"Repent of your sins to be saved" is false, works salvation

[Saint Steven]

That, during Jesus first coming, gentiles were not even given the option to repent of anything to be right with God

They did have a God-given conscience to follow or resist.

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

My dad worked to give me funds to buy whatever i want, but i do not have to ask for the things i want to buy, they just appear in my lap.

Edit: in case you are unaware this is sarcasm

 

[Saint Steven]

My dad worked to give me funds to buy whatever i want, but i do not have to ask for the things i want to buy, they just appear in my lap.

Usually doesn't work that way with an earthly father. Our heavenly Father is different. Moses didn't ask God to part the Red Sea. That was God's idea.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Usually doesn't work that way with an earthly father. Our heavenly Father is different. Moses didn't ask God to part the Red Sea. That was God's idea.

I guess John the Baptist and Jesus saying "repent for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand" meant what exactly? Do nothing?

 

[timothyu]

I don't think people are in need of alternative lifestyles

Yet the will of God commands us to love all as self, hence care for each other. In doing so we are doing the will of God rather than pursuing the sin of self interest.

 

[Saint Steven]

I guess John the Baptist and Jesus saying "repent for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand" meant what exactly? Do nothing?

I'm not against repentance. Sorry that you got that idea from what I am writing. My point is that repentance is an outcome of salvation, not a precursor, or even a requirement. We are saved regardless of our own actions. Anything else is salvation by works, not grace.

Forgiveness is a good example. Does God require us to forgive others even if they don't ask for our forgiveness? I hope you answer "Yes."

Why then would God require us to ask Him for forgiveness? It seems to me that it is already there to receive. No need to ask for it. Unless God operates under a lower standard than he expects from us.

Does God require us to ask Him for forgiveness even though he expects us to forgive those who don't ask us?

 

[Guojing]

I guess John the Baptist and Jesus saying "repent for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand" meant what exactly? Do nothing?

The idea of repentance is for the Jews and can be viewed from the parable of the tenants, told in all 3 synoptic gospels. (Matthew 21:33-46; Mark 12:1-12; Luke 20:9-19)

When Jesus and the 12 were preaching from Matt-John, they need to repent of rejecting God their Father in the OT, and believe in his Son is their promised King and Messiah, as foretold by their prophets.

But as Jesus told them in the parable of the tenants, they were wicked and decided to slay the son instead, thinking they can then take control of the vineyard. The words they told Pilate was really horrific from this perspective

Matthew 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

When Jesus was on the cross, he asked his father to forgive them for this act, because they know not what they do, the Father agreed to Jesus request.

So when Peter urged his Jewish brothers at Pentecost to repent (Acts 2:38), they are to repent from their horrific act of murdering the Son of God, and accept him once again as the Son of God and their King.

But of course they did not, so God blinded them temporary.

 

[timothyu]

Why then would God require us to ask Him for forgiveness?

Repentance is a change of heart and thinking. A switch from the self serving ways of man built upon putting our will ahead of the will of God. God since the Garden has commanded us to reverse that process.

 

[Saint Steven]

Repentance is a change of heart and thinking. ...

I agree with that, but it's not really a response to my post, or is it?

Saint Steven said:
Why then would God require us to ask Him for forgiveness?

 

[timothyu]

I agree with that, but it's not really a response to my post, or is it?

Just saying repentance and forgiveness are two different things. But asking for forgiveness is admitting our ways, compared to the ways of God, are backwards and wrong.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

I'm not against repentance. Sorry that you got that idea from what I am writing. My point is that repentance is an outcome of salvation, not a precursor, or even a requirement. We are saved regardless of our own actions. Anything else is salvation by works, not grace.

Forgiveness is a good example. Does God require us to forgive others even if they don't ask for our forgiveness? I hope you answer "Yes."

Why then would God require us to ask Him for forgiveness? It seems to me that it is already there to receive. No need to ask for it. Unless God operates under a lower standard than he expects from us.

Does God require us to ask Him for forgiveness even though he expects us to forgive those who don't ask us?

Works based salvation and simply admitting you need to acknowledge when you are wrong and ask for forgiveness is different. If asking for forgivenes is so much work that it's considered works based salvation then before you know it people will say you don't even have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior for salvation because that takes too much effort and is considered works based salvation. The term "works-based salvation" is thrown around all too often whenever anyone just wants people to do something in general. You still have to breath to live right?

1 Thessalonians 5:17 pray without ceasing

Is praying too much work? You tell me. Does God require it? Yes. Is it works based salvation? Just because you're doing something to contribute to your relationship with Jesus does not make a works-based anything.

 

[Saint Steven]

... before you know it people will say you don't even have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior for salvation...

Well, I'm a UR proponent. So, guilty as charged.
Everyone is already saved. Nothing to do with us.
This was already settled by the acts of the two Adams.
Scripture below.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just to be clear, everyone will acknowledge Jesus as Lord before entering heaven.
I can present the scripture on this if you like.

 

[Saint Steven]

Is praying too much work?

That's not my point. We weren't saved by praying. We were saved by the finished work on the cross. Not about us.

This question below went unanswered from my previous post. Your turn to be unresponsive? - LOL

Does God require us to ask Him for forgiveness even though he expects us to forgive those who don't ask us?

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

...So, guilty as charged.
Everyone is already saved...

That's where you are wrong, not everyone is already saved. We're going back and forth and getting no where. You've made your point you believe people are already saved without having to put in the effort of asking for forgiveness. If you think everyone is already saved i recommend reviewing scripture where Jesus says "Not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter into Heaven"

There are many verses but if you teach what you believe to other people you are not only in danger of being misled yourself but misleading others as well. Please be cautious of this, i am not trying to sound rude i just want you to be aware that Jesus asks us to put in effort in our relationship with Him. Part of that includes acknowledging when we sinned and asking for forgiveness.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

That's not my point. We weren't saved by praying. We were saved by the finished work on the cross. Not about us.

This question below went unanswered from my previous post. Your turn to be unresponsive? - LOL

Does God require us to ask Him for forgiveness even though he expects us to forgive those who don't ask us?

To counter your argument in that very verse you are referencing what does God do if we do not forgive others? He does not forgive us. It is possible to not be forgiven.

And just because God asks us to be merciful to others and forgive them does not mean we can remove our responsibility to ask Jesus for forgiveness.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

That's not my point. We weren't saved by praying. We were saved by the finished work on the cross. Not about us.

This question below went unanswered from my previous post. Your turn to be unresponsive? - LOL

Does God require us to ask Him for forgiveness even though he expects us to forgive those who don't ask us?

Whoever conceals their sins does not prosper, but the one who confesses and renounces them finds mercy.

Proverbs 28:13

 

[Saint Steven]

And just because God asks us to be merciful to others and forgive them does not mean we can remove our responsibility to ask Jesus for forgiveness.

Why the double standard?

Saint Steven said:
Does God require us to ask Him for forgiveness even though he expects us to forgive those who don't ask us?

 

[Saint Steven]

Whoever conceals their sins does not prosper, but the one who confesses and renounces them finds mercy.

Proverbs 28:13

Are you basing doctrine on poetry?

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Why the double standard?

Saint Steven said:
Does God require us to ask Him for forgiveness even though he expects us to forgive those who don't ask us?

Psalm 32

3 When I kept silent,
my bones wasted away
through my groaning all day long.
4 For day and night
your hand was heavy on me;
my strength was sapped
as in the heat of summer.
5 Then I acknowledged my sin to you
and did not cover up my iniquity.
I said, “I will confess
my transgressions to the Lord.”
And you forgave
the guilt of my sin.

Don't accuse God of a double standard.

“Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker, those who are nothing but potsherds among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, ‘What are you making?’ Does your work say, ‘The potter has no hands’? Isaiah 45:9

I can keep quoting scripture all day until you decide to read it and realize you're believing a false doctrine.

 

[Saint Steven]

That's where you are wrong, not everyone is already saved. We're going back and forth and getting no where. You've made your point you believe people are already saved without having to put in the effort of asking for forgiveness. If you think everyone is already saved i recommend reviewing scripture where Jesus says "Not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter into Heaven"

If we are playing Bible vs. Bible, I already gave you a scripture that supports my position. Much more where that came from.

Let me know if we are playing Bible vs. Bible, I've got plenty of ammo.

BTW: playing Bible vs. Bible, nobody wins. (in my experience)