Repetitious Prayer

[Brighid]

Hello,
My apologies if this issue as been addressed, I'm new and haven't quite got the forums all figured out.
Can someone please explain to me how the "Jesus Prayer" is not practicing the "vain repetition" warned against in Matthew 6:7?

Also, this prayer feels to me like the practice of "still mind" meditation, which I am a bit paranoid about because of my past experience in occultism and New age practices. I was under the impression that this sort of "drilling the mind" is forbidden as a Christian.

I appreciate any help. Thank you!

 

[Brighid]

Hello,
My apologies if this issue as been addressed, I'm new and haven't quite got the forums all figured out.
Can someone please explain to me how the "Jesus Prayer" is not practicing the "vain repetition" warned against in Matthew 6:7?

Also, this prayer feels to me like the practice of "still mind" meditation, which I am a bit paranoid about because of my past experience in occultism and New age practices. I was under the impression that this sort of "***stilling the mind***" is forbidden as a Christian.

I appreciate any help. Thank you!

 

[Ken Rank]

Hello,
My apologies if this issue as been addressed, I'm new and haven't quite got the forums all figured out.
Can someone please explain to me how the "Jesus Prayer" is not practicing the "vain repetition" warned against in Matthew 6:7?

Also, this prayer feels to me like the practice of "still mind" meditation, which I am a bit paranoid about because of my past experience in occultism and New age practices. I was under the impression that this sort of "drilling the mind" is forbidden as a Christian.

I appreciate any help. Thank you!

The "vain repetition" was dealing dealing with a pagan form of worship prevalent in that day. I understand your concern... I actually held a similar view for a while regarding Jewish daily prayer. The same prayer in the morning... before bed?? But then I realized something... they were beginning the day with the Lord on the minds, hearts, and lips and ending it the same way. That isn't vain if it is keeping one close to God. So, once I understood that, I began to dig into the culture of that day and there was a chanted prayer thing involving certain pagan cultures back then.

 

[HTacianas]

Hello,
My apologies if this issue as been addressed, I'm new and haven't quite got the forums all figured out.
Can someone please explain to me how the "Jesus Prayer" is not practicing the "vain repetition" warned against in Matthew 6:7?

Also, this prayer feels to me like the practice of "still mind" meditation, which I am a bit paranoid about because of my past experience in occultism and New age practices. I was under the impression that this sort of "drilling the mind" is forbidden as a Christian.

I appreciate any help. Thank you!

We are told to "pray without ceasing", see 1 Thessalonians 5:16, but also to abstain from "vain repetitions" as you pointed out. But we are also told to "pray in this manner", see Matthew 6:9.

It is not the repetition that we are to avoid, but to avoid vain repetitions. If we "pray in this manner" and in that manner "pray without ceasing" it leads to repetition, but not vain repetition.

As far as "still mind" meditation, it has always been a part of Christianity, see Psalms 46:10: "Be still and know that I am God..."

If it helps, google "hesychasm". The monks of Christianity practice a form of "still mind meditation". It's an ascetic practice and to some extent it is helpful to a layman, especially the Jesus prayer.

 

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

Can someone please explain to me how the "Jesus Prayer" is not practicing the "vain repetition" warned against in Matthew 6:7?

The concern about repetition in prayer is common; this is good, because it shows that people are paying attention to Jesus' words & how to apply them. I would just like to offer another piece of Scripture, some food for thought when we're discussing the possibility of repetition being unbiblical. Try to see how the use of repetition enhances this passage, and how vain repetition could be different:

Psalm 136, RSV
O give thanks to the Lord, for he is good,
for his steadfast love endures for ever.
2 O give thanks to the God of gods,
for his steadfast love endures for ever.
3 O give thanks to the Lord of lords,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;


4 to him who alone does great wonders,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
5 to him who by understanding made the heavens,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
6 to him who spread out the earth upon the waters,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
7 to him who made the great lights,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
8 the sun to rule over the day,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
9 the moon and stars to rule over the night,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;

10 to him who smote the first-born of Egypt,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
11 and brought Israel out from among them,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
12 with a strong hand and an outstretched arm,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
13 to him who divided the Red Sea in sunder,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
14 and made Israel pass through the midst of it,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
15 but overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red Sea,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
16 to him who led his people through the wilderness,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
17 to him who smote great kings,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
18 and slew famous kings,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
19 Sihon, king of the Amorites,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
20 and Og, king of Bashan,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
21 and gave their land as a heritage,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
22 a heritage to Israel his servant,
for his steadfast love endures for ever.

23 It is he who remembered us in our low estate,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
24 and rescued us from our foes,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
25 he who gives food to all flesh,
for his steadfast love endures for ever.

26 O give thanks to the God of heaven,
for his steadfast love endures for ever."
​

And as long as it's the subtlely beautiful Jesus prayer in question, bringing up a prayer from Jesus Himself seems good:

"So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words." --Matthew 26:44
​

May God continue to bless us all!

 

[ArmyMatt]

the difference is the Jesus Prayer isn't vain repetition. there is a lot of repeated prayers in heaven in Revelation.

 

[prodromos]

Hello,
My apologies if this issue as been addressed, I'm new and haven't quite got the forums all figured out.
Can someone please explain to me how the "Jesus Prayer" is not practicing the "vain repetition" warned against in Matthew 6:7?

Also, this prayer feels to me like the practice of "still mind" meditation, which I am a bit paranoid about because of my past experience in occultism and New age practices. I was under the impression that this sort of "drilling the mind" is forbidden as a Christian.

I appreciate any help. Thank you!

It is important that you read the whole verse you quoted;

And in praying use not vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.​

See if you can imagine what sort of prayer fits that description. The Jesus prayer says very little, but it packs everything into a few words. It acknowledges Jesus as Lord and saviour, that He is truly God's Son, admits our own fallenness, and asks for mercy. By simply asking for mercy, we also acknowledge that God already knows our needs better than we do. There is nothing vain about the Jesus pray. It is deep and it is humble.

 

[Brighid]

The "vain repetition" was dealing dealing with a pagan form of worship prevalent in that day. I understand your concern... I actually held a similar view for a while regarding Jewish daily prayer. The same prayer in the morning... before bed?? But then I realized something... they were beginning the day with the Lord on the minds, hearts, and lips and ending it the same way. That isn't vain if it is keeping one close to God. So, once I understood that, I began to dig into the culture of that day and there was a chanted prayer thing involving certain pagan cultures back then.

Thanks, that's a good point!

 

[Deade]

Hello again Brighid,
a standard pre-formatted prayer is often useful to help us remember what to include. I think Jesus was just warning us against chanting instead of prayer, with the vain repetitions. Our prayers can and should take many forms. To pray without ceasing simply means to talk with the Lord often during your day. Like when you read a headline, ask what He thinks of it. I address God formally and informally throughout the day. I think it healthy for our sake to formally address Him, at least once a day, to remember to respect Him properly.

 

[prodromos]

A gentle reminder to visitors that this question was posted in the Eastern Orthodox subforum.

 

[Brighid]

We are told to "pray without ceasing", see 1 Thessalonians 5:16, but also to abstain from "vain repetitions" as you pointed out. But we are also told to "pray in this manner", see Matthew 6:9.

It is not the repetition that we are to avoid, but to avoid vain repetitions. If we "pray in this manner" and in that manner "pray without ceasing" it leads to repetition, but not vain repetition.

As far as "still mind" meditation, it has always been a part of Christianity, see Psalms 46:10: "Be still and know that I am God..."

If it helps, google "hesychasm". The monks of Christianity practice a form of "still mind meditation". It's an ascetic practice and to some extent it is helpful to a layman, especially the Jesus prayer.

I'll look it up, thank you!

 

[Brighid]

Hello again Brighid,
a standard pre-formatted prayer is often useful to help us remember what to include. I think Jesus was just warning us against chanting instead of prayer, with the vain repetitions. Our prayers can and should take many forms. To pray without ceasing simply means to talk with the Lord often during your day. Like when you read a headline, ask what He thinks of it. I address God formally and informally throughout the day. I think it healthy for our sake to formally address Him, at least once a day, to remember to respect Him properly.

Thank you, this has been my practice also, to speak to God throughout the day, in addition to the Lord's prayer, usually twice. The Jesus prayer does feel like chanting to me, if I say it more than a couple of times together.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The key difference is in the first two words... Our Father...

Repetition is not Relationship.

 

[Lady Donna Marie]

Anything we do can be done in vain if a person's heart is not in the right place. If a prayer is done with good intentions, then it is not done in vain.

 

[Halbhh]

The concern about repetition in prayer is common; this is good, because it shows that people are paying attention to Jesus' words & how to apply them. I would just like to offer another piece of Scripture, some food for thought when we're discussing the possibility of repetition being unbiblical. Try to see how the use of repetition enhances this passage, and how vain repetition could be different:

Psalm 136, RSV
O give thanks to the Lord, for he is good,
for his steadfast love endures for ever.
2 O give thanks to the God of gods,
for his steadfast love endures for ever.
3 O give thanks to the Lord of lords,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;


4 to him who alone does great wonders,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
5 to him who by understanding made the heavens,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
6 to him who spread out the earth upon the waters,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
7 to him who made the great lights,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
8 the sun to rule over the day,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
9 the moon and stars to rule over the night,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;

10 to him who smote the first-born of Egypt,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
11 and brought Israel out from among them,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
12 with a strong hand and an outstretched arm,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
13 to him who divided the Red Sea in sunder,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
14 and made Israel pass through the midst of it,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
15 but overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red Sea,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
16 to him who led his people through the wilderness,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
17 to him who smote great kings,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
18 and slew famous kings,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
19 Sihon, king of the Amorites,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
20 and Og, king of Bashan,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
21 and gave their land as a heritage,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
22 a heritage to Israel his servant,
for his steadfast love endures for ever.

23 It is he who remembered us in our low estate,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
24 and rescued us from our foes,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
25 he who gives food to all flesh,
for his steadfast love endures for ever.

26 O give thanks to the God of heaven,
for his steadfast love endures for ever."
​

And as long as it's the subtlely beautiful Jesus prayer in question, bringing up a prayer from Jesus Himself seems good:

"So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words." --Matthew 26:44
​

May God continue to bless us all!

. A favorite. As soon as I saw it was a psalm i knew which one.

 

[Brighid]

The concern about repetition in prayer is common; this is good, because it shows that people are paying attention to Jesus' words & how to apply them. I would just like to offer another piece of Scripture, some food for thought when we're discussing the possibility of repetition being unbiblical. Try to see how the use of repetition enhances this passage, and how vain repetition could be different:

Psalm 136, RSV
O give thanks to the Lord, for he is good,
for his steadfast love endures for ever.
2 O give thanks to the God of gods,
for his steadfast love endures for ever.
3 O give thanks to the Lord of lords,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;


4 to him who alone does great wonders,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
5 to him who by understanding made the heavens,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
6 to him who spread out the earth upon the waters,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
7 to him who made the great lights,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
8 the sun to rule over the day,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
9 the moon and stars to rule over the night,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;

10 to him who smote the first-born of Egypt,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
11 and brought Israel out from among them,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
12 with a strong hand and an outstretched arm,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
13 to him who divided the Red Sea in sunder,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
14 and made Israel pass through the midst of it,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
15 but overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red Sea,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
16 to him who led his people through the wilderness,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
17 to him who smote great kings,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
18 and slew famous kings,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
19 Sihon, king of the Amorites,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
20 and Og, king of Bashan,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
21 and gave their land as a heritage,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
22 a heritage to Israel his servant,
for his steadfast love endures for ever.

23 It is he who remembered us in our low estate,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
24 and rescued us from our foes,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
25 he who gives food to all flesh,
for his steadfast love endures for ever.

26 O give thanks to the God of heaven,
for his steadfast love endures for ever."
​

And as long as it's the subtlely beautiful Jesus prayer in question, bringing up a prayer from Jesus Himself seems good:

"So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words." --Matthew 26:44
​

May God continue to bless us all!

 

[Brighid]

The concern about repetition in prayer is common; this is good, because it shows that people are paying attention to Jesus' words & how to apply them. I would just like to offer another piece of Scripture, some food for thought when we're discussing the possibility of repetition being unbiblical. Try to see how the use of repetition enhances this passage, and how vain repetition could be different:

Psalm 136, RSV
O give thanks to the Lord, for he is good,
for his steadfast love endures for ever.
2 O give thanks to the God of gods,
for his steadfast love endures for ever.
3 O give thanks to the Lord of lords,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;


4 to him who alone does great wonders,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
5 to him who by understanding made the heavens,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
6 to him who spread out the earth upon the waters,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
7 to him who made the great lights,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
8 the sun to rule over the day,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
9 the moon and stars to rule over the night,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;

10 to him who smote the first-born of Egypt,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
11 and brought Israel out from among them,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
12 with a strong hand and an outstretched arm,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
13 to him who divided the Red Sea in sunder,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
14 and made Israel pass through the midst of it,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
15 but overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red Sea,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
16 to him who led his people through the wilderness,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
17 to him who smote great kings,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
18 and slew famous kings,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
19 Sihon, king of the Amorites,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
20 and Og, king of Bashan,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
21 and gave their land as a heritage,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
22 a heritage to Israel his servant,
for his steadfast love endures for ever.

23 It is he who remembered us in our low estate,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
24 and rescued us from our foes,
for his steadfast love endures for ever;
25 he who gives food to all flesh,
for his steadfast love endures for ever.

26 O give thanks to the God of heaven,
for his steadfast love endures for ever."
​

And as long as it's the subtlely beautiful Jesus prayer in question, bringing up a prayer from Jesus Himself seems good:

"So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words." --Matthew 26:44
​

May God continue to bless us all!

Thanks for sharing this Psalm! This is an excellent example!

 

[Lady Donna Marie]

The key difference is in the first two words... Our Father...

Repetition is not Relationship.

So let me try and understand what you are saying.

Are you saying the prayer Jesus gave us to say, the Lord's Prayer, if it is said more than once does not develop a relationship with God?

 

[Peter J Barban]

If you examine yourself, you will find that your mind cycles throughout the same basic thoughts and concerns throughout the day. Since you are constantly filled with the same issues, it is natural to repeat your prayers.

The proper attitude is to humble yourself before God and admit you often repeat yourself because you are so limited.

God does not hate repetitive prayer, he hates empty prayer. That is a big difference.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I think that you are right to be wary, but let's not throw out the truth with our caution. Who would say that reciting the Lord's Prayer is repetitious? For some, it is. It's become like a chant. But for many, it is meaningful and their motives are genuine. God hates religion. Prayer without reality is like gift-wrapping an empty box. And we need to stop asking for God to do what He's already done! Try thanking and declaring more and asking less.