Reopen America or Save American Lives?

LostMarbels

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SO WILL THE VIRUS, this isn't a all or nothing game, eitehr way there is harm which people like you don't get.

Of course I get it. It is transparent as glass.

what is the damage to the economy of many people dying including the young because they can't get the medical care they need, millions being sick thousands of people dying and losing loved ones.

Wash your hands.... don't touch your face.... cover your mouth and nose.... keep 6 feet from one another and do not group up more then 10 deep.

Why am I responsible for people that cannot even be bothered following easily fulfilled precautions?

My wife works at 7/11. She wears gloves and a make at the register. She even took a pack of clorox clean ups she use for the register area, and changes her clothes before she comes home to jump directly in the shower.

Be responsible.
 
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LostMarbels

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@loveofourlord

You know the other thing is you can stay in your home for how many months, and not even come out. That way you're not coming into contact with anyone. There... done. Now all the risk is mine.

If you want to stay indoors, then stay indoors. Problem solved.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Ultimately, programs are in place to help countries, cities, citizens, and businesses recoup losses and shore up finances. It won’t happen overnight, it will be hard work, but it is doable.

However, they’ve yet to find the way to bring back dead people. General mortality rates across other treatable illnesses will increase as medical care is bent past the point of breaking; recouping the loss of life and bodily function that creates is impossible.

To me, the choice seems obvious.

It is amazing to me the generations that were willing to get ration stamps during WWII, gas ration during an oil crisis, and enact drafts in order to fight a war all for the benefit of the nation and its people now ~*ReFuSeS*~ to stay home from WalMart to slow the spread of a pandemic because it’s *really* inconvenient.
 
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Sistrin

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The OP title question is a red herring.

We are smart enough as a people to do both, and should. However this is an election year, and the Democrats will not let go of this opportunity to fear-monger their way along another attempt to seize power and, of course, money to fund every little leftist pet project Nancy Pelosi can conjure up.
 
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thecolorsblend

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Economists warn that keeping the U.S. closed will result in a crisis far worse than the Great Depression. But health experts warn to reopen the U.S. would expose millions of Americans to the Coronavirus.
The dichotomy appears to be a stack of dead bodies on one side and a stack of dead bodies on the other. It may be that we have to choose whichever side has the lowest number of dead bodies.
 
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LostMarbels

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It is amazing to me the generations that were willing to get ration stamps during WWII, gas ration during an oil crisis, and enact drafts in order to fight a war all for the benefit of the nation and its people now ~*ReFuSeS*~ to stay home from WalMart to slow the spread of a pandemic because it’s *really* inconvenient.

This is not a war. it is a virus.

To me, the choice seems obvious.

Do it then. What is keeping you from locking yourself indoors for the next 4 months? Year? Whatever... until this blows over?
 
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civilwarbuff

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What China demonstrated is that it's possible to control the outbreak by shutting things down hard for a couple of months, and then gradually easing up.
That is assuming you can believe what they are telling other nations. They lied about CV back in December when it first appeared then continued to lie about it for 2 months until the news broke about illness in the rest of the world. Like most communist countries they have not learned that big secrets, such as CV, can only be kept secret for a short time.
 
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sfs

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This is more of the media's fear mongering.
No, it's the sober assessment of just about every public health expert out there. Why do you think you know more about this outbreak than they do?
It is easy to push the panic button on a new virus, but most viruses are new each mutation anyway.
No, they're really not.
We have and we will survive. The fear mongering in the media is mostly pointed at blaming Trump for anything and everything. The media elite just want him gone. If you can't smell that agenda, you have no nose.
Then I have no nose. I see a massive public health calamity already beginning, and lots of people dismissing it for the sole reason that they think it makes Trump look bad.
 
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sfs

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LostMarbels

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Then I have no nose. I see a massive public health calamity already beginning, and lots of people dismissing it for the sole reason that they think it makes Trump look bad.

No on is dismissing the 'calamity'. I personally am dismissing the notion I have to remain locked up to make you feel better. You go lock yourself up then you are not exposed to me.

As for the stock market, (making Trump look bad) the only people freaking out are the ones that dont know how to play the market. I'm going to have next months mortgage here soon. When all this kicked off noble energy was at nearly $25 a share. I bought them for $4.30 a share, already gained 57.56% in value and it continues to climb. I'm not trying to build a portfolio here. Just buy low sell high and volatility will pay out.

Everything is down because no one is spending. Not because the economy is weak. The economy is still roaring. Once this virus passes I get a ride right up to the top. But boy do people love laughing that Trump's economy is in the dumps.
upload_2020-3-25_13-47-56.png
 
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grasping the after wind

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civilwarbuff

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I was hoping for some evidence of the lying.
China Lied And People Died: Chinese Scientists Destroyed Wuhan Coronavirus Evidence in December
https://nypost.com/2020/02/08/chinas-culture-of-lies-has-helped-spread-the-coronavirus/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...7850ea-42c8-11ea-b503-2b077c436617_story.html

For someone who comments so extensively on this thread and appears they are well informed on the aspects and impacts of CV I find it surprising you don't seem to have a clue about this part of it....
 
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sfs

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I already agreed that local officials lied early in the outbreak. I was asking for evidence that they were continuing to lie for two more months. What you've offered is two pieces about lies from local officials early in the outbreak, and one opinion piece that's strikingly light on evidence.
For someone who comments so extensively on this thread and appears they are well informed on the aspects and impacts of CV I find it surprising you don't seem to have a clue about this part of it....
I've heard lots of stories about lots of things. I prefer to operate on evidence.
 
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civilwarbuff

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I already agreed that local officials lied early in the outbreak. I was asking for evidence that they were continuing to lie for two more months. What you've offered is two pieces about lies from local officials early in the outbreak, and one opinion piece that's strikingly light on evidence.

I've heard lots of stories about lots of things. I prefer to operate on evidence.
Maybe you didn't read them....1st 2 paragraphs, WAPO
COMPARED WITH the response in some previous outbreaks, including severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in 2003 and swine flu in 2009, biomedical detective work got underway quickly in China in December, when people began to suffer a pneumonia-like illness. Chinese researchers isolated the new coronavirus, sequenced its genetic code and prepared reagents for diagnostics. But during all the weeks of this activity in December, Beijing largely kept the lid on information. It did not alert the public until well into January. The thought police were still on the beat, even as the virus spread.

The common reactions of Chinese leaders to crisis — strict secrecy, media censorship, desperate attempts to protect “stability” and slavish adherence to central authority — were evident throughout the early period of the crisis, according to a detailed insider account published by the China Media Project. On Dec. 30, this account says, the Wuhan Health Commission “issued an order to hospitals, clinics and other healthcare units strictly prohibiting the release of any information about treatment of this new disease.”

You did read the 'insider account', right?:
“As far as I know, trying to contain a city of 11 million people is new to science.” This was how Dr. Gauden Galea, the World Health Organization’s country representative in China, described the situation facing the city of Wuhan when asked late last week for his update on the coronavirus outbreak.

It was clear from Galea’s remarks that the total containment of Wuhan, the city where I have lived for the past few decades, was not a course of action the WHO had recommended. Nor did the organization have any clear view on whether such an action would prove effective in limiting the spread of the disease. “It has not been tried before as a public health measure,” he said, “so we cannot at this stage say it will or will not work.”

I am now one of 11 million people in Wuhan who are living through this grand experiment, a measure that, Galea also said, shows “a very strong public health commitment and a willingness to take dramatic action.” From inside the curtain that now encloses my city, I wish to offer my thoughts on this “dramatic action,” and to judge what we have actually seen and experienced in terms of commitment to public health.

Closing Up the Cities

At 2AM on January 23, authorities in Wuhan suddenly issued the order to close off the city. According to the order, from 10AM that same day, all public buses, subways, ferries, long-distance buses and other transport services would be suspended; the airport and train stations would be shuttered. At this point, the WHO might have had reservations about the necessity and effectiveness of this strategy – but in any case, is was irreversible, and it would soon extend to neighboring cities as well.

In less than two days, up to noon on January 24, a total of 14 cities in Hubei province would be brought into the quarantine zone. These cities, with a population of around 35 million, include: Huanggang (黄冈) and E’zhou (鄂州), were quickly brought under the order for closure. More cities followed: Chibi (赤壁), Xiantao (仙桃), Zhijiang (枝江), Qianjiang (潜江), Xianning (咸宁), Huangshi (黄石), Enshi (恩施)、Dangyang (当阳), Jingzhou (荆州), Jingmen (荆门) and Xiaogan (孝感).

This was no longer a city under lockdown, but effectively an entire province under quarantine.

Also, note the publication dates on the media papers......
 
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expos4ever

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I personally am dismissing the notion I have to remain locked up to make you feel better. You go lock yourself up then you are not exposed to me.
Huh?

The notion that we are asking you to stay put to make us 'feel better' is the very definition of falsehood. We (that is, the experts) are asking you to stay put to avoid spreading the disease to others. It is not possible that anyone could be so dumb as to not realize this - so why are you misrepresenting thus?

You are a 'follower of Jesus`, right?
 
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Kaon

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Economists warn that keeping the U.S. closed will result in a crisis far worse than the Great Depression. But health experts warn to reopen the U.S. would expose millions of Americans to the Coronavirus.

Humans are called consumers and treated as commodities; what do you think is more important?

It should not be surprising that after 50 years of "woo" warnings about the corporate entity known as the USA they are now coming out with it full on. We have begged for this through our ignorance and low tolerance for discrepancies in our perceived/illusion reality. We should be happy the fruits of our folly have finally come to fruition.
 
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