• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Research Shows that Government Spending Undermines Economic Performance

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by Rion, Feb 13, 2012.

  1. Rion

    Rion Annuit Cœptis Supporter

    +6,196
    United States
    Lutheran
    Single
    European Central Bank Research Shows that Government Spending Undermines Economic Performance « International Liberty

    Overwhelming Evidence for Less Government Spending « International Liberty
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2012
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. fenix144

    fenix144 Je me souviens.

    488
    +9
    Atheist
    Single
    CA-Bloc
    That is your mantra right? Unbridled government spending with no taxes would be more accurate though.
     
  3. conamer

    conamer Guest

    +0
    Now Greece has lost it's finacial freedom. Debt= slavery Hmmm, I think the bible says something like that, oh well.
     
  4. Rion

    Rion Annuit Cœptis Supporter

    +6,196
    United States
    Lutheran
    Single
    ...no, I want less spending.
     
  5. stamperben

    stamperben It's an old family tradition

    +4,050
    Humanist
    Private
    Research may lead to conclusions, but history shows results.

    If that confuses you look up the Great Depression in America and study what happened.
     
  6. Rion

    Rion Annuit Cœptis Supporter

    +6,196
    United States
    Lutheran
    Single
    Massive government slowed the recovery until we entered WWII. :thumbsup:
     
  7. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Polymath

    +987
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Others

    There's nothing like war to improve the economy.

    Oh wait, war means destruction and death....There's nothing quite like moving from unemployed to living in a foxhole.
     
  8. conamer

    conamer Guest

    +0
    At no time during the Great Depression did unemployment drop below 14%.:doh:
     
  9. Rion

    Rion Annuit Cœptis Supporter

    +6,196
    United States
    Lutheran
    Single
    While I think war is terrible, the sad truth is that it does improve the economy, provided you aren't the poor side being bombed.

    Also while I am not "pro-war" I am not "anti-war" either. I am not a pacifist.
     
  10. DaisyDay

    DaisyDay blind squirrel

    +9,443
    United States
    Unitarian
    Married
    US-Others
    Link to study referred to by the Cato guy: http://www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/scpwps/ecbwp1399.pdf

    I would like to know how the study's authors would rank the US compared with the EU and Scandinavian countries.

    Where does the US stand with regards to civil liberties and fiscal rules compared to the countries studied?
     
  11. kermit

    kermit Legend

    +777
    Christian
    Married
    US-Democrat
    Every year of the Great Depression showed improvment except when spending dropped. What really brought us out the Great Depression wasn't WWII, per se, it was the massive increase in spending to ramp up for it.

    The reality is that we never paid down the WWII debt, but it became mostly irrelavant. Deficit spending in bad/war times spending isn't the problem. The problem is deficit spending in good/peace times. For that let's not forget, that it was Reagan and the Dem congress in the 80's that started us on the path of high deficit spending in good/peace times even after the Cold War ended.
     
  12. stamperben

    stamperben It's an old family tradition

    +4,050
    Humanist
    Private
    And because of government intervention through its spending that 14% rate was down from 25%.
     
  13. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Polymath

    +987
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Others
    I think it's just a misconception that people have that war improves the economy. I don't think war improves the economy, though people do have jobs and GDP numbers might even rise.

    People may be employed, but it does matter what they are being employed to do. They aren't being employed to meet consumer taste's and preferences. They aren't doing things that improve quality of life. They are being employed to destroy assets. War destroys wealth. War is a bad thing. Sometimes it has to be done, but war is destructive by nature.

    Saying war is helpful to an economy is the old "broken window" fallacy which says that a broken window is helpful since it employs a window repair man to come and fix it. This is a fallacy because it fails to account for the counterfactual - for how those resources would have been used had the window not been broken. The same is true of war. Saying that war is good for an economy fails to account for how those resources (some of which literally died in the war) would have been used otherwise.

    Millions of people dying and suffering, destruction of assets, homes, businesses and wealth isn't good for an economy.
     
  14. kermit

    kermit Legend

    +777
    Christian
    Married
    US-Democrat
    If that were true, then why was there no economic stimulous associated with the first Gulf War?

    The answer is simple, that war was mostly fought out of our surplus that was built up during the Cold War. Of course, that explains the boom in the 80's which then in turn undermines the tax cut as a boom argument.
     
  15. conamer

    conamer Guest

    +0
    How convinient that would be if it were true.

    unemployment rate:
    1930-8.9
    1931-15.9
    1932-23.6
    1933-24.9
    1934-21.7
    1935-20.1
    1936-17.0
    1937-14.3
    1938-19.0
    1939-17.2
    1940-14.6
    1941-9.9
    1942-4.7

    Trends are all big government spenders can point to. The trend was spead the suffering by taking money out of the economy and bloating government. FDR prolonged the great Depression by 7 years.
     
  16. kermit

    kermit Legend

    +777
    Christian
    Married
    US-Democrat
    Care to guess what happened in '38 that is associated with the jump from 14.3% to 19%?

    How you come up with FRD prolonged the Depression by 7 years is a mystery. However, according to your own data and the known cut to spending that caused a 5% jump in unemployement it's demonstratable that the cut in spending added at least 3 years as it took until '40 to get back to '37 levels.
     
  17. blueapplepaste

    blueapplepaste the purpose of life is a life of purpose

    +751
    Catholic
    Single
    US-Others
    What exactly do you think funded WWII? Massive government spending.
     
  18. variant

    variant Happy Cat

    +4,084
    Agnostic
    Single
    Considering that america spent a lot in the war it undermines your origional argument a bit.

    Spending as a percent of GDP:

    [​IMG]

    Or dosen't military spending count as government spending?

    FDR would have had to spend more than triple what he was to do the same ammount of spending as WWII
     
Loading...