Reply to comment orthodox against technology

[mikeforjesus]

Teach that if one encounters orthodoxy knowing what it is we can not be sure those Christians can be saved.
St Theophan the Recluse says we should not worry about heterodox God is leading them to salvation in His own way but I assumed he presumes they never heard of orthodoxy or if they did they would join it. But I suppose no one can know for sure orthodoxy is the true path so are they all excused ? But the church also judges those who leave the church from not understanding church doctrine. I don’t think those born orthodox should have to remain orthodox but if the church does not judge Protestants who don’t know I should not question the church and I should assume I need to be in the church. But then one would be judging those who leave the church for other Christian and it seems it may not be right but I don’t understand why one would be influenced by church position if he doesn’t believe it

 

[ArmyMatt]

we can't be sure other Christians are saved because we don't know if we ourselves are saved. all I can do is work on my own salvation, and not judge the state of others which is only truly known to God.

 

[mikeforjesus]

But anyway the current position of church leaders is not the position one can see is valid from the church fathers but if I wanted I could follow the church if that is what they will teach I would but I do think it is still judgemental and not right. It is not right to judge anyone who follows a different denomination I think to hinder them from following Jesus and confusing them

 

[mikeforjesus]

we can't be sure other Christians are saved because we don't know if we ourselves are saved. all I can do is work on my own salvation, and not judge the state of others which is only truly known to God.

Ok that is true but I can not accept to hold that we do not know others have enough to be saved and not less chance to be saved but to have less reward or to be saved after death

 

[ArmyMatt]

Ok that is true but I can not accept to hold that we do not know others have enough to be saved and not less chance to be saved but to have less reward or to be saved after death

no offense, Orthodoxy does not care what you can or can't accept.

 

[ArmyMatt]

But anyway the current position of church leaders is not the position one can see is valid from the church fathers but if I wanted I could follow the church if that is what they will teach I would but I do think it is still judgemental and not right. It is not right to judge anyone who follows a different denomination I think to hinder them from following Jesus and confusing them

that's not true

 

[mikeforjesus]

no offense, Orthodoxy does not care what you can or can't accept.

I know but I don’t really believe it is correct and have trust in God I don’t have to follow and I will not accept what is unjust to me I have a conscience and I believe there is a reward a crown given by others whom you helped for those who follow their conscience

 

[mikeforjesus]

that's not true

I believe it is true what I said about church now if it teaches differently it is because they ignore the church fathers. But you agree with the church fathers atleast that people who leave orthodoxy can not be saved and I believe it is not right to judge others but you have to disagree if you are going to follow the church

 

[ArmyMatt]

I know but I don’t really believe it is correct and have trust in God I don’t have to follow and I will not accept what is unjust to me I have a conscience and I believe there is a reward a crown given by others whom you helped for those who follow their conscience

then why are you posting here?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I believe it is true what I said about church now if it teaches differently it is because they ignore the church fathers. But you agree with the church fathers atleast that people who leave orthodoxy can not be saved and I believe it is not right to judge others but you have to disagree if you are going to follow the church

you really don't know what you're talking about. this is getting old.

 

[mikeforjesus]

then why are you posting here?

Because I initially made a comment on Ancient Way subforum but Jude1:3 said you guys will comment that such comments are not acceptable in that subforum and recommended this one to make my comment. Though I should have said I am not wanting to make a debate

 

[ArmyMatt]

Because I initially made a comment on Ancient Way subforum but Jude1:3 said you guys will comment that such comments are not acceptable in that subforum and recommended this one to make my comment. Though I should have said I am not wanting to make a debate

you don't want a debate, so you post in our debate subforum...?

 

[prodromos]

Though I should have said I am not wanting to make a debate

You make an incredibly bold (and false) claim which I quote below, yet you claim you don't want debate?

Orthodox are taught to be harsh and reject the true Christ

You have a tenuous grasp on reality

 

[mikeforjesus]

you really don't know what you're talking about. this is getting old.

Well I don’t see how you can disagree with what I said about ignoring church fathers if I am wrong I have not been able to see so even if you are fed up and I do not see otherwise you accept other Christians from another I won’t change my mind but you have shown already you said it is up to God and we can not know if other Christians are saved. The church fathers do not agree with that and have been clear even if one believed but was out of the church and lived most righteous life if he is outside the church he can not be saved. There is no explanation for any basis given that one who knows of the church can be saved just saying it is up to God but then on what basis ?

 

[mikeforjesus]

You make an incredibly bold (and false) claim which I quote below, yet you claim you don't want debate?

You have a tenuous grasp on reality

I can make a statement and not wish to debate unless ofcourse you want to and I am open to do so if people want to. I didn’t intend for it to be a debate but just to say it

 

[ArmyMatt]

Well I don’t see how you can disagree with what I said about ignoring church fathers if I am wrong I have not been able to see so even if you are fed up and I do not see otherwise you accept other Christians from another I won’t change my mind but you have shown already you said it is up to God and we can not know if other Christians are saved. The church fathers do not agree with that and have been clear even if one believed but was out of the church and lived most righteous life if he is outside the church he can not be saved. There is no explanation for any basis given that one who knows of the church can be saved just saying it is up to God but then on what basis ?

well, I have read Church Fathers who say otherwise. the services say otherwise. the Bible says otherwise. the lives of the Fathers say otherwise.

please stop pretending to lecture us. this isn't the place for that. it's annoying.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I didn’t intend for it to be a debate but just to say it

a debate forum doesn't exist just so you can say stuff.

 

[mikeforjesus]

well, I have read Church Fathers who say otherwise. the services say otherwise. the Bible says otherwise. the lives of the Fathers say otherwise.

please stop pretending to lecture us. this isn't the place for that. it's annoying.

I am not pretending to lecture but I won’t argue anymore on this subforum

 

[mikeforjesus]

a debate forum doesn't exist just so you can say stuff.

ok lesson learned I thought it was the right forum

 

[ArmyMatt]

I am not pretending to lecture but I won’t argue anymore on this subforum

thanks