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Revalation 20:12-13 Resurrection of the dead at end times?

Discussion in 'Exposition & Bible Study' started by Kyle Tiedje, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. Kyle Tiedje

    Kyle Tiedje New Member

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    Revaltion 20:12-13 " And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done".

    If these people had already died, then wouldn't they be judged already after they die, to determine if they go to heaven or Hell? So why would God judge someone twice?
    Also can someone have a different result then the first time. Say a person goes to Hell but comes back to life as described in Revelation, could they enter Heaven?
     
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  2. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    The answer is much more simple than you think.
    It is appointed to all men that they die, and then the judgment (there is no appeal, no change possible from Judgement -- it is not a trial to determine guilt or innocence - that is unchangeable after death).
    They are not sent to hell, resurrected, then sent to heaven or hell again - that's a lot of misconstrued ideas not found in Scripture. (did you read it that way in Scripture? I don't remember it ever appearing that way in any part of the Bible) ...
     
  3. Kyle Tiedje

    Kyle Tiedje New Member

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    So what your saying is we don't get judged until after all of this occurs, also I came upon my thought by inferring. Aren't we still judged after we die, even if we die before the end? If not, are we sleeping after we die as Jesus said about Lazarus in John 11:11?

    It says in Revelation 20:13 "And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done".
    hasn't Hades been referred to as hell in a few parts of the Bible before? Luke 16:23 "And in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side".
    So does this mean that people came out from hell to be judged again? it does say later that those who were not in the book of life go to the lake of fire, which is the second death. Revelation 20:14-15 "Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire".
    So does this mean being judged twice then?????
     
  4. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    It might help to look up "judge" "judgement" in biblegateway dot com to find every occurence , mainly for now in the New Testament, but TORAH is excellent also - all of YHWH'S WORD IS PERFECT and TRUE.

    You will find that people may be judged all their life,
    but the final judgment looks like the one you are mostly referring to.
     
  5. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    It is an interesting topic this one. For me, my understanding of scripture is that death is compared to as a sleep in which all wait until the coming of Christ at which time the dead (those that sleep) will rise from their graves for the judgement. According to the scriptures we are not in heaven as many claim but await for the 2nd coming...

    To be dead is to sleep....

    John 11:11-13

    11, These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleeps; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12, Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13, Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14, Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

    Mark 5:35-39
    35, While he yet spake, there came from the ruler of the synagogue's house certain which said, Thy daughter is dead: why troublest thou the Master any further? 36, As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe. 37, And he suffered no man to follow him, save Peter, and James, and John the brother of James. 38, And he cometh to the house of the ruler of the synagogue, and seeth the tumult, and them that wept and wailed greatly. 39, And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleeps.

    Matthew 27:50-53
    50, Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51, And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52, And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose <These saints were in the grave sleeping not heaven as some claim>, 53, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

    Sleeping with the fathers means to be dead (theses are a few scriptures there are too many to list)....

    Act 13:36
    For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption

    Deuteronomy 31:16
    And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

    1 Kings 2:10
    So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.

    1 Kings 11:43
    And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father
    : and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.

    1 Kings 14:20
    And the days which Jeroboam reigned were two and twenty years: and he slept with his fathers, and Nadab his son reigned in his stead.

    1 Kings 14:31
    And Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David
    . And his mother's name was Naamah an Ammonitess. And Abijam his son reigned in his stead.

    1 Kings 15:8
    And Abijam slept with his fathers; and they buried him in the city of David
    : and Asa his son reigned in his stead.

    1 Kings 15:24
    And Asa slept with his fathers,
    and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father: and Jehoshaphat7 his son reigned in his stead.

    1 Kings 16:6
    So Baasha slept with his fathers,
    and was buried in Tirzah: and Elah his son reigned in his stead.

    1 Kings 16:28
    So Omri slept with his fathers,
    and was buried in Samaria: and Ahab his son reigned in his stead.

    1 Kings 22:40
    So Ahab slept with his fathers;
    and Ahaziah his son reigned in his stead.

    1 Kings 22:50
    And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father
    : and Jehoram his son reigned in his stead.

    2 Kings 8:24
    And Joram slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David
    : and Ahaziah his son reigned in his stead.

    (many more in the books of Kings, Chronicle and Samuel)

    Job 7:21
    And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be

    Job 14:12
    So man lies down, and rises not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

    Psalms 13:3
    Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

    Ecclesiastes 9:3-6
    3, This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead. 4, For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. 5, For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6, Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

    Psalms 115:17
    The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

    Jesus sending out the 12 giving them the Holy Spirit to raise the dead.......

    Matthew 10:5-8

    5, These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6, But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7, And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8, Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

    The dead that sleep are to be risen from the graves and wake from death for the judgement at the second coming. If the dead are already in heaven why would they be raised from the graves at the 2nd coming?

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

    13, But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14, For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15, For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    1 Corinthians 15:50-55 (Feast of first fruits Resurrection to eternal life - Jesus v 20)
    50, Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51, Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53, For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54, So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55, O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

    Philippians 3:10-11
    10, That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11, If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

    Daniel 12:2

    And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

    Hebrews 9:27
    And inasmuch as it is appointed for men once to "die" once and after this comes judgment

    Hope this helps may God bless you as you seek him through His Word!
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  6. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    THIS IS WONDERFUL ! (of course)....

    However, a few hundred years ago,
    it became expedient for some recluse to devise
    a different scenario for those who die - where they go -
    in order
    to procure more money for a certain cloistered group.....

    Like they said in Germany , if you say something often enough, and keep repeating it, they will believe it....

    so too this different scenario for the dead became accepted,
    and
    people stopped caring (if they ever did) that it wasn't true.... thus,
    unseen new "hotels"/"motels" became acceptable thinking for where the dead went...... and reading the Bible to find out the truth no longer was/is the accepted standard of what is truth.

    You have restored my hope in people that some still know and seek the TRUTH from the BIBLE instead of other sources !

    Thanks be to YHWH TODAY AND FOREVER for HIS REVELATION and GRACE IN JESUS !!
     
  7. Kyle Tiedje

    Kyle Tiedje New Member

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    If when we die we do go into a type of "sleep", then what about the times in the Bible that speak of after one dies they go to Heaven if they believe. Moses for example appearing on the Mountain During Jesus Transfiguration, Mathew 17:3 "And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him". How could Moses appear here with Jesus if he was asleep? also what about Jesus on the cross speaking to the thief, Luke 23:39-43 "One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”40But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. ”43Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
    Jesus is always right, so when he said that the thief would be with him together in paradise I think he meant it. So wouldn't we enter Heaven if we believe in God and obey him after we die?
     
  8. R.A.M.

    R.A.M. Member

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    I believe that an understandable part of our confusion comes from our perspective of time.
    Time is one of God's witty creations to allow us a subjective opportunity to choose and prove who we each are. However God and Heaven exist outside of time.

    One could postulate that all things past, present, and future, have already happened. Certainly in the eyes of God.

    If you want to go all nerdy with it, it isn't unreasonable to liken this plane of existence to the matrix. Its a subjective experience that God has Already Created And Judged.
     
  9. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    They are being judged the first time in those verses. They have to die to be judged.

    Heb 9:27 "Everyone must die once and after that comes judgement"
     
  10. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    There's a difference between jail and prison. Hades is a jail. The Lake of Fire is a prison. Unbelievers are kept in Hades prior to their judgement. But you make a relevant point in that their fate is sealed upon death.
     
  11. Shempster

    Shempster ImJustMe Supporter

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    There are many passages that make this confusing.
    The bible says the wicked are "already judged". So that's 1 judgement.
    If you think that the parable of Lazarus is referring to a factual place, then that is judgement #2. We know that AFTER the thousand year reign of Christ, the vast majority are raised and judged. That's 3.

    Notice that at the great white throne, they have to be tested or judged and if one's name is NOT in the lambs book of life, then they are cast into the lake of fire. That implies that some will NOT be cast into it. The way they taught me is that if you are at the LOF judgement-you're toast.

    This throws a big monkey wrench into the going theory of how it all works.
     
  12. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    "soul sleep" is a FALSE METAPHOR.

    " To be absent from the BODY/SOUL COMBO (death on earth) is to be present (spiritually) with the TRI-UNE GOD (eternal life in heavenly realms)"....a paraphrase of Paul, emphasizing differences in BODY / SPIRIT.

    JUDGMENTS:

    a. JUDGMENT of the NATIONS ...("ethnos=PEOPLES=societies = sheep/goats) ...Psalm 9:19 ; Matthew 25: 31-36 f

    b. JUDGMENT of the Believers' Works...1 Corinthians 3: 10-15 ; 2 Corinthians 5 : 6-10

    c. The GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT...sentencing of unbelievers AFTER the Second Death ...Revelation 20: 11-15 (NASB)

    d. BELIEVING SURVIVORS of the GREAT TRIBULATION...Revelation 7:9-17

    e. JUDGMENT of Fallen Spirits: Revelation 20:1-10

    f. JUDGMENT of the NATION Israel....the Major Prophets + Matthew 19:27-30 (NASB)

    Hebrews 9:27
    And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die (mortal Body/Soul combo) once and after this comes judgment, (of immortal Spirits)

    Rev. 20 (NASB) ...Sentencing of UNbelievers at the Great White Throne of God
    11 Then I saw a "great white throne" and Him (TRI-UNE GOD) who sat upon it,
    from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
    12 And I saw the (unsaved) dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne,
    and books (records) were opened; and another book was opened, which is the (Lamb's) "book of life";
    and the (unbelieving) dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it,
    and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they (unsaved dead) were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
    14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the "lake of fire". (spiritual realm of separation)
    This is the second death, the lake of fire.
    15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the (Believer's) (Lamb's) "book of life", he (Unbeliever) was thrown into the "lake of fire".
     
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