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Rev. 20:4, No Mention of Physical Earthly Reign

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by katiemygirl, Jul 13, 2015.

  1. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Indeed. That is the internal evidence issues of preterism. The wheels fall off the wagon with the external evidence. Revelation would have to been penned prior to 67 AD for it to be prophetic! When looking to scholarship for an earlier date of Revelation they quote discredited 19th century liberal theologians who they normally disagree with on soteriolgy and Christology.
     
  2. toLiJC

    toLiJC Senior Member

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    you know Daniel 7th chapter, that is the scripture, the "lion" with "eagle's wings" i.e. the typical model of a man with fervor to have abundant realization of its life on earth, that is why "it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it", the other like a "bear" with the "ribs in the mouth" i.e. the people who desire to be exceedingly rich, that is why "they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh", the third like a "leopard" having "four wings of a fowl" i.e. the typical model of an inordinately ambitious man who is skilled in influencing/conquering people, therefore "dominion was given to it", and the fourth with "great iron teeth" i.e. the typical model of spiritually powerful people who desire to reign over the world/humankind i.e. in a spiritual way, that's why it is written they are "strong exceedingly"...

    Blessings
     
  3. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Yes, it does get pretty wild, like a spin of the roulette wheel what strange believe will pop up next. On another thread, 200 pages and going...and not one person has changed their belief - yet all are different!
     
  4. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Wow! I doubt seriously if any commentary would agree with this. I think each beast is written as it is written to point back the the different nations represented in the great image of chapter 2. Some commentators would say the first beast is to represent Babylon, the second to represent Medopersia, the third to represent Alexander, and the 4th to represent Rome. However, I think it is deeper than that because there are verses such as 12:

    12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

    The last beast is slain, yet the lives of these other kings are spared, for a while. This certainly fits in with Rev. 19, when Jesus comes and casts the two beasts into the lake of fire. Therefore, I believe these four beasts are to represent for nations and 4 kings during the time of the 70th week. Just my opinion.
     
  5. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

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    The resurrection pertains to the dead in Christ, and their physical bodies.
    The "Rapture" is for those who are alive and remain, at His Coming.


    Both of these groups are gathered together in one place at one time, at His Coming.

    He returns once, a second time.

    so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

    This coming is after the tribulation.

    29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31



    JLB
     
  6. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's what I said already. Two events happening at almost the same time.





    I know.


    The main issue is you think two events are one event which I don't fully understand why you say that. Otherwise we seem to be on the same page.
     
  7. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

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    One event in that both the resurrection and Rapture occur at His Coming, not 7 years apart, or even 7 seconds apart.



    JLB
     
  8. toLiJC

    toLiJC Senior Member

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    and dave roberson teaches you to thing/reason and believe so?!, nothing personal by saying that, but how is it possible that there be a revelation for nations more than for the most fundamental iniquities?!, because heretofore there were ever nations committing iniquities, not just four, but hundreds of nations, especially now when the spiritual iniquity/lawlessness/wickedness is in full swing, Nebuchadnezzar was a great king of God for its time, though he was liable to be wrong in his assessment in respect of God and faith because he was not well-informed in this regard during the first years of his reign (moreover he was a king of babylon), nevertheless he was one of the kings proclaimed as honorary kings of israel by God

    Jeremiah 25:9 "Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant"

    this means a king to whom had been given a spiritual power to rule even over israel in addition to babylon and many surroundings, he was even something like a world king, that's why it has been written about him that he was "a king of kings"(Daniel 2:37), Nebuchadnezzar had even to make/issue a decree against the doing of spiritual iniquity/lawlessness/wickedness - that was one of his obligations as such a king (namely to control the spiritual activity on earth), but, as it was already mentioned above, he was liable to be wrong in his assessment in respect of God and faith, although he had the greatest wise men for its time, and because the spiritual iniquity is the cause and the source of all other iniquities and evils, therefore he sinned with regard to faith when he made/issued some decrees against the spiritual iniquity, because by taking counsel with his wise men he actually made a doctrine of faith in God, a creed which was in principle very perfect, but nevertheless there were many omissions therein, and the faith which he and his wise men made turned out to be erroneous and misleading so that the worshipers who had to obey the doctrine could sin before the true Lord God, for that reason Nebuchadnezzar was reproved several times by God and His prophets Belteshazzar(Daniel), Shadrach(Hananiah), Meshach(Mishael), and Abednego(Azariah), because the spiritual iniquity/lawlessness/wickedness brings all other kinds of iniquity/lawlessness/wickedness and there was a risk of great degradation/depravation(in biblical terms "death") to the detriment of all people, that is why those prophets talked about four most fundamental stages of the iniquity/lawlessness/wickedness, moreover, it may be very hidden at first remaining so secret for a long time, furthermore, even one spiritual lawbreaker/violator may be enough to be a cause of a very great deterioration/depravation("death"), as it is also written:

    Romans 5:12-14 "by one man(also: by the generation of the unrighteous spiritual workers/servants) sin(i.e. the devil and the system of (the) spiritual iniquity/lawlessness) entered into the world, and death(i.e. and the (spirit of) deterioration) by sin; and so death passed upon all men(i.e. and so the deterioration affected many humans), for that all have sinned(i.e. because many were seized by the system of (the) spiritual iniquity/lawlessness, some of them as its servants, others as its victims): For until the law sin was in the world(i.e. because the "darkness" was in the universe even until the entry of the human spirituality/religion): but sin is not imputed when there is no law(i.e. but there is no sin where there is no spiritual iniquity/lawlessness). Nevertheless death(i.e. the deterioration) reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression(i.e. even over people that had not committed spiritual iniquity/lawlessness)"

    to hope you will begin to understand the true truth from now on

    Blessings
     
  9. Jan001

    Jan001 Newbie Supporter

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    The bush that was burning was not annihilated and neither will the people in hell be annihilated.

    Exodus 3:1-3
    Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian, and he led the flock to the far side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. There the angel of the Lord appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. So Moses thought, “I will go over and see this strange sight—why the bush does not burn up.” niv

    Mark 9:47-48
    And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where
    “‘the worms that eat them do not die,
    and the fire is not quenched.’ niv
    The worms in hell do not die because they have an everlasting supply of condemned, immortal physical bodies to feed upon. The fire is never put out. It is an everlasting fire and it punishes the damned forever.

    We will agree to disagree. :)
     
  10. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Please back up to Daniel chapter 2. Do you find something spiritual behind the nations represented there too? As Daniel said, God showed old Neb' what was to come in the future. Following him, would come the Medo-persian empire, followed by the Grecian empire, followed by Rome. Why make this more complicated that what God made it?

    Of course I understand that by ONE SIN the entire planet was brought under a curse, and mankind sold into slavery of sin. But that is NOT what Daniel was writing about.

    Daniel 2:28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days.

    In fact, that dream took Neb' from his time to the end of all ages except the final 1000 years.

    34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

    35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.


    As it is also written, His glory shall cover the earth as the waters cover the sea.

    This dream was about KINGS and kingdoms:
    44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

    45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.


    Even this dream hinted of a time at the end when all these kings would be living AT THE SAME TIME. as in "in the days of these kings." Therefore this dream did indeed include time from Neb' on the the days ahead of us today, but included a hidden meaning that Babylon (Iraq), Persia (Iran) and the other nations will have have kings living at the same time in the days just ahead of us today.

    Daniel 7 also speaks of the days we are living in:
    9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

    10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
    11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

    12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
    13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

    14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

    Make no mistake, John cover these days Daniel wrote of:

    Rev. 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


    Then Daniel wrote of the Millennial Kingdom just as John did in Rev. 20.

    Daniel asked an angel about this vision and was told:
    17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

    18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.


    Again Daniel is writing about KINGS and their nations or empires that will be in existence as they are RIGHT NOW in the world.

    Daniel 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
    Rev. 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.


    Again Daniel and John are on the same page. This will be during the days of GT that Jesus spoke of.

    Daniel gives us a good ending:
    27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
    28 Hitherto is the end of the matter.

    How strange then that I cannot find ANYTHING in Daniel 2 or Daniel 7 about what you wrote. Why is that?


    By the way, this has very little to do with Dave Roberson. Only that He teaches people NOT to pull verses out of their context and that when one meditates on scripture God will reveal His intent.

    If you wish to read between the lines and ad lib stuff not written, that is up to you. As for me, I will just stick to exactly what is written. Of course all on this thread understand that Satan deceived Eve and she ate, and then Adam ate, and so the curse of sin came upon the entire world. However, that is not really what Daniel was writing about. He was writing about KINGS and empires that would come after Babylon, right up to the end.
     
  11. Jan001

    Jan001 Newbie Supporter

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    Do you believe that God owns all the cattle He created or do you believe that God is limited to owning the cattle on only a thousand hills?

    Psalm 50:9-11
    I have no need of a bull from your stall
    or of goats from your pens,
    10 for every animal of the forest is mine,
    and the cattle on a thousand hills.

    11 I know every bird in the mountains,
    and the insects in the fields are mine. niv​

    I believe God owns all the cattle everywhere in the whole world; past, present, and future. God owns all the hills also.

    "Thousand" in the Bible is symbolic for a "large number."
     
  12. Jan001

    Jan001 Newbie Supporter

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    "Beheaded" is symbolic for "martyrdom." John the Baptist was martyred by decapitation; he was beheaded. Stephen was martyred by stoning. James was martyred by sword.

    Refusing the mark of the beast simply means staying faithful to God and His commandments until death.

    The bodily resurrection of the beheaded/martyred saints does not occur until Jesus' second coming. All the rest of the dead, both good and evil, are resurrected with the power of Jesus' second coming.

    John 5:28-30
    Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. niv
    The resurrection of ALL the dead physical bodies of both good people and evil people does not happen until Jesus' second coming.
     
  13. Jan001

    Jan001 Newbie Supporter

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    The seventh trumpet already sounded 2000 years ago in about 70 A.D. and I only see two more references to a trumpet in Scripture which do not pertain to the destruction of the unbelieving Jews, their temple, and their city. There is a last trumpet mentioned and it will sound to announce Jesus' second coming so I am reasoning that it will be called the 8th trumpet. The number 8 in Scripture means a completion and/or a new beginning.

    The following two Scriptures pertain to Jesus' second coming/appearing:

    1 Corinthians 15:51-52
    Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. niv

    1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
    According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. niv
    The second coming of Jesus will be the final victory over death. No one shall ever physically die again. The second coming of Jesus will cause the physical bodies of all the dead people to resurrect and become immortal.
     
  14. Jan001

    Jan001 Newbie Supporter

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    Historical evidence shows that Jerusalem, the unbelieving Jews living there, and their temple were all destroyed by the Roman armies in 67-70 A.D. and so this Book/Scroll was written before 67-70 A.D.


    1. The temple had to be still standing for John to be able to go and measure it.


    Revelation 11:1-2
    I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. niv

    2. Daniel is told to seal his prophecy because it is meant for a time in the distant future.

    Daniel 8:26
    “The vision of the evenings and mornings that has been given you is true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future.” niv
    3. John is told to not seal up the words of the prophecy because what he writes will concern them in the near future.

    Revelation 22:10
    Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near. niv
    4. Jesus claims that all these prophecies will happen to this generation. A generation is 40 years. Jesus died in 30 A.D. and the temple was destroyed in 70 A.D.

    Matthew 23:36
    Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation. niv

    Matthew 24:34
    Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. niv

    Mark 8:12
    He sighed deeply and said, “Why does this generation ask for a sign? Truly I tell you, no sign will be given to it.” niv

    Mark 13:30
    Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. niv

    Luke 11:50
    Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all. niv

    Luke 21:32
    “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. niv
    5. Daniel prophesies the abomination of desolation for the distant future.

    Daniel 11:31
    “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation. niv

    Daniel 12:11
    “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. niv
    6. Jesus prophesies the abomination of desolation for this generation. The abomination of desolation is the Roman armies which will destroy the unbelieving Jews, their temple, and their city.

    Mark 13:14
    “When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. niv

    Matthew 24:15
    “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— niv

    Luke 21:20-21
    When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. niv
    All of this is ancient history. It happened back in 67-70 A.D.








     
  15. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Ok, the very first statement:

    "Historical evidence shows that Jerusalem, the unbelieving Jews living there, and their temple were all destroyed by the Roman armies in 67-70 A.D. and so this Book/Scroll was written before 67-70 A.D. "

    Just because Rome defeated the Jews in 67-70 AD does not mean Revelation was penned before this time. There's scant support in the external evidence. The remainder of your argument falls apart with a faulty assertion ("and so this Book/Scroll was written before 67-70 A.D.") from the beginning. You are letting your theory dictate the date of the book of Revelation while ignoring the opinions of the early theologians after 70 AD.

    So the entire premise begins faulty.

    Please explain your position on Revelation 19. Is it a literal event, symbolic, allegorical or all of the above?
     
  16. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    GET REAL!
    Genesis 20:16
    And unto Sarah he said, Behold, I have given thy brother a thousand pieces of silver: behold, he is to thee a covering of the eyes, unto all that are with thee, and with all other: thus she was reproved.
    Exodus 18:21
    Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:
    Exodus 20:6
    And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments
    Exodus 32:28
    And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.
    Nehemiah 3:13
    The valley gate repaired Hanun, and the inhabitants of Zanoah; they built it, and set up the doors thereof, the locks thereof, and the bars thereof, and a thousand cubits on the wall unto the dung gate.
    Psalm 91:7
    A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
    Psalm 105:8
    He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
    Isaiah 30:17
    One thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one; at the rebuke of five shall ye flee: till ye be left as a beacon upon the top of a mountain, and as an ensign on an hill.
    Isaiah 36:8
    Now therefore give pledges, I pray thee, to my master the king of Assyria, and I will give thee two thousand horses, if thou be able on thy part to set riders upon them.
    Isaiah 37:36
    Then the angel of the Lord went forth, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.
    Jeremiah 52:28
    This is the people whom Nebuchadrezzar carried away captive: in the seventh year three thousand Jews and three and twenty:
    Jeremiah 52:30
    In the three and twentieth year of Nebuchadrezzar Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard carried away captive of the Jews seven hundred forty and five persons: all the persons were four thousand and six hundred.
    Ezekiel 45:1
    Moreover, when ye shall divide by lot the land for inheritance, ye shall offer an oblation unto the Lord, an holy portion of the land: the length shall be the length of five and twenty thousand reeds, and the breadth shall be ten thousand. This shall be holy in all the borders thereof round about.
    Daniel 8:14
    And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.


    There are MANY more, showing us that a "thousand" in the bible really means 1000.
     
  17. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    "Beheaded" is symbolic for "martyrdom." John the Baptist was martyred by decapitation; he was beheaded. Stephen was martyred by stoning. James was martyred by sword.
    GET REAL! "
    Beheaded means losing your head! No one here believes your nonsense. WAKE UP! What is Islam's favorite way to murder someone?

    Refusing the mark of the beast simply means staying faithful to God and His commandments until death.

    Refusing the mark of the Beast means refusing it! Probably by telling them "NO! I don't want your mark."
    Did you not stop to think that perhaps a BUDDHIST might refuse the mark? Or an atheist? Or just someone born stubborn? Why do you have to restate what is obvious as written?

    a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice

    This is true, but we know that there will be a thousand years between the resurrection of the righteous and of the damned. Make no mistake though, BOTH groups will hear his voice, just a DIFFERENT hour.

     
  18. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Ok, so if all 7 trumpets have sounded, then show up in history when each event took place: for example, when was 1/3 of earth's population killed? When did 1/3 of the seas turn to blood? You really do need to get real. NONE of the trumpets have sounded, because before ANY trumpet can sound, the 7th seal must be opened. It has not. Before the 7th seal the 6th seal must be opened. It has not. WAKE UP! None of these have happened. Do you understand what the word FUTURE means?

    Your scriptures do indeed point to His second coming. He came once to die. He will come next FOR His bride, just before the 6th seal and PRETRIB and it will the His SECOND time on earth. When he comes as in Rev. 19, that will be His THIRD coming.
     
  19. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    1. The temple had to be still standing for John to be able to go and measure it.

    This temple is a FUTURE temple. I know this is a strange word for you, but you better get it into your vocabulary, for a new temple will soon be built. You seem to struggle with the concept of FUTURE. By the way, John is told to measure the temple just before the midpoint of a FUTURE 70th week of Daniel. We KNOW this is future, because none of the trumpets which will come before John is told to means have come. Anyone with a lick of common sense knows that there has NEVER been a time with 1/3 of earth's population is killed.

    4. Jesus claims that all these prophecies will happen to this generation.

    THIS WHICH? Of course the generation that sees all these things happening. Sorry, that generation never saw all the signs. OUR generation will.
     
  20. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    jan001,

    1. The battle of Armageddon is in the 7th vial (Revelation 16:16-17-19). Armageddon is in the region of Israel. Christ will come down on the Mount of Olives and he will smite them with the brightness of his coming (Zechariah 14:4-9 and 2 Thessalonians 2:8). Revelation 19:11-15 shows the Lord coming out of heaven with his saints and angels to the battle of Armageddon where the Beast and the false prophet are killed (Revelation 19:20).

    2. Revelation 20:7-9 is about encompasses Jerusalem but fire comes down from God out of Heaven.
    You can make this out like it is the same as Armageddon but this is when the 1000 years are up that Satan is loosed. When is Satan loosed out of the pit? He is not in there today because he still deceives the nations. He will still be working through the Antichrist and the nations in the tribulation for the time of the gentiles will not have ended until the battle of Armageddon.

    3. The devil in Revelation 20:10 is cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are. This is 1000 years after the beast and false prophet have been in there. This is because Satan is bound in the pit till the 1000 years should be fulfilled; and after that he must be loosed a little season.

    4. This proves that Satan is bound after the battle of Armageddon so he won't be able to deceive the nations for 1000 literal years. The little season he is loosed is to go out and deceive the nations which are in the 4 quarters of the earth and surround the city of Jerusalem and fire came down from God out of heaven and destroy them would not fit the little season before Armageddon for he won't be in the pit.

    5. If the second coming of Jesus is the final victory over death then when is he going to give the kingdom back to the father? You can't answer this except to build up your straw man of a non-literal 1000 years.
    The real millennial kingdom of the real 1000 years will have the devil in the pit so he won't be able to deceive the nations during this period. He still deceives today and you believe this is the millennial kingdom. So you are wrong on that point.

    6. Because the devil is put in the pit so he won't deceive the nations till 1000 years is over and this shows it to be literal after the battle of Armageddon in Revelation 19 and why there will be peace and the saints including the tribulation saints who are the only ones resurrected which is before the 7 vials on the beast kingdom (Revelation 15:1-2) will rule for a literal 1000 years. So you are wrong about the 1000 years as figurative.

    7. There has to be a 1000 years of Satan bound, no deceiving the nations, peace to set up the kingdom in order to have a last rebellion when he is loosed and for the Son to give the kingdom over to God the father and establish the KoG all in all. This last revolt and the throwing of Satan into the lake of fire and the Great White Throne Judgement for sinners will be when death will be done away and the New Heaven and the New Earth will be renovated and the KoG will be all in all; this earthly sphere in harmony with the universal KoG.

    8. There will be no peace until the kingdom comes which is the real millennial kingdom in the future of 1000 literal years. There has to be peace where satan is bound so he can't deceive the nations and this cannot be until after the tribulation. We have to be reigning physically on earth for the literal 1000 years in rulership position for this is what we are being trained for right now (2 Timothy 2:12). Israel has to be at the head of the nations when the law will come out of Zion (Isaiah 2:2-4). This physical rule will bring forth generations of earthy people who will have to obey the civil law or be punished and at the end those who have lived by the civil law who do not serve God in their hearts will be deceived and take part in the last revolt so death can be destroyed once and for all and the KoH earthly sphere can be given by the Son to the Father in order for it to be in complete and final harmony with the universal KoG so God can be all in all. The KoG all in all will be at this time of the renovated New Heaven and the New Earth. (1 Corinthians 15:28). Jerry kelso
     
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