Replacement Theology "anti-semitic"?

[sonshine234]

I do not know

 

[SolomonVII]

True If Israel was blown sky high that would change a lot, but then God has preserved and dealt with is people for two milenia now so I don’t think that he will fail them now.

There is something very harsh about using the annihilation of a nation, Israel no less, as a counter-factual, and noting that it would not change a thing in terms of your faith.
Such indifference comes off as very callous, whatever one's theology ultimately is.
Since Paul (well since Jesus really) we have struggled to find an answer to what the relationship between Jews and followers of Christ really is, and how Jews fit into God's plan. I don't think that even Paul figured he had the final word on the subject.
If after 2000 years of keeping the Jews alive as a distinct race, culture, religion, etc, God's ultimate plan was to annihilate them so that Jordan might have some prime Mediterranean beach front, that would seem to me at least to be a very strange and incomprehensible theology indeed.

 

[psalms 91]

Replacement theology is flawed at best and totally wrong. God never replaced Israel and never will.

 

[Zeek]

There is something very harsh about using the annihilation of a nation, Israel no less, as a counter-factual, and noting that it would not change a thing in terms of your faith.
Such indifference comes off as very callous, whatever one's theology ultimately is.
Since Paul (well since Jesus really) we have struggled to find an answer to what the relationship between Jews and followers of Christ really is, and how Jews fit into God's plan. I don't think that even Paul figured he had the final word on the subject.
If after 2000 years of keeping the Jews alive as a distinct race, culture, religion, etc, God's ultimate plan was to annihilate them so that Jordan might have some prime Mediterranean beach front, that would seem to me at least to be a very strange and incomprehensible theology indeed.

Ahem Sol...I think it was hyperbole within a hypothetic analogy

 

[Zeek]

The Land is that owned by the Church. The country of Israel persecutes the Church. 'Nuff said.

The Church is the Kingdom. Israel could be blown sky high and nothing would change.

Lol, I totally agree...nuff said...from you...totally out in left field.

 

[Zeek]

ok, no more conversation.
Your idea isn't what I choose to go by, I prefer the NT.

I don't think you have a position except to repeat Christian mantras...we are supposed to understand the Bible as a whole otherwise we won't understand the whole counsel of G-d...don't fall into the Marcion heresy.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I don't think you have a position except to repeat Christian mantras...we are supposed to understand the Bible as a whole otherwise we won't understand the whole counsel of G-d...don't fall into the Marcion heresy.

And you don't think a lot of us Christians here don't? Wow!









.

 

[Lovely Lane]

I don't think you have a position except to repeat Christian mantras...we are supposed to understand the Bible as a whole otherwise we won't understand the whole counsel of G-d...don't fall into the Marcion heresy.

thanks for the advice, I only need the NT to get to heaven neighbor, becoming a self-proclaimed Bible scholar I am not, I'm not in the business. More of a Tertullian rather than a Marcion.

 

[Lovely Lane]

I don't think you have a position except to repeat Christian mantras...

hey, wait a minute. What is that suppose to mean?
I thought Christian mantras was a good thing? We got our Bible verses, Lord's Prayer, Unceasing Prayers, Jesus Prayer, Morning prayers, Evening Prayers, Meal prayers, etc. Some can chant real good too.

Are Messianic mantras different from Christians?

 

[Habakk]

And you don't think a lot of us Christians here don't? Wow!

As far as I understand Zeek did not say that. He is referring to Lovely Lane’s attitude of I’m right your wrong without giving any reasoning behind it other than I believe the NT. I found the same thing myself. All of us here believe the NT. All we are really saying is if there is no debate let’s just agree to disagree for the sake of good will.

This is an emotive and passionate subject for a lot of people especially those in Europe. I don’t think the US has experienced anti Semitism to the same degree nor has a history of such atrocities.

It is something that is bewildering when such theological arguments are voiced seemingly without Christian respect or compassion. And when they are just repeated for no real reason?

Sometimes it is best to keep some beliefs to oneself in the interests of Christian harmony, however when such threads do appear I feel a duty to defend what I see as God’s people and God’s word. Not just because that’s my theology but because I care passionately about the issues.

 

[Lovely Lane]

As far as I understand Zeek did not say that. He is referring to Lovely Lane’s attitude of I’m right your wrong without giving any reasoning behind it other than I believe the NT. I found the same thing myself. All of us here believe the NT. All we are really saying is if there is no debate let’s just agree to disagree for the sake of good will.

This is an emotive and passionate subject for a lot of people especially those in Europe. I don’t think the US has experienced anti Semitism to the same degree nor has a history of such atrocities.

It is something that is bewildering when such theological arguments are voiced seemingly without Christian respect or compassion. And when they are just repeated for no real reason?

Sometimes it is best to keep some beliefs to oneself in the interests of Christian harmony, however when such threads do appear I feel a duty to defend what I see as God’s people and God’s word. Not just because that’s my theology but because I care passionately about the issues.

LL only expresses what he believes, never said I was right or another was not. But have said that I disagree...many times.
I seem to be called many anti's for speaking of what I believe. Here it is antisemitic in another thread it was anticatholic. As long as I'm not called antichrist, I'm on the road to glory.

 

[Lovely Lane]

I don’t think the US has experienced anti Semitism to the same degree nor has a history of such atrocities.

my foot, just ask the ADL. They scream out all the time about those being antisemitic.

 

[Zeek]

And you don't think a lot of us Christians here don't? Wow!

What Habakk said....

Lamby...If you catch my gist, you will see I merely hoped for something more substantial than what Lovely offered...(not you or any other Believer here...just Lovely), because several of us have taken the time to try and substantiate our view and in return we are offered a diet of...' well I just believe what I believe'... sort of thing which is a meagre and rather frustrating exchange.

 

[Zeek]

thanks for the advice, I only need the NT to get to heaven neighbor, becoming a self-proclaimed Bible scholar I am not, I'm not in the business. More of a Tertullian rather than a Marcion.

What a strange attitude!

If you only have part of the picture, then I suppose it is only natural for you to understand part of the story...you think you have your ticket to eternity, but are happy not to understand the Fathers heart towards Israel...(even though you appear to have an opinion that you try to express).

You don't have to be a bible scholar (self-proclaimed or otherwise) to know the ways of G-d...the disciples don't come across as geniuses, but they had open, willing and obedient hearts...they fought the good fight, they ran the race.

 

[Zeek]

hey, wait a minute. What is that suppose to mean?
I thought Christian mantras was a good thing? We got our Bible verses, Lord's Prayer, Unceasing Prayers, Jesus Prayer, Morning prayers, Evening Prayers, Meal prayers, etc. Some can chant real good too.

Are Messianic mantras different from Christians?

Messianic simply means Christian.

Mantras can be hollow and without substance...just repetition.
IMO you were giving me/us Christian frothy bubbly stuff that didn't satisfy.

 

[Lovely Lane]

Messianic simply means Christian.

Mantras can be hollow and without substance...just repetition.
IMO you were giving me/us Christian frothy bubbly stuff that didn't satisfy.

"Can Be"?
yep, "Christian frothy bubbly stuff".

Messianic doesn't simply mean Christian does it? If so, why not just say Christian, you seem to write it enough.

 

[Lovely Lane]

What a strange attitude!

If you only have part of the picture, then I suppose it is only natural for you to understand part of the story...you think you have your ticket to eternity, but are happy not to understand the Fathers heart towards Israel...(even though you appear to have an opinion that you try to express).

You don't have to be a bible scholar (self-proclaimed or otherwise) to know the ways of G-d...the disciples don't come across as geniuses, but they had open, willing and obedient hearts...they fought the good fight, they ran the race.

What a strange reply.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Zeek

What a strange attitude!

If you only have part of the picture, then I suppose it is only natural for you to understand part of the story...you think you have your ticket to eternity, but are happy not to understand the Fathers heart towards Israel...(even though you appear to have an opinion that you try to express).

You don't have to be a bible scholar (self-proclaimed or otherwise) to know the ways of G-d...the disciples don't come across as geniuses, but they had open, willing and obedient hearts...they fought the good fight, they ran the race.
​

What a strange reply.

I have seen stranger ones on CF and GT

1Pe 4:12
Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you,
as though some strange thing happened to you;

the doors people are strange - YouTube

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Zeek

Messianic simply means Christian.

Mantras can be hollow and without substance...just repetition.
IMO you were giving me/us Christian frothy bubbly stuff that didn't satisfy.
​

"Can Be"?
yep, "Christian frothy bubbly stuff".

Messianic doesn't simply mean Christian does it?
If so, why not just say Christian, you seem to write it enough.

Messianicism implies practicing/mixing the NT/NC of Grace with the OC/OT Torah of Mosaic Judaism given to Moses, me thinks. I could be wrong tho.....................


http://www.christianforums.com/t7652097/#post60373149
Messianic Judaism


1. This is a Torah Observant forum where those in Judaism as well as the Gentiles who are coming to Messiah, and those who already know Him, may come and grow and learn more about a Torah observant life in Messiah. We advocate Torah Observance as part of our walk with Messiah Yeshua, since He is our example and was Torah Observant, along with the disciples. This can be an area of great division with much misunderstanding, so we must realize that we are all at different points in our walk and that the Ruach Elohim (the Spirit of God) will lead people to The Truth. We realize that not all Messianics have equal levels of Torah observance. The disputes concerning this matter will not be tolerated.


*We believe it is the calling of all believers to share the "Good News" of the coming Kingdom and to live a life transformed by the Spirit of God following our Lord's example of love toward God, and all mankind.





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[PaladinValer]

There are many injustices in the world, Christians persecute Christians. That however does not change God’s holy word or his promises to the LAND.

Not true in orthodox, historic Christianity. The Jews are not His People and there is no land that is more important to him as any other real estate.

I think a lot of Christians would actually like it if Israel was blown sky high along with a lot of other peoples. Other Christians continue to curse Israel and the Jewish people hiding behind a flimsy doctrine with no substance, and foolishly flaunt their blood bought salvation as some sort of elitists.

What a Straw Man.

Since when did God ever choose a nation of elitists, we are called to be humble. The land of Israel is however here now as God declared it would be.

God didn't ever declare it to be. The Holy Writ and historic, orthodox Christian theology is against such a belief.