Reopen America or Save American Lives?

[sfs]

Maybe you didn't read them....1st 2 paragraphs, WAPO
COMPARED WITH the response in some previous outbreaks, including severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in 2003 and swine flu in 2009, biomedical detective work got underway quickly in China in December, when people began to suffer a pneumonia-like illness. Chinese researchers isolated the new coronavirus, sequenced its genetic code and prepared reagents for diagnostics. But during all the weeks of this activity in December, Beijing largely kept the lid on information. It did not alert the public until well into January. The thought police were still on the beat, even as the virus spread.

The common reactions of Chinese leaders to crisis — strict secrecy, media censorship, desperate attempts to protect “stability” and slavish adherence to central authority — were evident throughout the early period of the crisis, according to a detailed insider account published by the China Media Project. On Dec. 30, this account says, the Wuhan Health Commission “issued an order to hospitals, clinics and other healthcare units strictly prohibiting the release of any information about treatment of this new disease.”

You did read the 'insider account', right?:
“As far as I know, trying to contain a city of 11 million people is new to science.” This was how Dr. Gauden Galea, the World Health Organization’s country representative in China, described the situation facing the city of Wuhan when asked late last week for his update on the coronavirus outbreak.

It was clear from Galea’s remarks that the total containment of Wuhan, the city where I have lived for the past few decades, was not a course of action the WHO had recommended. Nor did the organization have any clear view on whether such an action would prove effective in limiting the spread of the disease. “It has not been tried before as a public health measure,” he said, “so we cannot at this stage say it will or will not work.”

I am now one of 11 million people in Wuhan who are living through this grand experiment, a measure that, Galea also said, shows “a very strong public health commitment and a willingness to take dramatic action.” From inside the curtain that now encloses my city, I wish to offer my thoughts on this “dramatic action,” and to judge what we have actually seen and experienced in terms of commitment to public health.

Closing Up the Cities

At 2AM on January 23, authorities in Wuhan suddenly issued the order to close off the city. According to the order, from 10AM that same day, all public buses, subways, ferries, long-distance buses and other transport services would be suspended; the airport and train stations would be shuttered. At this point, the WHO might have had reservations about the necessity and effectiveness of this strategy – but in any case, is was irreversible, and it would soon extend to neighboring cities as well.

In less than two days, up to noon on January 24, a total of 14 cities in Hubei province would be brought into the quarantine zone. These cities, with a population of around 35 million, include: Huanggang (黄冈) and E’zhou (鄂州), were quickly brought under the order for closure. More cities followed: Chibi (赤壁), Xiantao (仙桃), Zhijiang (枝江), Qianjiang (潜江), Xianning (咸宁), Huangshi (黄石), Enshi (恩施)、Dangyang (当阳), Jingzhou (荆州), Jingmen (荆门) and Xiaogan (孝感).

This was no longer a city under lockdown, but effectively an entire province under quarantine.

Also, note the publication dates on the media papers......

Reminder: I asked you for evidence that the Chinese were lying two months after the outbreak started in December.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Reminder: I asked you for evidence that the Chinese were lying two months after the outbreak started in December.

As I said: Look at the dates.....

 

[sfs]

As I said: Look at the dates.....

i did. And I looked at the contents.

 

[civilwarbuff]

i did. And I looked at the contents.

Then I can't help you anymore than that....enjoy your day....

 

[LostMarbels]

ing you to stay put to avoid spreading the disease to others.

If you are inside your house you will never come in contact with me. Why the concern?

Quarantine yourself. You will not contract it from others.

What ever happened to personal accountability in this country? Wash Your hands. Cover, and do not touch your face. Do not group up more than 10 deep, and practise social distancing. Clean your work area. Clean your cell phone, and other objects you touch.

You catching this virus, is reliant on your hygiene, and your social practises. Why do I need to stay home? Follow the rules. Comply with directions and all is good. That is within your control. I, am not.

Stop expecting someone else to adopt actions to keep you safe. Take responsibility and follow the directives.

 

[expos4ever]

If you are inside your house you will never come in contact with me. Why the concern?

Come on man - almost all of us have to venture out occasionally (groceries, pharmacy). If, repeat if, someone says they are planning on living life normally - going out and about for other than essential reasons - then there are only two possibilities:

- that person has a cognitive impairment - does not understand the risk they pose to others.
- that person is a despicable human being.

catching this virus, is reliant on your hygiene, and your social practises. Why do I need to stay home? Follow the rules. Comply with directions and all is good. That is within your control. I, am not.

Stop expecting someone else to adopt actions to keep you safe. Take responsibility and follow the directives.

Sheer unmitigated idiocy. You cannot possibly be so dumb as to believe what you are posting here.

 

[LostMarbels]

Sheer unmitigated idiocy. You cannot possibly be so dumb as to believe what you are posting here.

Dang... that went from zero to hissy fit right quick.

So tell me, what did I leave out in my 'unmitigated idiocy' that isn't/is present bellow? Pretty sure tho it will become apparent you are just not getting your way, and/or hearing what you demand to be told. If you want that, go scream at the mirror. I will not indulge you.

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) – Prevention & Treatment

 

[expos4ever]

So tell me, what did I leave out in my 'unmitigated idiocy' that isn't/is present bellow? Pretty sure tho it will become apparent you are just not getting your way, and/or hearing what you demand to be told. If you want that, go scream at the mirror. I will not indulge you.

You have been asking a patently stupid question - "why do I need to stay home?".

The fact that I can take steps to reduce the risk of your reckless behaviour makes your question no less moronic. And yes, report me if you must - I am willing to take the heat from management: I would rather be banned for pointing out abject stupidity than to take the chance that someone else will be duped in by your absurd reasoning.

 

[LostMarbels]

The fact that I can take steps to reduce the risk of your reckless behaviour

No, you can't.

How are you going to get me to keep from touching my face or ensure I wash my hands?

Even if you have it, you cannot give it to me if I cover my face and mouth, keep at min 6 feet from you, and use hand sanitizer after having met you.

The thing you are not getting is this virus is contact and large droplet transmissible. Not airborne. You have to come in contact with it, and not take the proper precautions to contract it.

I would rather be banned for pointing out abject stupidity than to take the chance that someone else will be duped in by your absurd reasoning.

Ok...

If you are reported it won't be me. I honestly couldn't care less what your personal opinion of me is. Have a great day.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

This is not a war. it is a virus.

Do it then. What is keeping you from locking yourself indoors for the next 4 months? Year? Whatever... until this blows over?

I have, actually. I’ve been on self-isolation for 8 days. But, like actual isolation. I don’t go for walks. I don’t run out to WalMart. I don’t eat out. I’m not taking my kids out. I am home. My meds come in my courier. My food is from Schwan’s. My household supplies are Etsy and Amazon.

The fun thing, though, is that I self isolated because I have Crohn’s Disease and MS am on chemo and biotherapy to manage both diseases (and I had cancerous growths in my colon, so chemo for that too). Every 5th Wednesday for the last 4 years, I have gone to my hospital to get the chemo and biotherapy to keep things in remission. I’m due for another one April 15th...

But I’m not getting it.

Why you ask?

Because people like you who think nobody can force them inside, it’s their right to go out and pretend life is normal, are finding out in droves that hand sanitizer and soap isn’t all it takes to control Corona and they’re looking for treatment. As a result, my hospital, the largest medical center in 3 states, is running out of gloves, masks, and IV tubes. Due to these shortages, my treatment was unceremoniously cancelled until further notice... My appointment, along with the other 90-100 patients that unit processes Every. Single. Day.

So even though I’m doing things 100% right, I met with my doctor and a counselor via teleconference and was told that even though I’m 38, dealing with a disease with a low mortality, and has been successfully managed for almost half a decade, I will now have to figure it out on my own. And, I shouldn’t worry too much... If things deteriorate, I can “probably” come in via the ER for an emergency procedure to remove my colon and get an ileostomy bag. But in case Corona has them overwhelmed and they don’t have the space or personnel to help, here’s the number for the department that helps you assemble your living and non-living will.

In the time between my last round of chemo on February 26th and today, I went from successfully living and working and being a productive member of society with a disease very few people in third world countries, much less industrialized countries, die from... To sitting with my 9, 10, and 13 year old and saying “Mom is about to go off her medications and be very sick, and it might be scary...” And it’s a conversation 100 other patients are having with their families.

But, don’t worry. If I die, even though Corona was the reason for it, I won’t be listed as a Corona statistics. Everybody will be able to go on about their merry way saying “it’s just the flu, not that many people died, let’s not let it get in the way of going shopping.”

 

[Tropical Wilds]

And I’d like to point out, I work for a bunch of “socialist hippies,” so when I said I needed to isolate and I don’t know for how long, they told me to take all the time I needed, they won’t charge me sick time, I’ll still get my full paycheck, keep my benefits, and have my job held for me. God help the people who don’t work for “socialist hippies” who lose their position, their pay, their benefits, who can’t isolate, or who get sick. I don’t know what I’d do if I had to worry about money and my job stability on top of it.

Oh, and when I cried to a coworker privately over losing chemo, HR called to let me know they have an employee care fund and they will draw from it to help me find care elsewhere and offer me a 0% loan for medical expenses up to $40,000. So I have it good.

 

[Once Upon A Time]

Close the country up like India. They are in nation wide lock down. Dead people can’t work. Sure the economy will hurt but people will have their lives so they can rebuild. I’m sorry, but I would rather eat canned beans and live in a shack with my family than be burying my mom and daughter. There is no coming back from that.

 

[LostMarbels]

Because people like you who think nobody can force them inside

Right, blame me, a perfectly healthy person, that uses ppe including gloves while outside of the house instead of the at risk individual that should remain indoors.

It isn't their decisions to leave quarantine that exposed them to the virus. It's me. It is all my fault. Guess what? I'm not going to be walking into your home. You are safe there.

Do not go for a walk. Do not leave the house. Do not contact people, and you will be at lesser risk. I am not at fault if you decide to leave your home, and do not practice correct disciplines.

 

[LostMarbels]

Close the country up like India. They are in nation wide lock down. Dead people can’t work. Sure the economy will hurt but people will have their lives so they can rebuild. I’m sorry, but I would rather eat canned beans and live in a shack with my family than being burying my mom and daughter. There is no coming back from that.

You can most certainly do that. Why don't people see they can self isolate if they so choose? If you feel it is best to avoid all contact, and eat beans, do it. You have that right. Go about your business.

 

[expos4ever]

Phillipians 2:4: Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.

1 Corinthians 10:24: Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.

Let the reader judge whether someone who insists on carrying on as normal - and let others take precautions - is acting in the spirit of these words from Paul.

 

[LostMarbels]

Phillipians 2:4: Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.

1 Corinthians 10:24: Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.

Let the reader judge whether someone who insists on carrying on as normal - and let others take precautions - is acting in the spirit of these words from Paul.

You want the country 'shut down'.... so you do not come in contact with the virus, is that correct?

 

[loveofourlord]

Right, blame me, a perfectly healthy person, that uses ppe including gloves while outside of the house instead of the at risk individual that should remain indoors.

It isn't their decisions to leave quarantine that exposed them to the virus. It's me. It is all my fault. Guess what? I'm not going to be walking into your home. You are safe there.

Do not go for a walk. Do not leave the house. Do not contact people, and you will be at lesser risk. I am not at fault if you decide to leave your home, and do not practice correct disciplines.

it's your attitude along with many others on these forums that are doingf it, it may not be her, but your likly causing uneeded suffering to another person, your own selfishness is disgusting.

 

[LostMarbels]

it's your attitude along with many others on these forums that are doingf it, it may not be her, but your likly causing uneeded suffering to another person, your own selfishness is disgusting.

Well you can achieve that goal with some self discipline by quarantining yourself against the outside world. My participation is not even required, for you to not leave your own house until this is over. I am not even in that equation. That is a personal choice and a decision that is solely your own.

So if you can self quarantine, achieve your goal of not coming in contact with the virus, why are you demanding I do the same? You, are already safe because you are hunkered down for several months.

 

[expos4ever]

So if you can self quarantine, achieve your goal of not coming in contact with the virus, why are you demanding I do the same? You, are already safe because you are hunkered down for several months.

Look Einstein, if you act as if you are above the restrictions, then:

- the little old lady who has to go out for groceries might catch the virus from you.

- the 30 year old with cystic fibrosis who has to visit the doctor might touch a door handle that you did, forget to carefully clean their hands, and 14 days later they are dead. If you had not touched that door handle - this person would still be alive.

Get it now, genius?

 

[Once Upon A Time]

Look Einstein, if you act as if you are above the restrictions, then:

- the little old lady who has to go out for groceries might catch the virus from you.

- the 30 year old with cystic fibrosis who has to visit the doctor might touch a door handle that you did, forget to carefully clean their hands, and 14 days later they are dead. If you had not touched that door handle - this person would still be alive.

Get it now, genius?

Exactly! I totally agree. People can get it and not have any symptoms so they don’t know they have it. Then they go out in public and spread it to those that can’t handle the virus like the elderly or people with disease.