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Featured Renowned philosopher signs petition calling on bishops to investigate Pope for heresy

Discussion in 'Current News & Events' started by redleghunter, May 6, 2019.

  1. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    Sounds a bit like Francis ethics are closer to my own denomination's. It sounds vaguely Lutheran, albeit of a modernist sort.

    This is true, inasmuch as we cannot obey perfectly. It is consistent with Luther's teachings. As Philip Melanchthon wrote, "The Law always condemns".

    Because the only mortal sins are those that attack the gifts of faith, hope, and love within the subjectivity of the believer.
     
  2. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    You're reading it within a permeative tradition saturated with Greco-Roman thought. Francis understands the weaknesses of such a tradition and that they aren't really biblical so much as a reflection of dead Roman and Greek philosophers. In many ways, von Harnack was exactly right on this point.
     
  3. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Just to look at the last one. Pope Francis recently stated that Islam was divinely ordained. Here is what he actually agreed to: "The pluralism and the diversity of religions, colour, sex, race and language are willed by God in his wisdom."

    What sort of Christian would say or think that about a non-Christian religion? Is he misunderstood? Or does he misunderstand? Or did someone prepare for him a text that he didn't read before he delivered it? Who knows.

    I am more of an Islamist than many of my peers, considering that I believe Muslims do worship the same God as Christians. But I don't think I could say Islam is salvific in and of it's own, except by accident. Nor that God willed Islam as an expression of diversity. Did the pope say it? Apparently so. What needs to happen is for this to be examined and resolved, with either a correction or an explanation that it is not what it seems to be.

    I have bent over backwards to defend pope Francis for his first three years. Most Catholics have. But for the last three years I just couldn't do it any longer. Is he a raving heretic? I donno. But at this point the question needs to be asked and answered. If he is a heretic he needs to leave. If he is not a heretic then several members of Team Francis need to have the same questions asked and answered about them.

    Here's one of many Team Francis member to look at: Cardinal Tobin: Catechism language ‘very unfortunate’ on homosexuality | Catholic Herald
     
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  4. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    Appreciate the response, this must be a difficult thing to experience over years. This doesn't really sound like heresy to me, what it sounds like is classic liberal theology. It is constantly going around redefining traditional terms, a little here a little there. I guess now at least I understand the nature of the controversy. Thanks for the candor.

    Grace and peace,
    Mark
     
  5. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I believe that this is good, I believe Pope Francis should be investigated because we’re seeing wild claims flying from a man who should be leading and serving Christ’s Church on earth, not liberalism.
     
  6. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Maybe I do not understand Papal Infallibility correctly, but this sounds like a refutation of this doctrine that is held by the Catholic church. So if it is not a true doctrine (by this incident), then what does that say about other things they teach and do? Hopefully this will be a time of re-examination for some.

    May God bless you all today.
     
  7. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    Ok, thanks. I didn’t see the 20 page letter. I’ll find it and look it over.
     
  8. Jonathan Mathews

    Jonathan Mathews Well-Known Member

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    What is the heresy they are accusing him of? I read the link and it does not say.
     
  9. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Actually his comments have been ambiguous at best and post-modern in theme. He has been on occasion ambiguously relative on moral issues.

    Of course Lutheran Satire picked up on this:



    Which Roman Catholics reacted to:

     
  10. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    So Roman Catholics need not be Roman Catholic? What are they to become? Methodists?
     
  11. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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  12. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    The majority of Catholics are already sort of like Methodists in the developed world. They clearly don't accept their own church's teachings on many issues, and for good reason. All Francis is trying to do is making the church's teachings more realistic.
     
  13. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    I understand that liberal theology isn't historical theology at all, it's modernist philosophy in theological language.
     
  14. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    MOD HAT

    This thread has had a clean. Please keep to the topic.

    MOD HAT
     
  15. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    So he is a heretic?
     
  16. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    Who would determine that? He is the Vicar of Christ in their minds, they do owe him a measure of trust if they believe that.
     
  17. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    One could always use a bit more spiritual discipline in life. :p
     
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  18. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    LOL what a great response.
     
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  19. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    Well, I'd simply say that the petition is wrong on at least one account (the issue of the remarried receiving Communion), because in the history of the Catholic Church, the remarried were able to Commune, and thus, the full participation of those remarried after divorce can not be heretical, as indicated in the historical account below:

    "In the Christian Empire under Constantine, Theodosius, Justinian and others, laws defined the various legal grounds and conditions on which divorce and remarriage were permissible. It is sufficient to say that they were relatively lenient. However, no Father of the Church ever denounced these imperial laws as contrary to Christianity. St. Epiphanius of Cyprus (d403) says, 'He who cannot keep continence after the death of his first wife, or who has separated from his wife for a valid motive, as fornication, adultery, or another misdeed, if he takes another wife, or if the wife takes another husband, the divine word does not condemn him nor exclude him from the Church or the life; but she tolerates it rather on account of his weakness' (Against Heresies)." -- [Quoted from "Marriage: an Orthodox Perspective"; John Meyendorff
    St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press, 1975; XII. Divorce (p.54)]
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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  20. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Actually what you presented in your previous post is more insidious with regards to liberal theology. As in the constant chipping away of orthodox beliefs. Which is the spirit of anti-Christ. I found your post insightful and informative.
     
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