Renumeration of pastors and making money off religion

[bèlla]

I'm beginning to wonder if that arcane setup is even viable, at all, in this information age...

*I think it may have served some structural purpose in the body's growth at one time, but may actually hinder it today.

In my previous walks we often polled the group to gauge the background and reasons which led the members to its path. In most instances the majority came from Christian homes or received Christian instruction during their youth. The numbers were greatest in Pagan circles. Hovering near 50% at the time and may have moved beyond that point today.

We need to consider the hierarchy of other religions in this discussion. Most practitioners seek alternative forms of worship because something resonates with them in these systems that isn't found in Christianity. This is important. And we must pay heed to its central message. Most echo morality and other tenets that we can find merit in. This reveals an important truth. The practitioner's intent isn't evil. They are seeking truth, a relationship with God, knowledge, etc. They believe the path is good.

This differs from other paths who needn't cloak their intentions through moral platitudes or behaviors. There are still measures of deception as found in the others. But as a rule, the premise is clear. Their will proceeds all save the group and the one they serve.

We aren't referencing the latter in our discussion. We're addressing people who are clinging to a message which falls outside of biblical teachings. Understanding the reasons for that error are paramount. You can't stop the leak without knowing its cause and origination. Consideration must be given for common denominators and others which may be present in some groups and not in others. This includes racial and financial differences.

The central theme in prosperity teachings is hope and possibility. The overarching theme in the message is encouragement and greatness. And joy is a constant. For this group of people the church has failed to address their needs in this area. To the degree where they have gravitated to a message which fills that role.

The expansion of their conscious and cessation of limited thinking has a greater impact than most know. They fasten on money and the lifestyles of its teachers without noticing the parallels in other sectors. For many it's akin to hearing Tony Robbins with a religious slant. Outsiders say they're spiritually malnourished without considering the mental fortitude they're developing. In short, there's good and bad involved.

Disparity is a hot button word in today's culture. What people fail to grasp is its impact is not the same. Poverty drives one person to illegal means and another raids the library or turns on something inspirational. We respond to challenges differently. There's also the Christian concept of suffering and for many that means wearing their woe on their sleeve and discussing it whenever possible.

I suspect that many of the people who are drawn to those messages are those whose disposition is more upbeat and naturally positive than the majority. Their capacity to see the good or bright side during difficult moments is notable. The merits of joy and happiness can't be ignored. When you feast on the two you see life through different lenses. You see what's possible in light of your faith and give less attention to the situation at hand. Casting your care makes this attainable as does trust in the Most High.

I'm reminded of a song by U2. I think its words are apropos and I'll close with them.

I have climbed highest mountain
I have run through the fields
Only to be with you
Only to be with you

I have run
I have crawled
I have scaled these city walls
These city walls
Only to be with you

But I still haven't found what I'm looking for

They didn't find it in the usual places and were drawn to the lone place they did. I can relate to this. I was led away from the church for the same reasons. The hollow was too great to ignore. And even though I know Christ as my Savior; I have yet to find my place.

 

[bèlla]

Sorry about my edit. I have alot of expertise, though. In fact, sometimes I have contemplated becoming a theologian, my pastor has suggested it.

It is my belief that God permits our exploration to enable us to see things from different vantage points. It's akin to the person who never leaves home versus the one who steps outside his comfort zone. You may return to your beginning but you develop an appreciation for differences.

When I speak of experience for myself I'm addressing a religious framework from various systems which enabled me to pursue study and practice with my spiritual goals in mind. In many ways I'm a mural of sorts and each experience has allowed me to see common bonds and unique approaches. I am not dependent on a book or pastor's interpretation of what this means. I can reference a memory which enhances the personal touch and is less like preaching and more experiential.

I guess you are interested in personal testimony, that does seem to be the modern approach for many people.

Consider the word in your statement. Testimony. That is your witness. We aren't meant to keep it locked within. We're meant to share it with others aloud. And in our telling the hearer is enriched by our experience with God and how He used our mistakes and shortcomings to draw us near. In short, we bring the gospel to earth for our listener.

My Orthodox past bleeds through and I feel a bit embarrassed to talk about anything touching on spiritual experiences because they are so intimate and personal. It's like talking about your sex life.

I think you'd have a deeper impact if you did. I've been surprised by the responses I've received from my experiences. It's my job to tell the story and the Holy Spirit's to move minds and hearts. ;-)

I got very much into the notion of being Eastern Orthodox, allured by an intuitively more Eastern approach to things anyways (at one time in my life, I identify as a Buddhist).

I have practiced Hinduism and Buddhism. I have always appreciated the peace I found in the latter. A mind and heart at peace is a wondrous thing. It is the thing I prize most about my faith and one I'm not willing to set aside without reason.

I think the Lord knows where to place us. Some people flourish in traditional settings and others will wither. With all the access I had to priests as a child and bible study I was never Catholic at heart. I didn't have a disposition that's all-in. I questioned their beliefs and practices even then.

I never felt a deep seeded need for him or any pastor for that reason. The constant throughout my life was a need for God. I did not esteem men or tradition. That's understandable to see in an adult but it was evident in my youth.

I'm not a follower. I am more inclined to a lead a group than join one.

 

[Tone]

she focuses on the destructive effects of Neo-Pentecostalism in her own country.

After watching the video, the only thing I can see her focusing on is her perception that the leaders of the Latin American church are pushing sexism. She blames Fundamentalism...again and again, because they interpret the Scriptures that seem to uphold the man as head of the woman, as literal, e.g., women should not have authority over men. However, she doesn't really offer an alternative interpretation, other than what, I would call Peshat (Peshat - Wikipedia) methodology. I agree, that every member should be encouraged to study to the same degree, without respect to gender, but I lean towards a literal view of 1 Corinthians 14:34:

"Let your women be silent in the assemblies, for they are not allowed to speak, but to be in subjection, just as The Written Law also says."

However, we have a very different view of what these "assemblies" are. Most of the time is spent in the home, or small groups, or at communal meals, or even on internet forums, so women do have ample opportunity to communicate. There are also verses prohibiting women to teach:

1 Timothy 2:12
"For I do not allow a woman to teach, neither to usurp over a man, but she should be quiet;"

Which, again I lean towards being a literal and binding directive. But, obviously, since I watched the video of a woman teaching, I believe that there is a very broad range of interpreting to be done. Interestingly enough, I am relocating to a region where the only like minded fellowship I could find has a woman as their elder "pastor". Now, as I mentioned earlier, I believe that the whole "churchianity" type set up is outdated, so I'm already not excited about this place. But, I also know that "church" is more than an organization (which is modeled after the corporation these days) and I know that this lady "elder" is not the only person attending, so who am I to make the call that all the members there are in error? So, I will check it out and "chew the meat and spit out the bone".

*Oh yeah, I am curious to know if these Latin American "Neo Pentecostals" are coming out of the RCC. And if we in the U.S. have already experienced our reformations, so to speak, why should we discount theirs...as if it is not in Yah's Hands?

 

[Dave-W]

Why are there 2 threads with the same name in the same folder????

 

[Tone]

Why are there 2 threads with the same name in the same folder????

I blame it on the bots...

 

[Tone]

Why are there 2 threads with the same name in the same folder????

On a serious note, thanks for pointing that out...I didn't even see all the other posts on the same topic...I think a merger is due.

*Renumeration of pastors and making money off religion