Renting out parish halls for secular events.

Constantine the Sinner

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I've seen a few Orthodox parishes do this, and frankly it is a disastrous idea. A couple got sued not to long ago for refusing to rent their chapel to a gay couple for a wedding; they paid through the nose, and were compelled by a court order to allow it. Once you start a commercial venture, you open yourself up to this. If your parish is planning on renting their parish hall for commercial events, please remind them of the tremendous risks.
 

Aryeh Jay

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A synagogue I attended that did something similar, they announced that they were going to rent the building to a Church that did not have a place to meet. A lot of people were up in arms about it so the president proposed raising the yearly dues for all members by $1000-2000 to make up for the budget shortfalls that come with an ageing community with no new members coming in and the children moving to other cities when they grow up. Needless to say, it is a Unitarian Church on Sundays now.
 
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Constantine the Sinner

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The OCA put out some guidance just last year about this, actually!
Well I'm Greek Orthodox, and it seems like a lot of parishes are clueless about this, but I am very happy the OCA has their head screwed on straight.

Also, on a personal note, I notice a very strange streak of greed seems to run through parishes when they start on (and after they finish) halls built primary for commercial purposes. I really don't like it.
 
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Constantine the Sinner

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A synagogue I attended that did something similar, they announced that they were going to rent the building to a Church that did not have a place to meet. A lot of people were up in arms about it so the president proposed raising the yearly dues for all members by $1000-2000 to make up for the budget shortfalls that come with an ageing community with no new members coming in and the children moving to other cities when they grow up. Needless to say, it is a Unitarian Church on Sundays now.
I don't know how Jewish policy goes, but from an Orthodox perspective I am sure it is better to let a parish end than rent its property for heretical use...besides, if a parish depends completely on the children of its parishioners, it is probably mostly ethnic-based, and frankly that is poison. Meet at houses if you need to, like the ancient Church did.
 
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All4Christ

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The only reason many churches are not 'commercial' enterprises is their tax exempt status (if it walks, looks, and quacks like a duck.............). ;)
Honestly, Orthodox Churches don't typically look anything like a "commercial" enterprise...Orthodox Churches are otherworldly ;)
 
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ArmyMatt

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Honestly, Orthodox Churches don't typically look anything like a "commercial" enterprise...Orthodox Churches are otherworldly ;)

and there are a lot of canons out there to make sure Churches don't become commercial enterprises
 
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Light of the East

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and there are a lot of canons out there to make sure Churches don't become commercial enterprises

Would Bingo qualify as a "commercial enterprise?" To be Catholic is to play Bingo!
 
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ArmyMatt

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Would Bingo qualify as a "commercial enterprise?" To be Catholic is to play Bingo!

well, if something like that is a way for the community to get together and enjoy being with each other, then yes. if it is just some social club or a way to gamble or whatever, then no
 
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Constantine the Sinner

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The only reason many churches are not 'commercial' enterprises is their tax exempt status (if it walks, looks, and quacks like a duck.............). ;)
If twenty people got together and pooled money to do a woodcarving club, it wouldn't be taxed.
 
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buzuxi

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Well I'm Greek Orthodox, and it seems like a lot of parishes are clueless about this, but I am very happy the OCA has their head screwed on straight.

Also, on a personal note, I notice a very strange streak of greed seems to run through parishes when they start on (and after they finish) halls built primary for commercial purposes. I really don't like it.

This can be a serious problem. I attended a large church which had a huge gymnasium and a smaller space used as an auditorium upstairs. I never remembered them renting it out for strictly secular use. Aside from church dances and church seminars and church affiliated societies holding functions. It was common for parishioners to rent it out to use as a reception for their weddings (70's) and baptisms. Most of these spaces have kitchens so if you can't afford the catering hall you can do a budget reception. In some ways I wish this was more common still, it seems many Greeks have done well and everything needs to be extravagant. This has also caused the "keeping up with Jones'" mentality putting off getting married to save more money so their fellow kin won't look down on them for having a reception at their church hall.
 
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seashale76

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This can be a serious problem. I attended a large church which had a huge gymnasium and a smaller space used as an auditorium upstairs. I never remembered them renting it out for strictly secular use. Aside from church dances and church seminars and church affiliated societies holding functions. It was common for parishioners to rent it out to use as a reception for their weddings (70's) and baptisms. Most of these spaces have kitchens so if you can't afford the catering hall you can do a budget reception. In some ways I wish this was more common still, it seems many Greeks have done well and everything needs to be extravagant. This has also caused the "keeping up with Jones'" mentality putting off getting married to save more money so their fellow kin won't look down on them for having a reception at their church hall.
It seems like everybody at my parish tends to have their receptions in the church hall- which is quite nice with a full industrial kitchen. The recent trend seems to be making each reception as different/elaborate/unique from the others as possible, while simultaneously fitting as many people as possible into the space. I've not even recognized it during some receptions the transformation is that complete.
 
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ArmyMatt

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This can be a serious problem. I attended a large church which had a huge gymnasium and a smaller space used as an auditorium upstairs. I never remembered them renting it out for strictly secular use. Aside from church dances and church seminars and church affiliated societies holding functions. It was common for parishioners to rent it out to use as a reception for their weddings (70's) and baptisms. Most of these spaces have kitchens so if you can't afford the catering hall you can do a budget reception. In some ways I wish this was more common still, it seems many Greeks have done well and everything needs to be extravagant. This has also caused the "keeping up with Jones'" mentality putting off getting married to save more money so their fellow kin won't look down on them for having a reception at their church hall.

this was how the Church where my wife and I were married in used their hall. everything was for some kind of Church function
 
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I think that renting out church property for secular/non-church purposes is a bad idea of epic proportions for reasons already stated, and I really do think some gay people search out these kind of situations just so they can sue.
 
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E.C.

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When I was leaving Virginia the Antiochian parish I went to had some guidance from the bishop about it. If I remember correctly, it basically said that only the members of the parish could use the hall space for non-church related things provided they donated a nominal fee. I think the only real use that came out of it was someone's Boy Scout Troop having a meeting there.
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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I've seen a few Orthodox parishes do this, and frankly it is a disastrous idea. A couple got sued not to long ago for refusing to rent their chapel to a gay couple for a wedding; they paid through the nose, and were compelled by a court order to allow it. Once you start a commercial venture, you open yourself up to this. If your parish is planning on renting their parish hall for commercial events, please remind them of the tremendous risks.

I agree wholeheartedly.
It's sickening to have secular events and especially pseudo blasphemous ceremonies taking place in what's supposed to be a house of God.

We have concerts and filth like that in my parish too and I really really dislike it and disapprove of it, not that I have a say.

If I ever get ordained I'll not allow such happenings where I serve.
 
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