Remembering the Crucifixion and Resurrection on Passover

[Root of Jesse]

It's pretty simple to recognize Yeshua's atonement on Passover and resurrection on Sunday.
Sorry, the whole first full moon after equinox in combination with Easter (Aster) is just a cheap co-opt of a pagan holiday. That's shameful.

As is your argument.

 

[Root of Jesse]

It's a Friday for Passover. Never a Monday.

Baloney. Scripture tells us that in some years, Passover falls on a Sabbath.

 

[MennoSota]

Baloney. Scripture tells us that in some years, Passover falls on a Sabbath.

It always encompasses the Sabbath.

 

[Root of Jesse]

It always encompasses the Sabbath.

So why, in the Gospel of John, does it say "Now since it was preparation day, in order that the bodies might not remain on the cross on the sabbath, for the sabbath day of that week was a solemn one, the Jews asked Pilate that their legs be broken and they be taken down.?
Secondly, encompasses and falls on are two different concepts.

 

[MennoSota]

So why, in the Gospel of John, does it say "Now since it was preparation day, in order that the bodies might not remain on the cross on the sabbath, for the sabbath day of that week was a solemn one, the Jews asked Pilate that their legs be broken and they be taken down.?
Secondly, encompasses and falls on are two different concepts.

The Sabbath starts on Friday evening and runs through Saturday evening. Jewish understanding of the start and end of a day is different than our modern understanding.
Every once-in-awhile, there was an extra day of Sabbath at Passover, which meant the Sabbath started on Thursday evening and ran to Saturday evening.

 

[Root of Jesse]

The Sabbath starts on Friday evening and runs through Saturday evening. Jewish understanding of the start and end of a day is different than our modern understanding.
Every once-in-awhile, there was an extra day of Sabbath at Passover, which meant the Sabbath started on Thursday evening and ran to Saturday evening.

Sort of a 'leap-Sabbath'? Anyway, the Gospels proclaim what they proclaim, and the Catholic Church celebrates the resurrection of Jesus every day.

 

[MennoSota]

Sort of a 'leap-Sabbath'? Anyway, the Gospels proclaim what they proclaim, and the Catholic Church celebrates the resurrection of Jesus every day.

We all ought to remember Yeshua's atonement everyday. However, in practice, most RC members attend on Christmas and Easter while neglecting God the other 50 weeks of the year. How do I know? I drive by the church every Sunday and see the empty parking lot, except on those two Sundays.

 

[Root of Jesse]

We all ought to remember Yeshua's atonement everyday. However, in practice, most RC members attend on Christmas and Easter while neglecting God the other 50 weeks of the year. How do I know? I drive by the church every Sunday and see the empty parking lot, except on those two Sundays.

I don't think you would know "most" Catholics well enough to know. It's true that lots of Catholics only attend on Easter and Christmas, I call them "CEO's", but most attend most weeks. Those I hang around go most days. I've missed one Sunday in 10 years, and the pews are full in my parish. Maybe you drive by when there's no 'services' going on. It is very strange how people judge Catholics by how unCatholic some members are. Most organizations, about 10-20% of the group are active, while the rest are members in name only. With Catholics it's about the same, though only about 7% of Catholics in this country contribute financially and spiritually to the Church.

 

[MennoSota]

I don't think you would know "most" Catholics well enough to know. It's true that lots of Catholics only attend on Easter and Christmas, I call them "CEO's", but most attend most weeks. Those I hang around go most days. I've missed one Sunday in 10 years, and the pews are full in my parish. Maybe you drive by when there's no 'services' going on. It is very strange how people judge Catholics by how unCatholic some members are. Most organizations, about 10-20% of the group are active, while the rest are members in name only. With Catholics it's about the same, though only about 7% of Catholics in this country contribute financially and spiritually to the Church.

I live in a city dominated by Catholics in name only. Hard drinking, cursing like sailors and living like pagans. Perhaps one in fifteen go to church other than the two days mentioned. Most brag about how the finished confirmation and never looked back. They are doing the same thing with their kids...imagining their salvation is found in following the rules of the church. It's sad.

 

[The Lone Ranger]

She is, but what has that to do with Pascha?

Exactly. It shouldn't have anything to do with Yeshua at all. He Passed into the next life at Passover, not ishtar. HE passed during one of HIS appointed times, that had been dictated to the people by Moses (of whom was present during HIS transfiguration Matthew 17, 2 Peter 1:16-18). Matthew 5:17. The Church is supposed to celebrate HIS resurrection during The Feast of First Fruits, which is three days after Passover. HE passed over into the afterlife, and was resurrected three days later. HE picked an appointed time written about in The Torah (First Testament). HE became the Passover Lamb.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Exactly. It shouldn't have anything to do with Yeshua at all. He Passed into the next life at Passover, not ishtar. HE passed during one of HIS appointed times, that had been dictated to the people by Moses (of whom was present during HIS transfiguration Matthew 17, 2 Peter 1:16-18). Matthew 5:17. The Church is supposed to celebrate HIS resurrection during The Feast of First Fruits, which is three days after Passover. HE passed over into the afterlife, and was resurrected three days later. HE picked an appointed time written about in The Torah (First Testament). HE became the Passover Lamb.

I don't particularly care when we celebrate Easter, because I celebrate it nearly every day at Holy Mass.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I live in a city dominated by Catholics in name only. Hard drinking, cursing like sailors and living like pagans. Perhaps one in fifteen go to church other than the two days mentioned. Most brag about how the finished confirmation and never looked back. They are doing the same thing with their kids...imagining their salvation is found in following the rules of the church. It's sad.

So you criticize the Catholic Church because of people who don't 'act Catholic'. I teach Confirmation, and urge my kids to not let their conversion end there. I tell them that Christianity entails life-long study. If they think they know the rules of the Church, they're probably mistaken...They were poorly catechized themselves, as many ex-Catholics here on CF. That is the fault of the Church, trying to make it easier, they drove folks away, rather than following Christ's way, and challenging them. Well, I challenge Catholics on a frequent basis. I evangelize Catholics to bring them back to the faith.

 

[Hieronymus]

She is, but what has that to do with Pascha?

We would all like to know that, sir...

 

[Root of Jesse]

We would all like to know that, sir...

Nothing, in other words.

 

[MennoSota]

So you criticize the Catholic Church because of people who don't 'act Catholic'. I teach Confirmation, and urge my kids to not let their conversion end there. I tell them that Christianity entails life-long study. If they think they know the rules of the Church, they're probably mistaken...They were poorly catechized themselves, as many ex-Catholics here on CF. That is the fault of the Church, trying to make it easier, they drove folks away, rather than following Christ's way, and challenging them. Well, I challenge Catholics on a frequent basis. I evangelize Catholics to bring them back to the faith.

I call out the false teaching of the RC that their baptism and catechism saves people. It doesn't, just like being dunked in a lake for baptism doesn't save Baptists.
Salvation comes by God's work and His alone.
What I observe is a slew of RC folks who trust their eternity to the ceremonies of the RC and not to the atonement of God the Son on their behalf. It's sad to see the false assurance in them as they live like pagans.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I call out the false teaching of the RC that their baptism and catechism saves people. It doesn't, just like being dunked in a lake for baptism doesn't save Baptists.

Other than 1 Peter 3:21 showing baptism saves, and Col 2:11-12 showing that baptism replaces circumcision (normally performed on infants). The Sacraments do what they intend to do. So, since Baptists don't think their baptism saves them, it doesn't.

Salvation comes by God's work and His alone.

All the Sacraments invoke the Holy Spirit, so God's work is being done.

What I observe is a slew of RC folks who trust their eternity to the ceremonies of the RC and not to the atonement of God the Son on their behalf. It's sad to see the false assurance in them as they live like pagans.

I get that. I see lots of people who show up only to have an excuse for a party, and are even willing to go through months of instruction, then ignore it once the party starts. But that's their perogative-God will assess them at their judgement.

 

[MennoSota]

Other than 1 Peter 3:21 showing baptism saves, and Col 2:11-12 showing that baptism replaces circumcision (normally performed on infants). The Sacraments do what they intend to do. So, since Baptists don't think their baptism saves them, it doesn't.
All the Sacraments invoke the Holy Spirit, so God's work is being done.
I get that. I see lots of people who show up only to have an excuse for a party, and are even willing to go through months of instruction, then ignore it once the party starts. But that's their perogative-God will assess them at their judgement.

Re-read 1 Peter 3:21 because the last half of the verse presents that baptism is just a symbol of what already was done by the Holy Spirit in opening our heart to the atoning work of Yeshua (v22).
In short, your verse rejects your premise.
As for Colossians 2, you realize that the people Paul was writing to were adults, not infants. Nothing in the entire context of the passage points to infant baptism. Nothing! You are making up an interpretation and trying to force the Scriptures to fit your wishes. Shame on you.
Next, the sacraments don't invoke anything. They are not magical charms. On the contrary, the Holy Spirit invokes the action of raising people, who are dead in their sins, to new life in Christ. The ceremonies can only express an act that God has done previous to the ceremony. The ceremonies are, in and of themselves, impotent.
God assesses them as being dead in their sins because He never made them alive in Christ. The RC compounds the issue by telling them a false narrative and allowing them to have false hope in the ceremonies as means of salvation when in fact they are still dead in their sins. It's a lie that falsely assures people who will be shocked when they spend eternity in hell. The RC needs to stop lying to its parishioners.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Re-read 1 Peter 3:21 because the last half of the verse presents that baptism is just a symbol of what already was done by the Holy Spirit in opening our heart to the atoning work of Yeshua (v22).
In short, your verse rejects your premise.

Except that that is exactly why Baptism saves you...

As for Colossians 2, you realize that the people Paul was writing to were adults, not infants. Nothing in the entire context of the passage points to infant baptism. Nothing! You are making up an interpretation and trying to force the Scriptures to fit your wishes. Shame on you.

Where does it say they were adults. It was the Church at Colossae, which presumably contained men, women and children. But since baptism is the new circumcision, which usually happened to infants, it stands.

Next, the sacraments don't invoke anything. They are not magical charms. On the contrary, the Holy Spirit invokes the action of raising people, who are dead in their sins, to new life in Christ. The ceremonies can only express an act that God has done previous to the ceremony. The ceremonies are, in and of themselves, impotent.

You need to study the rites. In every sacrament, the priest invokes the Holy Spirit to do His work.

God assesses them as being dead in their sins because He never made them alive in Christ. The RC compounds the issue by telling them a false narrative and allowing them to have false hope in the ceremonies as means of salvation when in fact they are still dead in their sins. It's a lie that falsely assures people who will be shocked when they spend eternity in hell. The RC needs to stop lying to its parishioners.

It's a lie to tell people that once they're saved, they're always saved. Those OSAS folks need to stop lying to their parishioners.

 

[buzuxi02]

Well I actually asked this question on TAW forum as to if and why Sola scripturalists commemorate feast days based on the gregorian paschalion and menaion. Really illogical in my opinion. It was the wasps that coined the term "easter" not the Romans. The romans like the rest of the planet call it pascha/pasqua/pesach etc.
The first full moon after the spring equinox is Nisan 14, but everyone uses algorithmic tables applied to the specific calendars they use. These calendars have fixed dates for the equinox not actual astronomical observances. Both the Julian calendar and Hebrew calendar are slightly longer than the actual solar year which is one reason why their pascha usually occur after the gregorian reckoning by as much as 4-5 weeks. Both the Orthodox christian holy week and Hebrew pesach would coincide most of the time if both used an identical calendar as the mathematical tables are virtually the same, both using the metonic cycle for their algorithmn

 

[buzuxi02]

It's not tough to know Yeshua was killed on Passover. It's pretty easy to follow this time of remembrance.
There's no sense in following the first full moon after the equinox as a means of remembrance...unless you're doing it for political reasons to co-opt a pagan holiday.
The week after Passover idea of the OC also makes little sense...unless you're just naturally anti-Semitic, which both the RC and OC traditionally have been.

If it makes you feel any better next year passover begins on the evening of April 10 (Monday) and ends on the 18th. Both the western christians along with the Orthodox christian will be celebrating Pascha on April 16 sunday. So for next year your advice has been heeded, unless you really are advocating for a revival of the quartodeciman method which would place Easter on the third day of passover regardless of the day of the week meaning Wednesday for 2017