Religious Experiences in Altered States

[Tiburon]

There are different types of altered mental states and different ways of reaching those states. Are some religious experiences more authentic than others simply because the mental states differ?

- The prophets of Baal in the Bible apparently cut themselves to enter an altered state.
- American Indians had sweat lodges and so forth.
- European witches used flying ointment.
- Sufis use repetitive dancing and music.
- Eastern Orthodox monks use hesychasm.
- Apparently psilocybin mushrooms appear in some early Christian religious art.
- Near-death-experiences might be classified as altered mental states by skeptics.
- Modern people sometimes use psychedelics to enlighten themselves.
- People practice meditation to enter altered states (among other things).
- Some religious innovators might be considered mentally ill by psychiatrists.
- In Christianity there are fasts and vigils.
- There is the mysterious soma plant.
- ... lots of examples

Your thoughts?

What makes a religious experiences more authentic?

 

[cloudyday2]

What makes a religious experiences more authentic?

For a religious experience to be authentic there must be spiritual entity attempting to influence a person through some mechanism such as a dream or a synchronicity or hallucination or a miracle. That is my definition FWIW

 

[Tiburon]

For a religious experience to be authentic there must be spiritual entity attempting to influence a person through some mechanism such as a dream or a synchronicity or hallucination or a miracle. That is my definition FWIW

It seems to me that we have no way of knowing this. We can only go by how it is perceived by the experiencer.

 

[zippy2006]

For a religious experience to be authentic there must be spiritual entity attempting to influence a person through some mechanism such as a dream or a synchronicity or hallucination or a miracle. That is my definition FWIW

The problem I see with this is that the vast majority of religious experiences are thought to take place between the human being and God, and I would be uncomfortable viewing God as a "spiritual entity attempting to influence..." Angels and demons do that with a specific kind of intentionality, but with God it is different. It's certainly possible for God to do that, but things like The Cloud of Unknowing or The Interior Castle are not captured by such a notion (nor is something like Buddhist meditation).

 

[Tolworth John]

We don't know. That doesn't necessitate any god. If you want to say it's god, you can, but that god of the gaps is going to get smaller and smaller every time we learn more.

Sorry but you are saying science will learn what caused nothing to become something.
I am talking about an absence of all energy, all matter, of all scientific, moral, and philosophical laws.
And with a faith that is utterly fantastic say science will learn what caused in that absence of everything, something to exist.

I have admiration for anyone who can believe in the unreasonable, it is not something I can do.
For me I believe that something that is outside of time, and space made these, as well as energy, matter, and the laws that govern them, that is what is ' supernateral' because it is outside of the universe we live in and our science that is dependant on what is this universe cannot investigate it.

We are dependant on it revealing it's self to us.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

The problem I see with this is that the vast majority of religious experiences are thought to take place between the human being and God, and I would be uncomfortable viewing God as a "spiritual entity attempting to influence..." Angels and demons do that with a specific kind of intentionality, but with God it is different. It's certainly possible for God to do that, but things like The Cloud of Unknowing or The Interior Castle are not captured by such a notion (nor is something like Buddhist meditation).

Will we consider Maslow's Peak experience as a religious experience?

 

[zippy2006]

Will we consider Maslow's Peak experience as a religious experience?

I don't know enough about Maslow's system to opine. I only know of his hierarchy of needs, not the specific concept of his peak experience.

 

[cloudyday2]

The problem I see with this is that the vast majority of religious experiences are thought to take place between the human being and God, and I would be uncomfortable viewing God as a "spiritual entity attempting to influence..." Angels and demons do that with a specific kind of intentionality, but with God it is different. It's certainly possible for God to do that, but things like The Cloud of Unknowing or The Interior Castle are not captured by such a notion (nor is something like Buddhist meditation).

In my experience, God is a person, and he apparently cares about me and sometimes tries to help me as needed. To me that fits my definition. ???

 

[zippy2006]

In my experience, God is a person, and he apparently cares about me and sometimes tries to help me as needed. To me that fits my definition. ???

Sure, I see what you mean.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Abraham Maslow described peak experiences as "rare, exciting, oceanic, deeply moving, exhilarating, elevating experiences that generate an advanced form of perceiving reality, and are even mystic and magical in their effect upon the experimenter."

 

[zippy2006]

Abraham Maslow described peak experiences as "rare, exciting, oceanic, deeply moving, exhilarating, elevating experiences that generate an advanced form of perceiving reality, and are even mystic and magical in their effect upon the experimenter."

That sounds like what is generally understood to be a religious experience. William James' The Varieties of Religious Experience is still one of the best works on the topic.