"Repent of your sins to be saved" is false, works salvation

[Guojing]

Jesus said believing was enough John 3:16, John 3:18, John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:47, John 11:25-26

If believing was enough during the gospel of the kingdom, Jesus would have no need to state Matthew 5:17-19, Matthew 25:45-46, etc.

You cannot just use those particular statements by Jesus to conclude what he was preaching overall.

 

[Strong in Him]

As for repentance, as I said in my first post, "If there is repentance, it more to repent of our works to get right with God, and rest in Jesus's finished works."

Yes.
But the word "if" suggests to me that either you are not sure about it or feel that it might not be necessary. So if there was someone who believed that salvation was not down to them and their good works could not make them them right with God, they would have nothing to repent of.

You don't follow what Jesus commanded literally in Luke 12:33, no one I met does that,

Well firstly, it does not say that we have to sell ALL our possessions, and I do give to the poor.
Secondly, Jesus was talking to his 12 disciples and we can't assume that everything that he said to them applies to us and should be taken literally by us.
Thirdly, have you sold your possessions?

so you yourself are not following the final part of the "Great Commission", aka teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you.

Yes, I am - because Jesus did not teach ME, personally, that I had to go out and sell all my possessions.
John says that Jesus and the disciples had a purse in which they kept money - and Judas used to steal from it, John 12:6. So the disciples had a money bag that had, at least, a fair amount in it, or Judas would have had little to steal.

 

[timothyu]

Was Jesus talking about currency or the concept of sharing with those needing a hand getting back on their feet? Was He talking about assets or giving versus taking? Was he talking about possessions or about hoarding the concepts of self interest versus loving all as self?

 

[Guojing]

Secondly, Jesus was talking to his 12 disciples and we can't assume that everything that he said to them applies to us and should be taken literally by us.

Interesting, so you agree that Luke 12:33 was only a specific command to the little flock in Luke 12:32, which from this, you are saying you are not part of the little flock.

Yet, the so-called Great Commission in Matthew also began with this statement

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

If you think Luke 12:33 was a specific command to the 12, why are you not being consistent and also think that the GC was also likewise?

 

[Danthemailman]

The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side, what you change your mind about and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. *Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of receiving Christ.

Certain people misunderstand the term "repentance" to simply mean "turning from sin" or "completely stop sinning." That is not the Biblical definition of repentance. In the Bible, the word "repent" means to "change your mind." The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8) and not the essence of repentance (change of mind). Certain people confuse the "fruit of repentance" with the "essence of repentance" (and also do the same thing with faith) and end up teaching salvation by works.

I have heard certain people say, "If you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins." If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning. And in that case, it is unlikely that anyone will be saved, since we don't know anyone who has ever "completely stopped sinning." So repent of your sins "in that sense" would be false, works salvation.

 

[NHadlock]

I think there is a fundamental confusion here, the works of God in our salvation, of which there are two, the application of the cross,justification and redemption (Christ taking on our sins and giving to us His righteousness), and the New Birth, regeneration (through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit we now have a new heart, were we once loved our sin, we now love Christ and the things of Christ, we seek to live a Godly life).

The only outward evidence of either of these works of God is living out the new life. So then we are saved not by good works, but for good works, they are how we show our love for Christ, the working out of our salvation, or saintification. So then we uphold the fundamental of the reformation of of grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone, the glory of God alone, according to the scriptures alone, and because we believe all scripture is inspired of God and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, we see the clear message that salvation as a work of God and not of our own doing, justification is by faith alone, and also see the clear message that those who are saved are called to live a holy life, but confusion is introduced by use the term salvation to refer to justification as well as the total work of God in justification, regeneration, and our saintification (our growth in holiness after justification and regeneration).

 

[timothyu]

Wouldn't it be simpler to say instead of looking for what's in it for us, we should just care for each other.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Jude 1:4 “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”

1. I am not creeping in unaware in church
2. I am not teaching lasciviousness
3. I am not denying our Lord Jesus Christ

the Jude 1:4 accusation doesn't apply to teaching grace through faith salvation. Jesus said believe on him for salvation, we can't save ourselves, only he gives us eternal life we will never perish. Paul also taught faith alone. Works salvation is false, only Jesus shed blood on the cross saves sinners.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Peter didn't teach a works based salvation either.

It always fascinates me how many quote this scripture, especially when they want to declare we only have to believe in Jesus to have eternal life.

Ephesians 2:8-10

8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. 10 For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

note how the next paragraph changes the whole perspective after "so none of us can boast".
Faith (which means trust) is an ongoing foundation for every healthy relationship.
Do you think Jesus death and resurrection was so we could just give a "thanks for dying for me Jesus" and just continue on our merry way? This falsity permeating Christianity today is something I believed at one time as well.

The original sin was Adam and Eve putting their desire (human will) before Gods will. Jesus didn't just die so we could continue doing that (putting our will before Gods will in our lives), he died and was raised to new life.

Our responsibility once coming to Christ is both an act of faith and surrendering our will for his (that is dying to the flesh - which is the human will or as I like to say the "ego".). It's a sacrifice see, "not my will be done Father, but your will be done". Jesus did it and he was fully God and fully man. We can do it too, often though (because we are human) we need help and that help comes from the Holy Spirit. It's not just "belief", it's a walk of faith.

 

[Lost Witness]

Jesus, Paul, and Bible nowhere says to "repent of your sins to be saved" this is added in by false teachers who want to add to Jesus finished work on the cross. I get so sick of the ROYS preaching that you must do two things to be saved: Repent of all your sins, and oh yeah also believe on Christ. NO wrong, salvation is Christ alone nothing of our works, our works are filthy rags.

Jesus said believe on him to have eternal life. John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Paul said believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in Acts 16:30-31 there is not "repent of all your sins" as a requirement to be saved. Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Salvation is not us cleaning up our life, turning from sins, that is not salvation! otherwise Jesus didn't need to die on the cross! People who teach you must turn from all your sins and believe are teaching a works based salvation, and Christ doesn't get all the glory, it is demonic! we can't earn salvation that is a horrible false teaching.

The Biblical word repent means change of mind, repent and believe the gospel, not "repent of all your sins and believe" that is false, unbiblical, and ROYS preachers are falsely teaching.

There is No forgiveness of willful sin under grace,
Repentance is necessary or anyone that stumbles would Surely perish. (The LORD'S prayer is proof that repentance of sin is necessary)
With that being said,
As Christians we're to judge ourselves to make sure we REPENT of our mistakes.
Have a Blessed evening,
May the LORD Bless you and keep you

 

[Guojing]

There is No forgiveness of willful sin under grace,
Repentance is necessary or anyone that stumbles would Surely perish. (The LORD'S prayer is proof that repentance of sin is necessary)
With that being said,
As Christians we're to judge ourselves to make sure we REPENT of our mistakes.
Have a Blessed evening,
May the LORD Bless you and keep you

What is the sin gentiles needed to repent on under the gospel of the kingdom preached by Jesus during his first coming?

 

[GDL]

but confusion is introduced by use the term salvation to refer to justification as well as the total work of God in justification, regeneration, and our saintification (our growth in holiness after justification and regeneration).

Confusion is introduced when we separate the word "salvation" from anything God is doing to bring His creation back to order in the Christ - Jesus. Salvation is a process that includes all of these words and more.

 

[timothyu]

What is the sin gentiles needed to repent on under the gospel of the kingdom preached by Jesus during his first coming?

The same as it has been since the Garden, putting our will ahead of the will of God.

 

[Guojing]

The same as it has been since the Garden, putting our will ahead of the will of God.

So how would you understand Matthew 10:5, Matthew 15:24 and Ephesians 2:11-12?

 

[timothyu]

What's that got to do with what sin is?

 

[Guojing]

What's that got to do with what sin is?

That, during Jesus first coming, gentiles were not even given the option to repent of anything to be right with God

 

[timothyu]

That, during Jesus first coming, gentiles were not even given the option to repent of anything to be right with God

Don't forget that ten of the twelve tribes of the House of Israel were considered to be gentiles. Yet Jesus sent His apostles to go out to all of the House of Israel.

 

[Saint Steven]

Jesus, Paul, and Bible nowhere says to "repent of your sins to be saved"...

Interesting topic, thanks.

Perhaps it was The Apostle Peter in Acts chapter two who put the two together.

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. - Acts 2:38 NIV

Seems to me that repentance is the outcome of a new found relationship with God. --- Having met God, one naturally (supernaturally?) wants to turn from a sinful/selfish lifestyle and follow Jesus.

 

[Guojing]

Don't forget that ten of the twelve tribes of the House of Israel were considered to be gentiles.

Scripture for this?

 

[timothyu]

Seems to me that repentance is the outcome of a new found relationship with God. --- Having met God, one naturally (supernaturally?) wants to turn from a sinful/selfish lifestyle and follow Jesus.

How about a person can become disgusted with the ways of fellow man and upon discovering there is an alternative way, change allegiance from fellow man to the source of that alternate way

 

[Saint Steven]

How about a person can become disgusted with the ways of fellow man and upon discovering there is an alternative way, change allegiance from fellow man to the source of that alternate way

Change allegiance? Doesn't that put "salvation" before repentance, as I indicated? (quote below)

There's a difference between discovering a religious lifestyle that suits them better, and discovering God in a meaningful relationship.
I don't think people are in need of alternative lifestyles as much as they are in need of a divine encounter with the creator.

There are plenty of alternatives. And people jump from one to another all their lives in search of the only thing that ultimately satisfies.
Jesus isn't just another thing to try. Like Saul of Tarsus on the Road to Damascus, the encounter led to repentance as an outcome.

Saint Steven said:
Seems to me that repentance is the outcome of a new found relationship with God. --- Having met God, one naturally (supernaturally?) wants to turn from a sinful/selfish lifestyle and follow Jesus.