth spirits of demons who go out to the kings of the whole world to gather them together for war against Israel. (Rev. 16: 13 – 16) The symbolic picture of this great world army is as a flood that covers the land. (Jer. 47: 1 & 2 has a similar picture.) After Christ has dealt with this great army the blood of the slain then soaks into the earth giving the picture of the earth `swallowing the flood.`

`So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman,
that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.
But the earth helped the woman, & the earth opened its mouth
& swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.`
(Rev. 12: 16)


We are also shown that it is not only Israel that Satan is against but those who have received the message of Christ, Israel`s Messiah & His coming kingdom.


`And the dragon was enraged with the woman,
& he went to make war with the rest of her offspring,
Who keep the commandments of God & have the testimony of Jesus Christ.`
(Rev. 12: 17)

Marilyn.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Choose Wisely]

The woman is Israel. The woman is not the church.

Gen 37
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
11 And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.


Rev 12
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

 

[BABerean2]

The woman is Israel. The woman is not the church.

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

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Thanks for posting this. As BABerean2 was kind enough to point out, there will come a day when Israel will come to know Christ as savior and Lord. It will happen just as prophesied.

So as we can see Israel is not the Church. However, there will come a time......after the pretribulation rapture.......when God will deal with His people, Israel, and they will recognize Jesus as the Christ.

 

[Choose Wisely]

The question is loaded because it does not say the dragon makes "war" with the woman. It does say in Revelation 12:17 the dragon makes war against the remainder of her seed - which is a very specific group of Jews - the ones who did not flee into the mountains in time.

The ones who did flee in time, are the ones in Revelation 12:14-16, who will be Supernaturally protected.

Rev 12
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Yes, the remnant of her seed are Jews and they now have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Which proves again that Israel is not the Church.

We already had enough information when BABerean2 was kind enough to make his post. This just solidifies the information that he provided. Israel is not the Church.


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[BABerean2]

Yes, the remnant of her seed are Jews and they now have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Which proves again that Israel is not the Church.

We already had enough information when BABerean2 was kind enough to make his post. This just solidifies the information that he provided. Israel is not the Church.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.



Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

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