Revelation 10: Secrete Vision VI

[Joyous Song]

“And when he shouted, the seven thunders shouted.” 3


These “seven thunders” are the seven Sifroth: Chesed - Gevurah - Tiferet - Netsach - Hod - Yesod - Mulcut or ZA and Mulcut. These are the same number above His head, Rev.10.1, and His shouting adds the Sun the conduit.

Thus He shouted out through this conduit and the mechanism that created all things by Him and through Him. The last time these sounded was at the beginning of Chapter eight, verse 5, just before the first trumpet was blown:


“Then the angle took the censor and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it to earth; and there were peals of thunder, voices, flashes of lightening, and an earthquake.”


That sounding preceded the end of one or more lands of Israel in a exiled kingdoms, 8.7-9, and event of the Tribulation, 10-12, and the Church crying out the woes, 13. It also foretold of two wars as a result of the comet, 9.1, one on Ephraim Temple 2-11, and the second a kind of Armageddon yet not exactly, 13-19, but ends with only the sinners continuing in their sins, 20-21 (so its not).

Yet here, at the onset, we learned this isn’t a physical destruction like 8 and 9, but a outpouring of His manifestation, His pure Light to those open to His Light. This matches one to one, Rev.14.1-5, the going out of the song. Further, in the very next chapter when action continues, the two witlessness/martyrs begin their mission. So this is a going forth like the Gospel of the first century but this is also a song, (Harmony) and a small scroll.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

“And when he shouted, the seven thunders shouted.” 3


These “seven thunders” are the seven Sifroth: Chesed - Gevurah - Tiferet - Netsach - Hod - Yesod - Mulcut or ZA and Mulcut. These are the same number above His head, Rev.10.1, and His shouting adds the Sun the conduit.

Thus He shouted out through this conduit and the mechanism that created all things by Him and through Him. The last time these sounded was at the beginning of Chapter eight, verse 5, just before the first trumpet was blown:


“Then the angle took the censor and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it to earth; and there were peals of thunder, voices, flashes of lightening, and an earthquake.”


That sounding preceded the end of one or more lands of Israel in a exiled kingdoms, 8.7-9, and event of the Tribulation, 10-12, and the Church crying out the woes, 13. It also foretold of two wars as a result of the comet, 9.1, one on Ephraim Temple 2-11, and the second a kind of Armageddon yet not exactly, 13-19, but ends with only the sinners continuing in their sins, 20-21 (so its not).

Yet here, at the onset, we learned this isn’t a physical destruction like 8 and 9, but a outpouring of His manifestation, His pure Light to those open to His Light. This matches one to one, Rev.14.1-5, the going out of the song. Further, in the very next chapter when action continues, the two witlessness/martyrs begin their mission. So this is a going forth like the Gospel of the first century but this is also a song, (Harmony) and a small scroll.

Hi John was going to write down the 7 thunders and was told not to for that information is sealed; so that pretty much makes your idea speculation and seems a bit on the esoteric side. It does note that when the 7th one has sounded that mystery of God as sounded through the prophets will be finished and in my view that is more of the focus. What did the prophets declare? I think it is the 2nd coming and Jesus is seen and all will know that He is God incarnate and that the kingdom has come on power and authority in great judgment along with great mercy. What a glorious day and a horrible path that proceeds this unveiling.

 

[Joyous Song]

Hi John was going to write down the 7 thunders and was told not to for that information is sealed; so that pretty much makes your idea speculation and seems a bit on the esoteric side. It does note that when the 7th one has sounded that mystery of God as sounded through the prophets will be finished and in my view that is more of the focus. What did the prophets declare? I think it is the 2nd coming and Jesus is seen and all will know that He is God incarnate and that the kingdom has come on power and authority in great judgment along with great mercy. What a glorious day and a horrible path that proceeds this unveiling.

Brain Mcnamee: Hi, John was going to write down the 7 thunders and was told not to for the information is sealed; so pretty much makes your idea speculation and seems a bit on the esoteric side,

JS: I do not deny this is my understand or rather mine and my husbands because we communicate on mostly everything is just that, understanding. Still I’ve studied Kabbalah for close to twenty years. He had to work and had ministry so he takes my understanding on certain matters, he knows my research and the time I put into understanding our Hebrew Past.

This is why I linked the rabbis information or the teaching in but I discussed in depth the seven thunders, their connection to the Tree of Life and Creation, quoting those sources already in depth the our study of Revelation 1. Thus, though “speculation” and “ a bit esoteric” in nature these studies are grounded in historical Hebrew traditions and teachings and the references are here.

This then comes to that most puzzling passage where John was told not to write or describe what the seven thunders said. As to what followed that is also true but would we understand that message hidden back 2000 years ago then when we didn’t two, twenty, two hundred or two thousand years ago? Exactly how was it sealed up? How will it be unsealed.

The answer is we need to know our past before we can look to the future or rather John’s past, because he was the one told not to “write” or “describe” what Creation or those Seven Thunders, revealed. All this is discussed in the next section once I finish this one which I will upload today.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Brain Mcnamee: Hi, John was going to write down the 7 thunders and was told not to for the information is sealed; so pretty much makes your idea speculation and seems a bit on the esoteric side,

JS: I do not deny this is my understand or rather mine and my husbands because we communicate on mostly everything is just that, understanding. Still I’ve studied Kabbalah for close to twenty years. He had to work and had ministry so he takes my understanding on certain matters, he knows my research and the time I put into understanding our Hebrew Past.

This is why I linked the rabbis information or the teaching in but I discussed in depth the seven thunders, their connection to the Tree of Life and Creation, quoting those sources already in depth the our study of Revelation 1. Thus, though “speculation” and “ a bit esoteric” in nature these studies are grounded in historical Hebrew traditions and teachings and the references are here.

This then comes to that most puzzling passage where John was told not to write or describe what the seven thunders said. As to what followed that is also true but would we understand that message hidden back 2000 years ago then when we didn’t two, twenty, two hundred or two thousand years ago? Exactly how was it sealed up? How will it be unsealed.

The answer is we need to know our past before we can look to the future or rather John’s past, because he was the one told not to “write” or “describe” what Creation or those Seven Thunders, revealed. All this is discussed in the next section once I finish this one which I will upload today.

When you find yourself dabbling in studying the Kabbalah you are taking a secondary source and interpreting the scriptures through that. This is a bit like gnosticism and a rabbit hole I do not want to go down. I have read a lot of non cannon stuff and it has some minor benefit but I like psalm 1 the man who is blessed is not taking other counsel but meditating on Gods law or word day and night.

 

[Joyous Song]

When you find yourself dabbling in studying the Kabbalah you are taking a secondary source and interpreting the scriptures through that. This is a bit like gnosticism and a rabbit hole I do not want to go down. I have read a lot of non cannon stuff and it has some minor benefit but I like psalm 1 the man who is blessed is not taking other counsel but meditating on Gods law or word day and night.

JS: I'm not Roman Catholic yet even so, Vatican II did tell Catholics to learn more about Jews and how they think. Jews do not dismiss Spiritualism which many call with disdain Gnosticism. Kabbalah taught by orthodox rabbis is based on Creation, all Creation, and originated in the Bible. Ezekiel 1st chapter can not be understood without it.

Have you read Revelation 1? Its somewhere in this message board further down. I uploaded the PDF months ago. This helps again some of those sources and why they are kosher, proper. I explain more in the next part.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

JS: I'm not Roman Catholic yet even so, Vatican II did tell Catholics to learn more about Jews and how they think. Jews do not dismiss Spiritualism which many call with disdain Gnosticism. Kabbalah taught by orthodox rabbis is based on Creation, all Creation, and originated in the Bible. Ezekiel 1st chapter can not be understood without it.

Have you read Revelation 1? Its somewhere in this message board further down. I uploaded the PDF months ago. This helps again some of those sources and why they are kosher, proper. I explain more in the next part.

Hi the Kabbalah has more in common with gnostic rather than Jewish thought; it is like getting your doctrine by joining the Masons who over time tell you Lucifer is the good guy who brought enlightenment or the Mormons who teach you can become God of your own planet. Withing Judaism kabbalah is more of a cult and the likes of Madonna and Demi Moore are dedicated followers. I have a pretty good idea of what many of the sects of Jews believe and am an active voice in a Torah vs Bible debate group and share from the scriptures the things that are coming and already taken place.


Its your time and energy to spend how you like and I see that without faith it is impossible to please God and faith comes by hearing, hearing the word of God. If somehow this is drawing you closer to the LORD good for you;

 

[BABerean2]

Still I’ve studied Kabbalah for close to twenty years. He had to work and had ministry so he takes my understanding on certain matters, he knows my research and the time I put into understanding our Hebrew Past.

The battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant has been going on since Acts chapter 15.

In Galatians 4:24-31 the Apostle Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, but are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24.

---------------------------------------

Php 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
Php 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Php 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Php 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Php 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Php 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

----------------------------------------

The New Covenant: Bob George

.

 

[Joyous Song]

Hi the Kabbalah has more in common with gnostic rather than Jewish thought; it is like getting your doctrine by joining the Masons who over time tell you Lucifer is the good guy who brought enlightenment or the Mormons who teach you can become God of your own planet. Withing Judaism kabbalah is more of a cult and the likes of Madonna and Demi Moore are dedicated followers. I have a pretty good idea of what many of the sects of Jews believe and am an active voice in a Torah vs Bible debate group and share from the scriptures the things that are coming and already taken place.


Its your time and energy to spend how you like and I see that without faith it is impossible to please God and faith comes by hearing, hearing the word of God. If somehow this is drawing you closer to the LORD good for you;

Brain Mcnamee: Hi the Kabbalah has more in common with Gnostic rather than Jewish thought;

JS: The Kabbalah taught in the West of the US is noting like what is taught by Hasidim. They carry the same name, but whereas one resembles a cult, the other is based in teaching that existed at and before the time Christ came. Indeed Jn.1.1-5 is a Kabbalistic rendering of Christ coming. In Jn.3.1-14 Christ was speaking in Kabbalistic language to Nicodemus:


“Do not marvel that I said to you, “You must be born anew. The wind (Ruach- disciplining Spirit) blows where its wills, and you hear the sound of it (in His Words and testimony) and you do not know from whence it comes (from Above) , or whether it goes (leading Christ to the Cross, 14); so it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”Jn.3.7-8



And when Nicodemus failed to understand and asked for clarification Christ said: “if I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things.” 12

That statement of the Ruach moving through Christ testimony is predicate on those things Nicodemus saw and heard that drew him here in the first place, those earthly things or evidence. Yet even seeing these things as something more (that why he was there) he did not grasp the heavenly component, because he did not believe. Rebirth is in such a heavenly realm (as is the Eucharist) and so was the source of everything He did.

So yes, this has helped me understand parts of the Word, and it gives me a better understanding of my Father, the Creator. I’ve gained insights into the Incarnation, the heavenly source of the Blessed Mothers humility and grace, and making Revelation easier to understand. Over all I call it a win. Unlike Nicodemus I’m drawn like moth to flame to heavenly things, trying to understand that which is impossible to fully understand. Indeed I think Cary Landry understood this a little when he wrote:


“Try to define Him, enthrone or enshrine Him; to catch is to loose Him and to loose is to win.”


There something to be gained in the process of reaching toward the impossible to truly understand. Maybe its because you still get something right among the among the many human errors or understandings...

 

[Joyous Song]

The battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant has been going on since Acts chapter 15.

In Galatians 4:24-31 the Apostle Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, but are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24.

---------------------------------------

Php 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
Php 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Php 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Php 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Php 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Php 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

----------------------------------------

The New Covenant: Bob George

.

JS: Paul ministry was to the Gentiles so for gentiles you are correct the Sinai covenant does not apply. Yet G-d is also the same yesterday, as to today, and tomorrow. And of that covenant given by Moses, many of those Laws are eternal upon Israel. The Messiah's coming did not change this. He fulfilled the Law but did not abrogate it which means when keeping our Hebrew traditions we need to keep His Cross and Sacrifice in sight. This has changed certain aspects of our keeping, but we still abide on all laws given to us to be eternal. Exactly why you posted this comment here though is confusing.

 

[BABerean2]

And of that covenant given by Moses, many of those Laws are eternal upon Israel. The Messiah's coming did not change this.

You are ignoring the Book of Hebrews in an effort to hang onto the Old Covenant.

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

--------------------------------

You are also ignoring what Paul said about using genealogies in our faith.

1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

.

 

[Joyous Song]

The battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant has been going on since Acts chapter 15.

In Galatians 4:24-31 the Apostle Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, but are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24.

---------------------------------------

Php 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
Php 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Php 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Php 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Php 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Php 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

----------------------------------------

The New Covenant: Bob George

.

BaBerean2,

Hello. I place my study here because it is a scriptural study of Revelations. As my Professor, Dr. Douglas Stuart , PRD, states: exegesis means a process or standard which mean: close, careful, patiently analytical study of a passage of scripture so as to understand its meaning. This includes doing research into the historical meaning to glean what might be relevant today.

This is what I did and this fits because John the disciple Jesus loved, was very Jewish even if you are not. His book was written by a Jew. His Gospel is has Jewish undertones for example he says the Passover had not come when Christ had his Passover. All the other Gospels say it was Passover.

This seems like a contradiction but knowing Jewish historical movements and about the tradition of Passover helps one know John was from the orthodox sect, which believed the Passover had to be eaten on the second evening of Passover as Passover moved into the Feast of Unleaven Bread.

The Hebrew Scriptures on Passover clearly say this must be eaten between the evening. Christ ate His just as Passover came, the first evening. He was busy sacrificing Himself for sin later that day. So His Passover was right and the other three Gospel writers were right.

John was also not wrong, likely he felt compelled to write that to alert us the came from a highly Orthodox background. Thus his Gospels and Revelations reflect this. Therefore whether I keep Jewish traditions or not is immaterial to this study and I would appreciate people discussing this study and not digressing into other topics. Feel free to start your own tread on this but if you have something to share on Revelation 10, you are welcome to share.