Repent of our Sins?

[Kenny'sID]

agreed and when the holy spirit indwells he doesn't leave as God isnt an Indian giver. Salvation has been secured for those its been/being granted to.

Often people memorize the same little tricks that they themselves were deceived by and repeat them to others.

Who ever claimed God takes anything back? That's a non thing that someone made up in order to create a deceptive spin. Please show me where anyone other than your people repeating that man made nonsense even thought such a thing? Any loss in this area is always our doing. It may be that you fell for it but I'd think twice before attempting to put a guilt trip on others in order to deceive them into coming over to my side.

Nothing new though, that's what easy way salvation does....a lot.

 

[1Reformedman]

Often people memorize the same little tricks that they themselves were deceived by and repeat them to others.

Who ever claimed God takes anything back? That's a non thing that someone made up in order to create a deceptive spin. Please show me where anyone other than your people repeating that man made nonsense even thought such a thing? Any loss in this area is always our doing. It may be that you fell for it but I'd think twice before attempting to put a guilt trip on others in order to deceive them into coming over to my side.

Nothing new though, that's what easy way salvation does....a lot.

Prove what I said came from "my people" as you so evidence lacking asserted. That is your claim and you presented no evidence for it. See Hitchens's razor.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

of course you wont because that would be too much like the right thing to do. The word If in the greek means more than it does in English and what it specifically means is based upon the context.

Biblical Greek is a dead language. You are relying entirely by faith in what scholars say or what somebody else says on what those words mean. English is not a language that you can fudge or change to make it say something different because we grew up speaking and writing it. God is simple, and he does not require us to learn dead languages to understand the Bible. But you are free to believe as you wish.

We believe in two different Bibles.
There is no basis to argue the truth if that foundation is destroyed.
If somebody does not like what their Bible says in the English, they can just try to find a scholar that matches their way of thinking of what they think the Bible should actually say.

 

[Oldmantook]

Read John 6 again contextually. Yes in John 10 Jesus was very clear that none could be plucked out of his hand or the father's hand. oh and I didn't take John 10 out of context. Jesus said MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE AND THEY FOLLOW ME. IF they know his voice they folow him. lt thereby follows logically if they dont hear his voice they arent going to follow him because they are spiritually dead, deaf and blind still. You are the one cherry picking instead of taking the bible in totality on specific teaching. Those who don't have ears to hear aren't sheep they are unbelievers and some are masquerading as goats.

Not all sheep automatically follow as we as believers have the choice whether to sin by catering to our flesh or not to sin by following the Spirit. Do you still sin? If so, is that a choice of yours? Or, are you sinless? The Corinthian church consisting of believers was plagued by chronic sin. Did they automatically obey or did Paul have to chastise and correct them. Unbelievers have no choice but to sin as they are not regenerate. Thus Paul is chastising believers in the church who are blatantly sinning. He would not waste his time correcting those who are unregenerate and have no ability not to sin. Your belief is unsupported by the scriptures.

I suggest you read John 6 - carefully. V.66 states that many of his disciples went back and followed Him no more. These are the ones who did not believe referenced in v.64. Also referenced in v.64 is Judas - the one who betrayed Jesus. Thus v.64 is referring to those disciples who did not believe and departed and Judas who believed but betrayed Jesus - two separate groups. Judas did not depart with the rest of those disciples who did not believe. He instead believed and remained with Jesus but later on betrayed Him. By definition one cannot betray someone unless he was first loyal to him to begin with. V. 70 explicitly states that Jesus CHOSE Judas which makes Judas one of the elect. Yet Judas IS A DEVIL - because Judas was a thief who habitually sinned by stealing from the money bag. Disobedience through habitual sin for the believer results in loss of salvation. That is why Jesus promised eternal life only for those sheep who OBEY - "hearing" and "following" in Jn 10:27-29. Scripture interprets scripture.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Prove what I said came from "my people" as you so evidence lacking asserted. That is your claim and you presented no evidence for it. See Hitchens's razor.

Of course I have evidence, and I'm surprised you didn't pick up on the fact I've seen that same claim here more than once, and only by your people. I'll keep an eye out and make a list of the claims as I run across them if you like. Where else would it come from? lol

I need a truthful answer, where did you get the concept from, did you come up with it our of the blue, or were you taught it by "your people"?. If neither, where then?

 

[Mathetes66]

Reformed Man: That's a thought-provoking topic for sure but repentance, in a nutshell, is the act of having godly sorrow for wrongdoing against God, turning away from it & doing your best not to repeat that sin. But repentance isn't possible for the lost one. Repentance is a spiritual thing. The lost can't understand them nor can they please God.

That is not the biblical definition of repentance. Here is an excellent verse distinguishing BETWEEN godly sorrow & repentance & salvation.

2 Cor 7:9,10 And now I rejoice, not because you were made sorrowful, but because your sorrow LED YOU TO repentance. For you felt the sorrow that God had intended & so were not harmed in any way by us. Godly sorrow brings (produces) repentance, that LEADS TO SALVATION without regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

Repentance IS not only possible but the very means by which God is able to save someone. It is the channel or the instrument that God uses to save someone by grace. God's salvation is not of ourselves, we are not saved by our works. Thus repentance is not a work.

Jesus taught & the prophets taught & the apostles taught that the lost were commanded, in the emphatic: YOU REPENT, YOU TURN FROM YOUR SINS & TURN TO GOD--so that He can save you.

I Thess 1:7-9 ...You became AN EXAMPLE to all the believers in Macedonia & in Achaia. For THE WORD OF THE LORD has sounded forth from you, not only in Macedonia & Achaia, but also in every place your faith toward God has gone forth, so that we have no need to say anything.

9For they themselves report about us what kind of a reception we had with you, & HOW YOU TURNED TO GOD FROM IDOLS to serve a living & true God...

Cornelius, a Gentile, is one of the prime examples of one who feared God & offered prayers to God & gave alms. These came up to God as a MEMORIAL TO HIM & so God sent an angel TO HIM to tell him to get the Apostle Peter to come & preach the gospel message to he & his house SO THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED.

Cornelius was pleasing to God because He had faith IN THE ONE TRUE GOD that existed & was diligently seeking for Him, to know Him & be saved. God knew that, so He showed Peter that all men might be saved, both Jew & Gentile in the same way: by Gods, mercy, compassion, love & grace through the instrument of faith.

Cornelius was not saved prior to Peter coming & preaching the gospel message. In fact He & those with him were saved IN THE MIDST OF PETER PREACHING! The Holy Spirit saw their faith in what Peter was preaching (Romans 10:17) & regenerated them while Peter was preaching!

And Scripture clearly says Cornelius was pleasing to God before he was even saved. (Acts 10:1-5,15,21,22 & Acts 11:1-18; Acts 17) Lost, spiritually dead people can please God by faith because they believe in the existence of the one true God (Heb 11:6) & are diligently seeking after Him (Acts 17:24-31), even though they not YET saved. That is the definition of faith! Without it you CAN'T please God, unbeliever or believer.

With it you please God that you are seeking after Him & He draws someone & brings people to preach the gospel so that they have godly sorrow over their sins & this leads to repentance & repentance leads to salvation.

Romans 10:12,13,17 For there is no distinction between Jew & Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding IN RICHES FOR ALL WHO CALL ON HIM; for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.” So faith COMES from hearing & hearing by THE WORD OF GOD.

Acts 11:1ff Now the apostles & the brethren who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received THE WORD OF GOD. 2And when Peter came up to Jerusalem, those who were circumcised took issue with him, 3saying, “You went to uncircumcised men & ate with them.”

4But Peter began speaking & proceeded to explain to them in orderly sequence, saying, “I was in the city of Joppa praying & in a trance I saw a vision, an object coming down like a great sheet lowered by four corners from the sky & it came right down to me & when I had fixed my gaze on it & was observing it I saw the four-footed animals of the earth & the wild beasts & the crawling creatures & the birds of the air.

7“I also heard a voice saying to me, ‘Get up, Peter; kill & eat.’ “But I said, ‘By no means, Lord, for nothing unholy or unclean has ever entered my mouth.’ But a voice from heaven answered a 2ND TIME, ‘What God has CLEANSED, no longer consider UNHOLY.’ This happened three times & everything was drawn back up into the sky.

11“And behold, at that moment 3 men appeared at the house in which we were staying, having been sent to me from Caesarea. The Spirit told me to go with them without misgivings. These six brethren also went with me & we entered the man’s house.

13“And he reported to us how he had seen the angel standing in his house & saying, ‘Send to Joppa & have Simon, who is also called Peter, brought here & he will SPEAK WORDS TO YOU BY WHICH YOU WILL BE SAVED, YOU & YOUR HOUSEHOLD.'

And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them JUST AS HE DID UPON US AT THE BEGINNING. And I remembered THE WORD OF THE LORD, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

17“Therefore if GOD GAVE THEM the same gift as He gave to us also AFTER BELIEVING IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” When they heard this, they quieted down & glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has GRANTED {not ordained} to the Gentiles also THE REPENTANCE THAT LEADS TO LIFE.”

Scripture does not teach TOTAL depravity, Calvinists do; Scripture teaches that man is spiritually dead because he is walking in his sins & evil desires but he is not TOTALLY dead to seeking after the one true God like a dead corpse is. But a spiritually dead person can respond & can repent & can believe in Christ because they are commanded to do so; thus Christ teaches.

God Himself says mankind now has the knowledge of what is good & what is evil (Gen 3:22). He has the ability to choose something good or something evil. However, he cannot make himself spiritually alive nor can he free himself from the power of sin over his life. Only Christ can do those. Only God can save someone.

Paul describes what it is like apart from Christ in knowing what is good in the inner man yet doing what is evil in the flesh in Romans 7.

Godly sorrow isn't repentance, it leads to & produces repentance, a change of mind, to turn from sin & to turn to God in order to be saved. Repentance isn't salvation, but it LEADS TO SALVATION. It isn't a work but the means by which one is lead to the salvation of God, when He saves someone.

God draws people when they by faith believe He exists & start seeking after Him. God opens people's minds to understand the Scriptures & the gospel, as He did with Lydia BEFORE she was saved (Acts 16:14-40). Again, as with Cornelius, she was a worshiper of the one true God & had faith in His existence, a proselyte of Judaism. Yet she wasn't yet saved.

Yet God opened her mind & heart to UNDERSTAND the gospel message that Paul & his companions were preaching. Again without faith it is impossible to please God & faith comes by hearing the word of God. God enabled her to understand the message. Then it was up to her, once understanding it, combined with her faith, that she RESPONDED to the message & the Lord saved her.

The Lord did not believe for her, the Lord did not repent for her, she chose to repent & believe the gospel message once she understood it when the Lord opened her mind & heart to be able to understand it.

Acts 16:14,15 Among those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a WORSHIPER OF GOD. The Lord OPENED HER HEART to respond to Paul’s message. And when she & her household had been baptized, she urged us, “If you consider me A BELIEVER IN THE LORD, come & stay at my house.” And she persuaded us.

One should also notice that even believers need the Lord to 'open the Scriptures so we might understand them.' (Luke 24)

The same occurred for the Roman jailer & his family (Gentiles). He had been listening to Paul & Silas, praying to & singing & praising the one true God, despite their injuries from the crowd. When the doors opened & the chains fell off the prisoners at the time of the earthquake, he was going to kill himself. But Paul prevented him from doing so!

The he asked the SIMPLE QUESTION: Sirs, what MUST I DO--in order to be saved? They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus & you will be saved, you & your household.” Then Paul &d Silas spoke THE WORD OF THE LORD TO HIM & TO EVERYONE IN HIS HOUSE.

He asked what must I DO in order for me to be saved. Paul responded that he & all those in his household must believe individually in the LORD Jesus Christ & then they would be saved. They heard the word of the Lord, they believed & then they were saved.

Paul fully stated that they, as Gentile unbelievers, had the ability TO BELIEVE the gospel message, the command being in the emphatic: YOU BELIEVE.

Paul didn't believe for them, He & Silas simply preached the gospel message. God didn't believe for them. It was the jailer & all those in his household who then believed & were then saved. Belief came BEFORE their being saved, their being regenerated. Calvinists put the cart before the horse.

Jesus taught the same as the apostles. He fully taught that unbelievers have the ability to repent & the ability to believe. He simply opens their hearts & minds TO UNDERSTAND the gospel message, so that THEY CAN REPENT & BELIEVE this message.

Matt 13:23 And the one on whom seed was sown on the THE GOOD SOIL, this is the man who HEARS THE WORD AND WHO UNDERSTANDS IT; who indeed BEARS FRUIT & brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty & some thirty."

Luke 8:15 But that on the GOOD GROUND are they, which IN AN HONEST & GOOD HEART, having HEARD THE WORD, keep it & bring forth fruit with patience.

Luke 13:1-5 At that time, some of those present told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. To this He replied, “Do you think that these Galileans were WORSE SINNERS than all the other Galileans, because they suffered this fate? NO, I tell you. But unless YOU REPENT, you too will all perish.

4Or those eighteen who were killed when the tower of Siloam collapsed on them: Do you think that they were MORE SINFUL than all the others living in Jerusalem? NO, I tell you. But unless YOU REPENT, you too will all perish.”

Jesus said this in the emphatic: YOU MUST REPENT. He fully believed they had the ability to repent. They did. God created man in his image, in His likeness, with the ability to choose. That didn't change after the fall of man. Man now had the knowledge of what is good & what is evil. And they had the ability to seek after the true God because God Himself put within each person the knowledge that He is the one true Creator & creation testifies to His eternal power & Deity, so each person is WITHOUT EXCUSE.

How a person chooses to respond that that knowledge determines whether he will seek after the true Creator rather than things in the creation. While man's choices are affected by mankind's fall under the law of sin & death, it doesn't make them incapable of responding in faith & diligently seeking after the one true God, to know Him & be saved by Him.

Some will suppress this truth, others will choose by faith to believe this true God exists & will seek after Him until they find Him & He finds them. God knows all hearts. He knows those who are seeking after Him in an honest & good heart as Jesus taught in the parable of the sower or the parable of the soils.

Remember that the seed needs to be sown IN GOOD SOIL--soil prepared for the seed. There is usually a period of time where God prepares someone, through circumstances, through drawing, through opening minds to understand the gospel message preached by His ambassadors, etc. that brings a person to be prepared for their day of salvation.

 

[1Reformedman]

Biblical Greek is a dead language. You are relying entirely by faith in what scholars say or what somebody else says on what those words mean. English is not a language that you can fudge or change to make it say something different because we grew up speaking and writing it. God is simple, and he does not require us to learn dead languages to understand the Bible. But you are free to believe as you wish.

We believe in two different Bibles.
There is no basis to argue the truth if that foundation is destroyed.
If somebody does not like what their Bible says in the English, they can just try to find a scholar that matches their way of thinking of what they think the Bible should actually say.

It seems you are assuming that I rely entirely by faith in what scholars say but you dont have any evidence to support that claim and you dont know that Im a student of both the Greek and Hebrew. English is not necessarily the best language version for the bible because many things cannot be translated from the original languages and many words in English don't have the same meanings in Greek or Hebrew. For instance, the word Hell is often referred to by many folks as the lake of fire but instead, hell in the Greek refers to other things, not linmen tou pyros (lake of fire.)

 

[1Reformedman]

Of course I have evidence, and I'm surprised you didn't pick up on the fact I've seen that same claim here more than once, and only by your people. I'll keep an eye out and make a list of the claims as I run across them if you like. Where else would it come from? lol

I need a truthful answer, where did you get the concept from, did you come up with it our of the blue, or were you taught it by "your people"?. If neither, where then?

Its called a logical deduction from exegeting the bible. Furthermore, you laid the claim and its your burden of proof. Not mine to refute. See the rules regarding the burden of proof.

 

[1Reformedman]

Not all sheep automatically follow as we as believers have the choice whether to sin by catering to our flesh or not to sin by following the Spirit. Do you still sin? If so, is that a choice of yours? Or, are you sinless? The Corinthian church consisting of believers was plagued by chronic sin. Did they automatically obey or did Paul have to chastise and correct them. Unbelievers have no choice but to sin as they are not regenerate. Thus Paul is chastising believers in the church who are blatantly sinning. He would not waste his time correcting those who are unregenerate and have no ability not to sin. Your belief is unsupported by the scriptures.

I suggest you read John 6 - carefully. V.66 states that many of his disciples went back and followed Him no more. These are the ones who did not believe referenced in v.64. Also referenced in v.64 is Judas - the one who betrayed Jesus. Thus v.64 is referring to those disciples who did not believe and departed and Judas who believed but betrayed Jesus - two separate groups. Judas did not depart with the rest of those disciples who did not believe. He instead believed and remained with Jesus but later on betrayed Him. By definition one cannot betray someone unless he was first loyal to him to begin with. V. 70 explicitly states that Jesus CHOSE Judas which makes Judas one of the elect. Yet Judas IS A DEVIL - because Judas was a thief who habitually sinned by stealing from the money bag. Disobedience through habitual sin for the believer results in loss of salvation. That is why Jesus promised eternal life only for those sheep who OBEY - "hearing" and "following" in Jn 10:27-29. Scripture interprets scripture.

There are no sheep of Jesus that dont follow him or that do not know his voice. I've studied John 6 from the Greek extensively. Oh and I never said a saved one doesn't or cannot sin. So I don't know where you get the idea that I did say that or that I even believe such a thing. Paul described in Romans his battle with sin as a believer.

 

[1Reformedman]

Often people memorize the same little tricks that they themselves were deceived by and repeat them to others.

Who ever claimed God takes anything back? That's a non thing that someone made up in order to create a deceptive spin. Please show me where anyone other than your people repeating that man made nonsense even thought such a thing? Any loss in this area is always our doing. It may be that you fell for it but I'd think twice before attempting to put a guilt trip on others in order to deceive them into coming over to my side.

Nothing new though, that's what easy way salvation does....a lot.

FYI Im a monergist. If you dont know what that is google it.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Its called a logical deduction from exegeting the bible. Furthermore, you laid the claim and its your burden of proof. Not mine to refute. See the rules regarding the burden of proof.

Please be patient, as I told you I'll be happy to work on that proof for you.

But, hey, you've told me all I need to know by evading my questions...or did you make up some kind of rule that says you can't answer a few simple questions? Could you mayby do that now.

 

[1Reformedman]

Biblical Greek is a dead language. You are relying entirely by faith in what scholars say or what somebody else says on what those words mean. English is not a language that you can fudge or change to make it say something different because we grew up speaking and writing it. God is simple, and he does not require us to learn dead languages to understand the Bible. But you are free to believe as you wish.

We believe in two different Bibles.
There is no basis to argue the truth if that foundation is destroyed.
If somebody does not like what their Bible says in the English, they can just try to find a scholar that matches their way of thinking of what they think the Bible should actually say.

There's only one bible. So I don't know where you get off with your ad homs

 

[1Reformedman]

Please be patient, as I told you I'll be happy to work on that proof for you.

But, hey, you've told me all I need to know by evading my questions...or did you make up some kind of rule that says you can't answer a few simple questions? Could you maybe do that now.

Evading? Ya mean not answering how you wanted them answered? That sure sounded rather arrogant.

 

[Cis.jd]

It says multiple times to repent and turn to God, but never repent of your sins.

There is a difference?

 

[redleghunter]

God is simple, and he does not require us to learn dead languages to understand the Bible. But you are free to believe as you wish.

Every English language translation comes from the original languages even the KJV.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There's only one bible. So I don't know where you get off with your ad homs

When you suggest that Greek at times will say something different than the English. The English was translated from the Hebrew and Greek.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Every English language translation comes from the original languages even the KJV.

Right. My point exactly. So the English should not say anything different.

 

[1Reformedman]

Eph 2:8-9 we are saved by Grace through faith NOT OF WORKS.

The Bible never says to repent of your sins. It says multiple times to repent and turn to God, but never repent of your sins.

If i'm saved by faith and continue in sin am i still saved? If you say "yes", then you are labeled as an easy believest and are disregarding scriptures like 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and Revelation 21:8 and Matthew 7:21-23

BUT

If you say "no" then you are saying that it takes faith and works to be saved which is completely unbiblical: Galatians 5:4 Ephesians 2:8-9 Romans 3:28

I propose that salvation can only be obtained when grace is given to you. FOR BY GRACE are we saved through faith. Once God gives you grace, you believe and you turn from your sins. Once one has received grace, they no longer want to sin, they want to obey God. Grace is overlooked in the Bible but you cant have faith or works without grace. Ephesians 2:10 2 Corinthians 12:9 Romans 6:14 Romans 11:6 Hebrews 4:16

You stated:

"It says multiple times to repent and turn to God, but never repent of your sins".

ok now my question for you is one that logically follows the issue of repenting and turning to God.

What are we to repent of other than sins?

Can you show us anything else in the bible we are supposed to be repenting over?

 

[redleghunter]

By definition one cannot betray someone unless he was first loyal to him to begin with. V. 70 explicitly states that Jesus CHOSE Judas which makes Judas one of the elect.

Judas was elect alright. Elected for destruction according to the Scriptures.

 

[Call me Nic]

No. John 5:24 says that you not only need to believe in Jesus, but you need to hear (obey) the words of Jesus, too. So we need Justification (God's grace through faith) and we need Sanctification (Holy living by God working through us) as a part of salvation. This is what John 5:24 is saying. 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and James 2:24 essentially say we need both Justification and Sanctification as a part of salvation, as well.

Justification and sanctification can be used interchangeably. For example, in 1 Corinthians 1:2 Paul writes, "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours..."

I mention this because Paul associates those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus with those who call upon his name. Romans 10:13 states that calling upon his name causes a person to receive salvation, that is, justification which Paul elaborates on throughout the epistle of Romans. Therefore, in Paul's sight, sanctification and justification were achieved the same way: by calling upon the name of the Lord.

What you're referring to I think is Christian consecration, otherwise known as growth in Christ-likeness; even the Orthodox acknowledge this biblical truth, which they call "Theosis" I believe. The idea is continual progression in the faith via the working of the Holy Spirit on the inward man, in which a Christian ought to be inclined with a prepared heart to the Lord's commands and ways. The Bible constantly exhorts us to Christian consecration and good works after receiving salvation like in Ephesians 2:10. However, Christian consecration comes as a result of salvation, and is not required to receive the free gift offered freely through Christ. Romans 5:17-18 explains salvation is the free gift of righteousness before God bought and paid for by Jesus Christ. This righteous standing cannot be obtained through merit, or maintained through works. Only in Christ by grace through faith are we made righteous. After all, the Lord is called our righteousness for a reason.