Resting

[xristos.anesti]

God helps.

I will give this forum a rest for the next seven days.

I find many posts here to be by large a Roman Catholic propaganda and utterly offensive.

I wish to ask those involved in seeping this Latin poison into this forum to re-consider what they are doing.

If the situation remains the same after that time - there will be a requirement for something to be done to stop and prevent those who see themselves as apostles of the Inquisition from doing their work.

If this forum is Apostolic forum it belongs to all Christians who deem themselves Apostolic and not to those Christians deemed Apostolic by the Rome.

Also, I did not understand this forum to be a place where all the non-Roman Catholics shall be daily exposed by a dose of brain washing, attacks, questioning and decrying of what they believe, humiliation etc. - by some, self appointed, inquisitors of the Roman Curia.

The means of discussion in this forum should be completed with respect and not arrogance, snobbery and superiority. I am a weak person who defends when attacked and then feel bad and even weaker - and truly, I have no need for that.




Many years.

 

[E.C.]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to xristos.anesti again.

Stupid rep police...

 

[WarriorAngel]

So...if it is Latin, it is poison?

Interesting.
Everytime it is Latin, it is offensive, invalid, arrogant, untrue, and ignorant.

Ok...your opinion. Nothing anyone can do.

But it tires me just the same to see these posts made about the CC.

If I came out suggesting half the ignorant remarks against the EO, it would be flaming...
But if it is the CC, that's another story altogether.

Then it is acceptable.

THIS OP is a flame against the RCC.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I find many posts here to be by large a Roman Catholic propaganda and utterly offensive.

I wish to ask those involved in seeping this Latin poison into this forum to re-consider what they are doing.

What exactly are you calling poison?

If you can show me something that is absolute thru Tradition and I am in err, I would look at it.

Being that I am probably the only or one of the few Catholics posting in here, I assume this is something I am posting....

WHICH BTW, I am making valid points that you are certainly allowed to counter with accuracy.

 

[Albion]

In my humble perspective, we all are going to have to speak with respect of the other Apostolic churches which we've already agreed belong here, including holding back on language or terminology that is not common to most of us at least.

This is a criticism of no one or no church in particular, just a sensing that there is a rising tide of irritation, deserved or not, that can be nipped in the bud if we now all take it upon ourselves to be considerate.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I am under the impression that when I took acception to 'innovation' in a title of a thread, that it offended my EO brethren.

I willing will submit an apology if that was the case.

I am no better or worse than anyone, and will try [my best] to overlook what I see as slurs on Rome. Although I am hoping it doesn't continue.

And so, with that, I am heartily sorry for my post.

 

[E.C.]

Bear in mind that xristos is, I believe a Bosnian Serb. For those who don't know what that means, a Bosnian Serb is a person of Bosnian decent who is Serbian Orthodox. If I am incorrect, please correct me.

Also bear in mind that a fair number of Orthodox here are actual Greeks and Serbs living in Greece or Serbia.

With that in mind, also remember that Croatia, when it was a puppet state of Nazi Germany, killed about 1.5 million Serbs; most, if not all, were Orthodox and were later declared Saints and martyrs.

With that in min, do not forget all the crap that the Roman Catholic Croatians have pulled with the Bosnians and the Serbs. Does that mean that the Serbs have not done anything horrid to the Croats or the Bosnians? No. I'm just saying keep all this in mind.

When you have kept all this in mind, also bear in mind the long history of bloodshed between Bosnian, Croatia and Serbia. Croatia is predominately Roman Catholic, Bosnia is predominately Muslim and Serbia is predominately Serbian Orthodox.

Than ask yourself this: why would an Orthodox in the Balkans area; especially one who lives in or comes from the former Yugoslavia, be especially offended when someone says that the Roman Catholic Church is all high and mighty and above all?

 

[Simon_Templar]

Bear in mind that xristos is, I believe a Bosnian Serb. For those who don't know what that means, a Bosnian Serb is a person of Bosnian decent who is Serbian Orthodox. If I am incorrect, please correct me.

Also bear in mind that a fair number of Orthodox here are actual Greeks and Serbs living in Greece or Serbia.

With that in mind, also remember that Croatia, when it was a puppet state of Nazi Germany, killed about 1.5 million Serbs; most, if not all, were Orthodox and were later declared Saints and martyrs.

With that in min, do not forget all the crap that the Roman Catholic Croatians have pulled with the Bosnians and the Serbs. Does that mean that the Serbs have not done anything horrid to the Croats or the Bosnians? No. I'm just saying keep all this in mind.

When you have kept all this in mind, also bear in mind the long history of bloodshed between Bosnian, Croatia and Serbia. Croatia is predominately Roman Catholic, Bosnia is predominately Muslim and Serbia is predominately Serbian Orthodox.

Than ask yourself this: why would an Orthodox in the Balkans area; especially one who lives in or comes from the former Yugoslavia, be especially offended when someone says that the Roman Catholic Church is all high and mighty and above all?

this information may make some views understandable, but understood and justified are two different things. The history of that region is rife with bloodshed on all sides. Everytime one group has been on top of the heap, so to speak, they have slaughtered and oppressed the others.

It only makes such tragedies and attrocities worse when they become ingrained as articles of faith in the religion of each side, and it taints the faith of those who allow such hatreds to become part of their church.

 

[E.C.]

I'm just saying think before you post.

Other than that, I do understand what you are saying.

However, this part:

It only makes such tragedies and attrocities worse when they become ingrained as articles of faith in the religion of each side, and it taints the faith of those who allow such hatreds to become part of their church.

I think that it is only the fanatics and nationalists on all sides that make the issue a matter of faith.

The persecution of the Serbian Orthodox during WW2 was a matter of faith. I believe that only one or two of the whole synod of bishops in the Serbian Orthodox Church survived the war. It may have been all. I'll have to check the book I saw it in.

 

[a_ntv]

However, this part:
I think that it is only the fanatics and nationalists on all sides that make the issue a matter of faith.

Ok I agree.
As sign of peace I'm going to cancel a post of mine I've posted now in an other thread of this forum. too polemic

 

[E.C.]

Ok I agree.
As sign of peace I'm going to cancel a post of mine I've posted now in an other thread of this forum. too polemic

I saw that.

Not sure if the entire post was necessary... well, maybe it was.

Thank you.

 

[Simon_Templar]

I'm just saying think before you post.

Other than that, I do understand what you are saying.

However, this part:
I think that it is only the fanatics and nationalists on all sides that make the issue a matter of faith.

The persecution of the Serbian Orthodox during WW2 was a matter of faith. I believe that only one or two of the whole synod of bishops in the Serbian Orthodox Church survived the war. It may have been all. I'll have to check the book I saw it in.

Its human nature to combine our patriotic sensibilities with our religious ones. In many ways the draw on the same emotions and same loyalties within us. God and country as it were.

While I think ethnic and national loyalties are good in many ways, its often dangerous to mix them with our loyalty to Church and Christ. Yet it is a natural temptation for us to do so. The same kind of thing was and is a driving force in the troubles in Ireland etc.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Bear in mind that xristos is, I believe a Bosnian Serb. For those who don't know what that means, a Bosnian Serb is a person of Bosnian decent who is Serbian Orthodox. If I am incorrect, please correct me.

Also bear in mind that a fair number of Orthodox here are actual Greeks and Serbs living in Greece or Serbia.

With that in mind, also remember that Croatia, when it was a puppet state of Nazi Germany, killed about 1.5 million Serbs; most, if not all, were Orthodox and were later declared Saints and martyrs.

With that in min, do not forget all the crap that the Roman Catholic Croatians have pulled with the Bosnians and the Serbs. Does that mean that the Serbs have not done anything horrid to the Croats or the Bosnians? No. I'm just saying keep all this in mind.

When you have kept all this in mind, also bear in mind the long history of bloodshed between Bosnian, Croatia and Serbia. Croatia is predominately Roman Catholic, Bosnia is predominately Muslim and Serbia is predominately Serbian Orthodox.

Than ask yourself this: why would an Orthodox in the Balkans area; especially one who lives in or comes from the former Yugoslavia, be especially offended when someone says that the Roman Catholic Church is all high and mighty and above all?

I ask the same considerations.

I know of some of what happened in Bosnia [former Yugoslavia]

And I know that Catholics were also getting their share of hatred and harm.

I want to add something, I feel almost incredulous about.

During the Croatian war, the town of Medjugorje was being 'bombed' on and the bombs dropped without so much as a boo.
They had numerous bomb droppings, but not one exploded.

It has been impressed upon many who saw this, that Our Lady was protecting that area.

Interesting, I thought, even if the Church doesn't recognise that apparition as of yet.

this information may make some views understandable, but understood and justified are two different things. The history of that region is rife with bloodshed on all sides. Everytime one group has been on top of the heap, so to speak, they have slaughtered and oppressed the others.

It only makes such tragedies and attrocities worse when they become ingrained as articles of faith in the religion of each side, and it taints the faith of those who allow such hatreds to become part of their church.

WE should let go of prejudices...
I also have a difficult time, knowing my ancestry came from Ireland and that there is a such a sharp and cutting division there. [My grandfather came from there]

For many years it was ingrained in me that the English Protestants were hateful.

But I had to rid myself of anything that excuses war against brethrens of Christ.

 

[Sothron]

In my humble perspective, we all are going to have to speak with respect of the other Apostolic churches which we've already agreed belong here, including holding back on language or terminology that is not common to most of us at least.

This is a criticism of no one or no church in particular, just a sensing that there is a rising tide of irritation, deserved or not, that can be nipped in the bud if we now all take it upon ourselves to be considerate.

I agree 100% and rep given after I finish this post. I asked about the Anglican/Methodist because I was honestly curious and after reading the posts in that thread I have a better understanding of where they are coming from.

It is hard to say this without one person taking offense but it is not meant to be offensive only honest: it really does give the appearance we are being browbeat with the Pope's authority claims on the board at this point.

 

[xristos.anesti]

During the Croatian war, the town of Medjugorje was being 'bombed' on and the bombs dropped without so much as a boo.
They had numerous bomb droppings, but not one exploded.

It has been impressed upon many who saw this, that Our Lady was protecting that area.

Actually this is false - the official Bosnian Croat Government stats declare that: "in the midst of Bosnian Muslim bombardment during the war years over 200.000 pilgrims visited Medjugorje - this is why the pressure was placed upon the Armija BiH (Bosnian Muslim Army) especially in December 1993 to stop bombardment (mortar attacks) of the area so that some visiting pilgrims can be evacuated..."

If the bombs weren't exploding who would care?!


Also: The Roman Catholic Church stated about this occurrence(s) the following (cf. this site i.e.):

REVIEW
CONCLUSION

Based on what has been said, the Catholic Church has proclaimed,
1. The supernaturality is not proven (meaning there is nothing heavenly about Medjugorje.)
2. The non-supernaturality is proven (meaning what appears to be supernatural is the result of human manipulation for the purpose of fame and wealth.)
3. As previously said, official or church pilgrimages are not allowed, nor are 'private' visits allowed that have the intent of proving that the so-called 'apparitions' and alleged 'messages' are authentic!
4. The fruits of the alleged 'apparitions' of Medjugorje have been those of great confusion and division, and not only in the local Church. Such IS NOT, AND CANNOT BE of God!
5. The alleged "seers" have been proven to lie over and over during the investigations of the commissions appointed by the Catholic Church. Such IS NOT, AND CANNOT BE of God!
6. As mentioned above, one of the "seers" claimed that Our Lady said that all faiths are equal. Such IS NOT, AND CANNOT BE of God! SUCH A DOCTRINE IS NOT CATHOLIC!
Regarding the necessity of the Catholic Church for salvation, the Catechism of the Catholic Chuch states,

846 "How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it." [C.C.C. # 846] ​

The above is sufficient to prove that the faithful would achieve greater spiritual growth by attending authentic approved Shrines such as those at Lourdes or Fatima.





Anyway, this is beside the point.

I just want to rain on your parade.

This post has nothing to do with what I am and where I come from -

I needed some time to calm down and realise whether there is future in me being in this forum.

As far as Bosnia and former Yugoslavia are concerned - well, that is something that you all know better than me - I mean, you have the CNN and BBC - and everyone knows - they do not lie.

On a serious note - the whole lot of us there and across the world should be beaten every day for the next thousand years for being so bloody stupid and actually have that war.

Many years.

 

[WarriorAngel]

6. As mentioned above, one of the "seers" claimed that Our Lady said that all faiths are equal. Such IS NOT, AND CANNOT BE of God! SUCH A DOCTRINE IS NOT CATHOLIC!
Regarding the necessity of the Catholic Church for salvation, the Catechism of the Catholic Chuch states,

This is false propoganda...she never said that.

One thing for sure is, I have read her messages, and not one thing has ever been claimed as this claims she has said.

So unless you actually know the messages, you too will fall for the false propoganda everywhere online.

The Church hasnt made a move on Medjugorje to claim them authentic.

So, until they do, it is not considered.

IT was never condemned...and that is also another false report going around.

The Bishop doesnt see the need to call them authentic as yet, although JPll heard about the bombs that didnt go off when dropped, as a sign.

I can assure you that you would never hear about that in the news from those doing the bombings.

WE are asked to use caution until they are either condemned or approved.

 

[xristos.anesti]

Unfortunately the information provided came from a Roman Catholic Website dealing in the matter.

Unlike yours - their purpose and validity can be inspected.

I am sorry, I tend to believe subject matter experts in this particular case.

Medjugorje seems to be a lie.

Thank you.

 

[Albion]

I'm not sure why this deserves to be a fight, but that link is NOT to any kind of official Roman Catholic source.

It is a website run by Catholic laypersons, and the material presented deals almost exclusively with one bishop's view on the matter.

 

[Albion]

I agree 100% and rep given after I finish this post. I asked about the Anglican/Methodist because I was honestly curious and after reading the posts in that thread I have a better understanding of where they are coming from.

It is hard to say this without one person taking offense but it is not meant to be offensive only honest: it really does give the appearance we are being browbeat with the Pope's authority claims on the board at this point.

Thank you. I hesitate to say too much on this matter for seeming to be favoring one side or another, but I agree with you that we've had plenty about the Pope and should now turn to other matters, hopefully ones in which we all have more or less an equal stake. And whatever the topic, let's all avoid saying that what our church believes is the truth to the exclusion of what anyone else believes. It may BE the truth, and that would mean that opposing views would not be, but that isn't why we're here or have a forum that includes all of us.

 

[xristos.anesti]

I'm not sure why this deserves to be a fight, but that link is NOT to any kind of official Roman Catholic source.

It is a website run by Catholic laypersons, and the material presented deals almost exclusively with one bishop's view on the matter.

One bishop's view - wait, isn't that what RCC is all about?!