Rev 11- 1st 3.5 years of Final 7 not a time of peace, after all?

[Douggg]

And secondly, you have the AoD set up before Day 1260, the day that the 42 months of Revelation 13 begin. But I think the AoD is the Image of the Beast from Revelation 13, and I think Rev 13 reads as though the Image is made and hence set up during those 42 months, which would mean that the AoD will not be set up before Day 1260.

The 42 month are not "exactly" 1260 days in the specific case of Revelation. Normally, the 42 months if converted to days would be 1260 days.

The 42 months begin on day 1263.5, the day the two witnesses leave this earth. The 42 months end on day 2520. So the 42 months actually represent 1256.5 days.

The AoD is the image of the beast, agreed. But when that image is made is before day 1185. The 42 months is time the beast rules without being impeded by the two witnesses.

The person is killed, then brought back to life, and the image made - all before day 1185.


unknown day - the Antichrist stops the daily sacrifice
unknown day - the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act
unknown day - the now revealed man of sin is killed
unknown day - the revealed man of sin brought back to life as the beast
unknown day - the image of the beast is made
day 1185 - the image of the beast placed in the temple
the great tribulation begins.
the Jews begin to flee
the two witnesses battle the beast
day 1260 - the two witnesses are killed
day 1263.5 - the two witnesses come back to life, ascend to heaven
1256.5 days left in the 7 years... which the beast rules unimpeded by the two witnesses.

The 1256.5 days is called 42 months.

 

[iamlamad]

I already told you the trumpets have not sounded because in Revelation 10:7, it says

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

It doesn't say in the days of the seventh seal. The sounding of the trumpets is future. The seventh seal opened that part of the book to see what was in it.

What is your argurment: that the "mystery" has not happened? How do you know? What is that mystery?

So what argument do you use to show that the 6th seal is opened? Has it happened? I don't follow you at all.

 

[iamlamad]

The 42 month are not "exactly" 1260 days in the specific case of Revelation. Normally, the 42 months if converted to days would be 1260 days.

The 42 months begin on day 1263.5, the day the two witnesses leave this earth. The 42 months end on day 2520. So the 42 months actually represent 1256.5 days.

The AoD is the image of the beast, agreed. But when that image is made is before day 1185. The 42 months is time the beast rules without being impeded by the two witnesses.

The person is killed, then brought back to life, and the image made - all before day 1185.


unknown day - the Antichrist stops the daily sacrifice
unknown day - the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act
unknown day - the now revealed man of sin is killed
unknown day - the revealed man of sin brought back to life as the beast
unknown day - the image of the beast is made
day 1185 - the image of the beast placed in the temple
the great tribulation begins.
the Jews begin to flee
the two witnesses battle the beast
day 1260 - the two witnesses are killed
day 1263.5 - the two witnesses come back to life, ascend to heaven
1256.5 days left in the 7 years... which the beast rules unimpeded by the two witnesses.

The 1256.5 days is called 42 months.

KNOWN DAY the Day the Antichrist stops the sacrifice: Day 1260.
1260 day - the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act
day 1185 - the image of the beast placed in the temple EXTREMELY doubtful.

Day 2520 minus 3 1/2 days When the two witnesses are killed. You have always been wrong on this point. You imagine they testify in the first half, but the truth is, they do not begin until John sees them - 3 1/2 days before the abomination that divides the week.

Day 2520 the two witnesses are raised as the 7th vial is poured out. And all the Old Testament saints rise, causing the world's worst earthquake.

2520 the week ends.
2521: Jesus has not shown up - because He does not come at the end of the week. The marriage and supper will begin on this day or shortly thereafter.
25?? to 25?? Marriage and supper in heaven.

2550? Possible day of Jesus return, 1290 days from the abomination.

2595? Possible day of the start of the Millennial Reign of Christ.

 

[iamlamad]

But that is not the way it happened. John was taken to heaven in chapter 4 to be shown what was in the book. And Jesus opened the seals of the book, and the future was revealed.

God did not reveal to John what was in the book before then.

John got to see in a vision the seals opened one after another, they the trumpets sounded, one after another, and then the vials poured out. It was ALL vision. And when the vision started, it was history to John: a view of the throne room 60 years in John's past. If you cannot understand that, how can you hope to be right in what is future?

From the start of the vision: the throne room - to the last vial, all was seen in a vision. So HOW can we tell what part of that vision is history to us in 2018 and how can we tell what is future?

It is very simple: we follow John's narrative and see what has already taken place on earth, and what has NOT taken place - therefore future. (Do you have another way?)

As I follow John's narrative, I stop at the 5th seal, KNOWING that number of martyrs is still being added to.
And I notice that the 6th seal events have NOT HAPPENED. Therefore I know that the church has been between the 5th and 6th seal all this time. Also as I move on in John's narrative, I see that NOTHING from that point on has happened on earth; NO trumpets and NO vials.

I think you make this far more difficult that God intended. It is a REVEALING, not a hiding.

 

[Douggg]

What is your argurment: that the "mystery" has not happened? How do you know? What is that mystery?

The mystery has not happened because the 7th angel has not sounded his trumpet yet. Because the sounding of the 7th trumpet takes place after the two witnesses ascend to heaven.

The mystery of God, as he had declared to his servants the prophets, is how the Kingdom of God will become the ruling Kingdom here on earth - over all kingdoms.

So what argument do you use to show that the 6th seal is opened? Has it happened? I don't follow you at all.

All of the seals have been opened so we know what is in the book.

The "events" of the 6th seal have not taken place yet, and will not take place until the near the end of the 70th week.

 

[Douggg]

KNOWN DAY the Day the Antichrist stops the sacrifice: Day 1260.
1260 day - the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act
day 1185 - the image of the beast placed in the temple EXTREMELY doubtful.

The Day is not known because the act shatters the illusion of peace and safety that Israel and the world will be thinking at that time, as it triggers the Day of the Lord.

The Day of Lord comes like a thief in night, 1Thessalonians5:2-3, and 2Thessalonians2:3-4 that day will not come until there is a falling away first, and the person commits the transgression of desolation act revealing himself as the man of sin.

Day 2520 minus 3 1/2 days When the two witnesses are killed. You have always been wrong on this point. You imagine they testify in the first half, but the truth is, they do not begin until John sees them - 3 1/2 days before the abomination that divides the week.

You show on your list the two witnesses killed 3 1/2 days before the end of the 70th week. Which in turn, in that scenario, would mean that the world is exchanging presents and celebrating while at the same time are in great tribulation and are preparing to make war on Jesus. Not reasonable, lamad.

Day 1: the 7th seal is opened, starting the 70th week.
Day 1256.5 The man of sin will arrive in Jerusalem with Gentile armies.
Day 1256.5 The two witnesses show up because the man of sin showed up.
Day 1260 - MIDPOINT - the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is God.
Day 1260 - the 7th trumpet sounds marking the midpoint. 11:15
Day 1260 - a few seconds later - those in Judea begin to flee - 12:6
Day 2516.5 the two witnesses are put to death.
Day 2520 The 7th vial is poured out marking the end of the 70th week.
Day 2550 of the week, 1290 from the midpoint Something happens.
Day 2595 of the week, day 1335 from the midpoint, Something happens.

2520 the week ends.
2521: Jesus has not shown up - because He does not come at the end of the week. The marriage and supper will begin on this day or shortly thereafter.
25?? to 25?? Marriage and supper in heaven.

The beast's rule ends at the end of the 42 months, when Jesus returns in great power and glory. Daniel 7, Daniel 2, Daniel 9, Daniel 12 all end with Jesus's return.

The 42 months, the 1260 days, the time, times, half time, the 1290 days, the 1335 days all fit within the 70th week.

 

[Douggg]

ohn got to see in a vision the seals opened one after another, they the trumpets sounded, one after another, and then the vials poured out. It was ALL vision. And when the vision started, it was history to John: a view of the throne room 60 years in John's past. If you cannot understand that, how can you hope to be right in what is future?

John in Revelation 4 was literally taken to heaven in what can best be described as an out of body experience.

It was not a dream like Daniel had in Daniel 7.

It was not a vision 60 years into John's past. It was right then at John's presence. You have come to a wrong conclusion that Jesus appearing to the elders and John in the throne room was him coming from earth at the time of his ascending to heaven after his resurrection.

Jesus's appearing is not explained. Only that he appeared in their midst. It is likely that he came forth out of the glory of God from the throne. Presenting himself in some visible way as a lamb that had been slain, a testimony of his crucifixion, dying for the sins of man, of us all, that we might be redeemed and have eternal life in Him, as sons of God.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

And I notice that the 6th seal events have NOT HAPPENED

I have no disagreement when you say 6th seal "events". My disagreement is when you say the 6th seal has not be opened yet.
.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I have no disagreement when you say 6th seal "events". My disagreement is when you say the 6th seal has not be opened yet.
.

I agree that all the seals have been opened.

Coincidentally, the 6th seal is similar to the event at the crucifixion of Jesus and the 6th hour darkness came upon the land along with an earthquake. Just thought this was interesting:

Rev 6:12
I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold! there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon[fn] became like blood.

Matthew 27:
45 From yet sixth hour darkness became upon all the Land till hour of the ninth. [Reve 3:10]
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
51 Then, behold, the veil of the Sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split,
54 So when the centurion and those with him, who were guarding Jesus, saw the earthquake and the things that had happened, they feared greatly, saying,
“Truly this was the Son of God!”

Revelation 1:18
and the living One! And I became dead and behold! I am living into the ages of the ages.
And I am having the Keys of the Hades and of the Death

Revelation 2:18
And to the messenger of the assembly in Thyatira, write!
Now this is saying the Son of GOD, the One having the eyes of Him as flame of fire, and the feet of Him as to burnished-brass



.

 

[Julian King]

The midpoint, of course - the same place the 1260 days begin, and the same place the 42 months begin.

So what event do you think the Bible is telling us will mark the end of the 1290 Days?

 

[Julian King]

So what event do you think the Bible is telling us will mark the end of the 1290 Days?

OK ignore that last question- I have seen a later posting.

But on what day do you think the 2300 Days of Daniel 8:13-14 will begin and what event do you think will mark their beginning?

 

[Julian King]

The answer is no. Because the sacrifices are stopped maybe a month or so before the abomination of desolation (a statue image of the beast) is placed in temple.

The 1290 days are marked from when the abomination of desolation is placed in the temple. It does not say what takes place 1290 days from that point in the text.

I believe what takes place is the events of the 6th seal, the cosmos parting and the world seeing Jesus before the throne of God.
____________________________________________________________________

You misunderstood me in regards to the stopping of the sacrifices. I did not say on day 1260. There is no way to tell what day on the timeline, the sacrifices are stopped.

Why?

Because they are stopped without warning by the person who will have been anointed the King of Israel - the Antichrist (Anti- legitimate King of Israel, Jesus) - about three years earlier.

In Daniel 8:25, the person magnifies himself in his heart - i.e. gets the big head. Thinks he has achieved God-hood. That's when he decides to make the claim, by stopping the daily sacrifice and going into the temple, sitting claiming to be God.

That action by the person will be totally unexpected, and there is no way of knowing exactly what day. What we can know is that it has to happen before when the abomination of desolation is placed in the temple - which we can determine a firm day for that of 2520-1335 = day 1185 on the timeline.

Here is a general narrative. The Antichrist after ruling as the King of Israel for about three years, without warning stops the daily sacrifice. Goes into the temple, sits, claims to the God. That act is call the transgression of desolation - not to be confused with the abomination of desolation that comes later.

The Jews will be mortified by his act and will impeach him from continuing as their King. That ends the person's time in the role of being the Antichrist. He is now the revealed man of sin.

The person is going to be killed for the act. How can we know?

Because in Ezekiel 28:1-10, under the code name of the prince of tyre, God spells it all out. About the person magnifying himself in heart, sitting in the seat of God, showing everyone his claim.

God is not pleased, and says he is no God and is just a man. So God brings strangers against him, to kill him.

Ezekiel 28:
7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.

8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.

Okay, so he is killed. Symbolically, in Revelation 13, he is the mortally wounded head on the beast. But comes back to life.

So how does the guy come back to life? It is in Isaiah 14, that he finds his soul in hell, taunted, before God decides not to let him rest there. And brings him back to life.

Isaiah 14:
19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Verse 20 indicates his body is never buried. Which indicates that he will be dead maybe a week or so, and his body in the viewing period. That's when he sits up in the open casket - and shocks the world.

At that point he has become the beast. And the false prophet has the image made of him and placed in the temple. As the abomination of desolation. Now we have finally got to day 1185.

That's where the 1290 days start counting from. So a lot of things will transpire between the stopping of the sacrifices to the day the abomination of desolation is placed in the temple

I highlighted in blue the stopping of the daily sacrifice, if you want to go back over the narrative.

So the daily sacrifice will be stopped, and a bunch of time passes, maybe a month or so, and then it finally gets around to image made of the person. I probably did a pretty good job of confusing you, but that was not my intention if I did.

I am intimately familiar with all the passages and have pursued the subject for 47 years, I am 70 years old.

Hi Douggg

The NRSV translation of Daniel 12:11 says "From the time the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that desolates is set up, there shall be 1290 days."

By saying "From the time" I think it's telling us that sacrifices ceasing will be the event that marks the start of the 1290 Days.

What does the translation that you're using say?

 

[Julian King]

KNOWN DAY the Day the Antichrist stops the sacrifice: Day 1260.
1260 day - the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act
day 1185 - the image of the beast placed in the temple EXTREMELY doubtful.

Day 2520 minus 3 1/2 days When the two witnesses are killed. You have always been wrong on this point. You imagine they testify in the first half, but the truth is, they do not begin until John sees them - 3 1/2 days before the abomination that divides the week.

Day 2520 the two witnesses are raised as the 7th vial is poured out. And all the Old Testament saints rise, causing the world's worst earthquake.

2520 the week ends.
2521: Jesus has not shown up - because He does not come at the end of the week. The marriage and supper will begin on this day or shortly thereafter.
25?? to 25?? Marriage and supper in heaven.

2550? Possible day of Jesus return, 1290 days from the abomination.

2595? Possible day of the start of the Millennial Reign of Christ.

Do you have the Beast's 42 months of authority beginning on Day 1260?

And if so, do you have them ending when the Beast is cast into the lake of fire on the day of the battle of Armageddon?

If so, then that would mean that the Battle of Armageddon will occur on Day 2520, which since Jesus is victorious in that battle would surely mean that He returns to earth either on or before Day 2520.

Also, it's possible that Zechariah 14 is speaking of the Battle of Armageddon, and if it is, then I think by telling us in verse 9 that "the Lord will become king of the earth on the day", it could be telling us that Jesus Millennial reign will begin when the Battle finishes, which since the chapter often speaks of the "day of the battle", and since verse 7 tells us that it will be "continuous day", it's possible that the battle will be over in a day, which would mean that Jesus' Millennial reign will also begin on Day 2520.

 

[Douggg]

Hi Douggg

The NRSV translation of Daniel 12:11 says "From the time the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that desolates is set up, there shall be 1290 days."

By saying "From the time" I think it's telling us that sacrifices ceasing will be the event that marks the start of the 1290 Days.

What does the translation that you're using say?

I use the KJV and it says,

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

They put a comma between the daily sacrifice shall be taken away......comma... and the abomination that maketh desolate set up....comma... there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

So there is a little difference.

But you are wise to ask what translation because I have experienced disagreements go on for weeks before it gets asks - what translation are you using. Which then it is discovered that the two parties are basing their positions on two different text for the same passage.

Merry Christmas, btw.

 

[Douggg]

Do you have the Beast's 42 months of authority beginning on Day 1260?

I would not necessarily call it "authority", but time of power to rule the world. Maybe its the same thing; I don't know.

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

However, the person becomes the beast before those 42 months begin. Because the image of the beast is placed in the temple on day 1185.

The difference being - that during the last 42 months, he will not be impeded by the two witnesses who will be no longer present upon the earth.

And if so, do you have them ending when the Beast is cast into the lake of fire on the day of the battle of Armageddon?

Yes.

If so, then that would mean that the Battle of Armageddon will occur on Day 2520, which since Jesus is victorious in that battle would surely mean that He returns to earth either on or before Day 2520.

I agree.

Also, it's possible that Zechariah 14 is speaking of the Battle of Armageddon, and if it is, then I think by telling us in verse 9 that "the Lord will become king of the earth on the day", it could be telling us that Jesus Millennial reign will begin when the Battle finishes, which since the chapter often speaks of the "day of the battle", and since verse 7 tells us that it will be "continuous day", it's possible that the battle will be over in a day, which would mean that Jesus' Millennial reign will also begin on Day 2520.

I basically agree, from verse Zechariah 14:3 and forward. Verse 2, however, could be between up to 45 days ahead of then and continue to the day 2520 when Jesus descends down to earth, and his feet stand on the mount of olives.

What it indicates to me is that the strategy of the beast, the false prophet, and Satan will be to hold them in Jerusalem as hostages - in hopes of preventing Jesus from executing judgement on them.

 

[Douggg]

OK ignore that last question- I have seen a later posting.

But on what day do you think the 2300 Days of Daniel 8:13-14 will begin and what event do you think will mark their beginning?

The 2300 day time frame begins on day 220 - which day 220, imo, is when the daily sacrifices resume (from being stopped when the second temple was destroyed in 70 AD).

Day 220 is about 7 months into the 7 years. The sacrifices go on for about three years.

So once the sacrifices start this time around, some undeterminable time passes till it gets to the middle part of the week (not exact middle day)... that the person, being the King of Israel (illegitimate, and huge mistake by Israel to think of him as their messiah) stops the daily sacrifice, right before going into the temple sitting, claiming to be God (the transgression of desolation). Which will not only get the person impeached, but also mortally wounded.

The 2300 day time frame ends on the Day Jesus returns, descends down to this earth, and his feet stands on the Mount of Olives.

Julian, if you go down near the bottom of my chart, you will see the spacing between the transgression of desolation and the abomination of desolation.

 

[tranquil]

How is that observable?

The starting of the 70th week, by confirming of the covenant, by the person making a big speech on the temple mount, would be observable.

imo, you have this entirely backward. The beast from the sea will confirm the covenant at the end of 7 years (see Deuteronomy 31:10) (May 14, 2025: the 77th anniversary of Jerusalem's desolations), & the beast from the earth (False Prophet) will confirm it on Sukkot/ Feast of Booths/ Tabernacles (Oct 8, 2025), but this will be simultaneous with the outpouring of God's wrath/ 7 bowls of wrath (which starts at the 'city'/ Jerusalem forcing the woman to live in a sukkah/ tent for Sukkot).

Psalm 68:21-

21But God will strike the heads of his enemies,
the hairy crown of him who walks in his guilty ways.
22The Lord said,
“I will bring them back from Bashan,
I will bring them back from the depths of the sea,
23that you may strike your feet in their blood,
that the tongues of your dogs may have their portion from the foe.”

24Your procession is seen, O God,
the procession of my God, my King, into the sanctuary—
25the singers in front, the musicians last,
between them virgins playing tambourines:
26“Bless God in the great congregation,
the Lord, O youe who are of Israel’s fountain!”
27There is Benjamin, the least of them, in the lead,
the princes of Judah in their throng,
the princes of Zebulun, the princes of Naphtali.
​

Deuteronomy 31:10

And Moses commanded them, “At the end of every seven years, at the set time in the year of release, at the Feast of Booths, 11when all Israel comes to appear before the Lord your God at the place that he will choose, you shall read this law before all Israel in their hearing. 12Assemble the people, men, women, and little ones, and the sojourner within your towns, that they may hear and learn to fear the Lord your God, and be careful to do all the words of this law, 13and that their children, who have not known it, may hear and learn to fear the Lord your God, as long as you live in the land that you are going over the Jordan to possess.”​

Deuteronomy 16:13

“You shall keep the Feast of Booths seven days, when you have gathered in the produce from your threshing floor and your winepress.
​

This Deuteronomy 16:13 verse is describing Revelation 14 (and the False Prophet is imitating it.)

Revelation 14

14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” 16 So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped.

17 Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over the fire, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, “Put in your sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe.” 19 So the angel swung his sickle across the earth and gathered the grape harvest of the earth and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horse's bridle, for 1,600 stadia.
​

On Sukkot/ Feast of Tabernacles is when the woman, the 'city' is burned by the 11th horn in Revelation 17 and she is forced into the wilderness: the Revelation 12 woman is pursued by the dragon at May 14, 2025 and then woman is forced into the wilderness when she is burned on Sukkot/ Feast of Tabernacles (she is thusly forced to live in a tent/ sukkah/ tabernacle in the wilderness) (this seems to be the meaning of this Feast day).

We know that the 7 bowls of wrath goes out on Sukkot/ Feast of Tabernacles also from Zechariah 14:18-19.

Roughly:
the 2nd woe:
the 2 witnesses 1260 days start on a 24 Kislev (Haggai 2:18) (signs indicate this is dusk Nov 27, 2021, then go forward 1260 days to May 10, 2025, then 3.5 days (Revelation 11:9) to May 14, 2025 which is when the 'holy place' is anointed at Daniel 9:24 - the 70 '7' translates as '77'th anniversary',

then the 7th Trumpet kicks Satan out of 'heaven' and starts the beast from the sea. (God is bringing up the enemies so as to be destroyed as per Psalm 68:22 above. - which means that the 'antichrist & false prophet' are imitating the 3.5 days of laying dead of the real 2 witnesses, on the same exact days.)

Matt 24

15“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

[Daniel tells us when the holy place is anointed: on the 70th week from the 70th anniversary & also at the 77th anniversary (May 14, 2025)​

16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days!

20Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

the 1st great tribulation in the 3rd Temple is Dec 21, 2020 and is cut short at Feb 4, 2021.
2nd woe/ 2 witnesses starts at a 24 Kislev (Zerubabbel & Joshua) (dusk Nov 27, 2021 through May 10, 2025), then dead for 3.5 days (May 10-14, 2025)
Start 7th Trumpet May 14, 2025, the abomination is in the holy place: Ezekiel's temple now
start 7 bowls of wrath at Sukkot (Oct 8, 2025), the woman / Revelation 17, 12 woman is burned on Sukkot & thus is living in a sukkah/ tent / tabernacle.
the 2nd great tribulation is the 7th Bowl of wrath on 24 Kislev's 'great earthquake' (Haggai 2:18-23​

22And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

the beast from the sea comes up at May 14, 2025 and is given 42 months to continue at Sukkot 5 months later. This is cut short because the abomination occurs here and are destroyed starting at the upcoming 'winter' 24 Kislev (dusk Dec 13, 2025/ 7th bowl of wrath

the beast is destroyed early (it should have had until Nov 27, 2028), but the woman is still in the wilderness for the allotted 1260 days.​

 

[Douggg]

imo, you have this entirely backward. The beast from the sea will confirm the covenant at the end of 7 years (see Deuteronomy 31:10) (May 14, 2025: the 77th anniversary of Jerusalem's desolations), & the beast from the earth (False Prophet) will confirm it on Sukkot/ Feast of Booths/ Tabernacles (Oct 8, 2025), but this will be simultaneous with the outpouring of God's wrath/ 7 bowls of wrath (which starts at the 'city'/ Jerusalem forcing the woman to live in a sukkah/ tent for Sukkot).

Psalm 68:21-

21But God will strike the heads of his enemies,
the hairy crown of him who walks in his guilty ways.
22The Lord said,
“I will bring them back from Bashan,
I will bring them back from the depths of the sea,
23that you may strike your feet in their blood,
that the tongues of your dogs may have their portion from the foe.”

24Your procession is seen, O God,
the procession of my God, my King, into the sanctuary—
25the singers in front, the musicians last,
between them virgins playing tambourines:
26“Bless God in the great congregation,
the Lord, O youe who are of Israel’s fountain!”
27There is Benjamin, the least of them, in the lead,
the princes of Judah in their throng,
the princes of Zebulun, the princes of Naphtali.
​

Deuteronomy 31:10

And Moses commanded them, “At the end of every seven years, at the set time in the year of release, at the Feast of Booths, 11when all Israel comes to appear before the Lord your God at the place that he will choose, you shall read this law before all Israel in their hearing. 12Assemble the people, men, women, and little ones, and the sojourner within your towns, that they may hear and learn to fear the Lord your God, and be careful to do all the words of this law, 13and that their children, who have not known it, may hear and learn to fear the Lord your God, as long as you live in the land that you are going over the Jordan to possess.”​

Deuteronomy 16:13

“You shall keep the Feast of Booths seven days, when you have gathered in the produce from your threshing floor and your winepress.
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This Deuteronomy 16:13 verse is describing Revelation 14 (and the False Prophet is imitating it.)

Revelation 14

14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” 16 So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped.

17 Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over the fire, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, “Put in your sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe.” 19 So the angel swung his sickle across the earth and gathered the grape harvest of the earth and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horse's bridle, for 1,600 stadia.
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On Sukkot/ Feast of Tabernacles is when the woman, the 'city' is burned by the 11th horn in Revelation 17 and she is forced into the wilderness: the Revelation 12 woman is pursued by the dragon at May 14, 2025 and then woman is forced into the wilderness when she is burned on Sukkot/ Feast of Tabernacles (she is thusly forced to live in a tent/ sukkah/ tabernacle in the wilderness) (this seems to be the meaning of this Feast day).

We know that the 7 bowls of wrath goes out on Sukkot/ Feast of Tabernacles also from Zechariah 14:18-19.

Roughly:
the 2nd woe:
the 2 witnesses 1260 days start on a 24 Kislev (Haggai 2:18) (signs indicate this is dusk Nov 27, 2021, then go forward 1260 days to May 10, 2025, then 3.5 days (Revelation 11:9) to May 14, 2025 which is when the 'holy place' is anointed at Daniel 9:24 - the 70 '7' translates as '77'th anniversary',

then the 7th Trumpet kicks Satan out of 'heaven' and starts the beast from the sea. (God is bringing up the enemies so as to be destroyed as per Psalm 68:22 above. - which means that the 'antichrist & false prophet' are imitating the 3.5 days of laying dead of the real 2 witnesses, on the same exact days.)

Matt 24

15“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

[Daniel tells us when the holy place is anointed: on the 70th week from the 70th anniversary & also at the 77th anniversary (May 14, 2025)​

16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days!

20Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

the 1st great tribulation in the 3rd Temple is Dec 21, 2020 and is cut short at Feb 4, 2021.
2nd woe/ 2 witnesses starts at a 24 Kislev (Zerubabbel & Joshua) (dusk Nov 27, 2021 through May 10, 2025), then dead for 3.5 days (May 10-14, 2025)
Start 7th Trumpet May 14, 2025, the abomination is in the holy place: Ezekiel's temple now
start 7 bowls of wrath at Sukkot (Oct 8, 2025), the woman / Revelation 17, 12 woman is burned on Sukkot & thus is living in a sukkah/ tent / tabernacle.
the 2nd great tribulation is the 7th Bowl of wrath on 24 Kislev's 'great earthquake' (Haggai 2:18-23​

22And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

the beast from the sea comes up at May 14, 2025 and is given 42 months to continue at Sukkot 5 months later. This is cut short because the abomination occurs here and are destroyed starting at the upcoming 'winter' 24 Kislev (dusk Dec 13, 2025/ 7th bowl of wrath

the beast is destroyed early (it should have had until Nov 27, 2028), but the woman is still in the wilderness for the allotted 1260 days.​

The last end to the 7 years, if done, was 2000 years ago. The Antichrist will essentially reset the cycle, confirming the covenant to begin the 7 year cycle again. Moses was the first to begin the 7 year cycle.

At least you have it right that the confirmation of the covenant is tied to Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

The person has to be in the role of being the leader of Israel when he confirms the covenant for 7 years. Differently, as the beast, the person will be functioning as the 8th Julio-Claudian king of the Roman Empire (of the end times).

 

[tranquil]

The last end to the 7 years, if done, was 2000 years ago. The Antichrist will essentially reset the cycle, confirming the covenant to begin the 7 year cycle again. Moses was the first to begin the 7 year cycle.

At least you have it right that the confirmation of the covenant is tied to Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

The person has to be in the role of being the leader of Israel when he confirms the covenant for 7 years. Differently, as the beast, the person will be functioning as the 8th Julio-Claudian king of the Roman Empire (of the end times).

The 'woman' (the city that rules the world) goes into the wilderness on the Sukkot after the beast from the sea has risen from the abyss.

A sukkah is a temporary shelter/ tent/ tabernacle, hence the woman goes into the wilderness on Sukkot.

That is why Revelation 14 says

6 Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. 7 And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”

8 Another angel, a second, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality.”

9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.​

Deuteronomy 16:13 is the same as Revelation 14.

The angels/ 'messengers' are warning people on Sukkot to not take the mark of the beast. This is when the harlot is burned by the 10 horns to reign with the beast. This is the false prophet imitating Jesus.

In Revelation 14:8, Babylon has fallen, then at the 7th bowl, because she has worshiped the beast, she receives the full cup of wrath at the 7th bowl (at the 24 Kislev following the prior Sukkot).

 

[Douggg]

The 'woman' (the city that rules the world) goes into the wilderness on the Sukkot after the beast from the sea has risen from the abyss.

Well, the Jews begin to flee into the wilderness when the image of the beast (the abomination of desolation) is placed in the temple.

Whether that will be on the remembrance day of Sukkot (a fall event) is not know yet. I am thinking sometime in the late spring/early summer, so that around 1335 days later, Jesus's return will coincide with the fall feasts.

Regardless, the fleeing will be to the literal wilderness, the mountains outside of Jerusalem.

 

[Julian King]

I use the KJV and it says,

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

They put a comma between the daily sacrifice shall be taken away......comma... and the abomination that maketh desolate set up....comma... there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

So there is a little difference.

But you are wise to ask what translation because I have experienced disagreements go on for weeks before it gets asks - what translation are you using. Which then it is discovered that the two parties are basing their positions on two different text for the same passage.

Merry Christmas, btw.

It looks to me like the KJV is saying that sacrifices ceasing is an event that will occur at some point during the 1290 days. So, what's the problem with you having them cease at the start of the 1290 days?