Religion v Reason

[Archaeopteryx]

The demon is forced to respond to the finger of God, meaning God's presence, to do a pointed work, a work of power against an entrenched enemy. The person must want deliverance and open themselves to it.

Could it be that the person, who believes that they are possessed, is responding in the way they believe someone who is possessed would respond?

 

[The Cadet]

Necromancy is disorder and there are accounts of people tormented with the consequences of this. You can web search them or youtube search them, look for Ouija Board...

Welp, that's about as far down this rabbit hole as I'm willing to go. Pentecostals, man.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Could it be that the person, who believes that they are possessed, is responding in the way they believe someone who is possessed would respond?

They would have to learn the misconcepts from somewhere. No they don't have to do anything. For me, nothing happened in deliverance, for others there are involuntary actions. And they speak and express from another personality, but that is stopped, along with humiliation.

 

[Loudmouth]

Demons are extremely intelligent and don't want us to gain a footing of knowing about them.

Why? Because you say so?

 

[Loudmouth]

The people come for prayer with discerned named problems. The demons respond to Jesus' name. The problems are gone after deliverance. There is a theology from history it conforms with.

How do you determine that any of those things happen?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

They would have to learn the misconcepts from somewhere. No they don't have to do anything. For me, nothing happened in deliverance, for others there are involuntary actions. And they speak and express from another personality, but that is stopped, along with humiliation.

Couldn't an individual who strongly believes that they are possessed behave as if they were, based on what they believe "possession" to be like?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Can a person have both?

LOL, no.

Reason is indiscriminate. Using reason alone it is impossible to accept the gospels while rejecting the belief in alien abductions. Religious beliefs have to override reason for the resurrection to seem plausible while denying the claims that aliens have visited earth.

And it's absurd to believe that aliens have visited earth.

 

[FireDragon76]

Sure, "Reason" means more than simply thinking about it before coming to a decision. But on the other hand, "Reason" doesn't necessarily mean what it did during the "Age of Reason" when it was advocated as a systematic way to figure out the truth of all things.

Good point. "Reason", as often used by secular humanists in their understanding, is really another kind of narrative. Anybody who is familiar with postmodernism will know the limitations implied by that.

 

[FireDragon76]

LOL, no.

Reason is indiscriminate. Using reason alone it is impossible to accept the gospels while rejecting the belief in alien abductions. Religious beliefs have to override reason for the resurrection to seem plausible while denying the claims that aliens have visited earth.

You assume that believing in Jesus' resurrection and belief in alien abductions are mutually exclusive by definition. They are not. I see no reason why, for the sake of argument, both could not be true. Your mistake is reducing one phenomenon to the other, perhaps borrowing from certain principles of medieval scholastic philosophy as your rationale . But that's just a principle (the principle of parsimony), not absolute truth.

 

[Radagast]

With that being said, I do feel that there are certain barriers on specific topics that sometimes make it difficult for reason and religion to go together on certain topics.

I disagree, obviously.

Religion is a heavily faith based institution that often involves large amounts of dogma, and in many cases requires the acceptance of certain things without tangible evidence.

Again, I disagree, when "faith" is interpreted the way you mean it.

And again, that's not meant as an insult, that's just how it is.

Really?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

You assume that believing in Jesus' resurrection and belief in alien abductions are mutually exclusive by definition. They are not. I see no reason why, for the sake of argument, both could not be true. Your mistake is reducing one phenomenon to the other, perhaps borrowing from certain principles of medieval scholastic philosophy as your rationale . But that's just a principle (the principle of parsimony), not absolute truth.

So did Jesus die for the aliens' sins as well?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I disagree, obviously.

Again, I disagree, when "faith" is interpreted the way you mean it.

Really?

I said that religion often involves dogmatic rules and often requires belief in things without tangible evidence...I don't think I'm speaking out of line in saying so.

Catholicism (the most popular religion in the world) is riddled with dogmatic rules.

Many of the protestant faiths do require belief in things for which there is no tangible evidence. Virgin births, global floods, resurrections, walking on water, turning water into wine, etc... Those are things which require faith without tangible evidence. I'm not trying to insult anyone by saying that, just merely stating a fact. There's no scientific evidence for any of those things happening (or even being possible). If someone wants to have faith in those things, that's 100% fine, I'd fight to protect their right to believe that, however, that doesn't change the fact that their belief in those things lack scientific backing.

 

[FireDragon76]

So did Jesus die for the aliens' sins as well?

I don't know. Being more Lutheran-minded, it's not a question I need to speculate about: all I know is that Jesus died for my sins.

I guess when we find aliens we can communicate and interact with in a meaningful way, then it will become much more relevant..

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I don't know. Being more Lutheran-minded, it's not a question I need to speculate about: all I know is that Jesus died for my sins.

I guess when we find aliens we can communicate and interact with in a meaningful way, then it will become much more relevant..

But if your duty as a Christian is to preach the gospel, shouldn't you be seeking aliens so that you might proselytize them?

I think you should reach out to alien abductees and pick their brains (no pun intended) to see what you can do to get yourself abducted. Once inside the ship, you let them have it with your best Chick tract and they won't know what hit 'em.

 

[FireDragon76]

But if your duty as a Christian is to preach the gospel, shouldn't you be seeking aliens so that you might proselytize them?

I'm not called and ordained as a pastor, so no, it's not my duty to preach the Gospel, much less preach it to aliens.

Proselytism is a dirty word as far as I'm concerned. Mainline protestants aren't known for trying to sell Jesus like somebody sells cleaning supplies door-to-door. We think its bad theology and not such a great practice.

I think you should reach out to alien abductees and pick their brains (no pun intended) to see what you can do to get yourself abducted. Once inside the ship, you let them have it with your best Chick tract and they won't know what hit 'em.

I think I'd be too busy being probed to be handing out tracts. As I said, we'ld have to have meaningful dialogue with the aliens to establish our basic assumptions so that we could understand each other. Most alien abduction accounts don't seem to even get that far.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I'm not called and ordained as a pastor, so no, it's not my duty to preach the Gospel, much less preach it to aliens.

Proselytism is a dirty word as far as I'm concerned. Mainline protestants aren't known for trying to sell Jesus like somebody sells cleaning supplies door-to-door. We think its bad theology and not such a great practice.

So you don't proselytize your children?

I think I'd be too busy being probed to be handing out tracts. As I said, we'ld have to have meaningful dialogue with the aliens to establish our basic assumptions so that we could understand each other. Most alien abduction accounts don't seem to even get that far.

Sounds like a deficiency in faith that the Lord's will would be done.

 

[Nihilist Virus's Mom]

LOL, no.

Reason is indiscriminate. Using reason alone it is impossible to accept the gospels while rejecting the belief in alien abductions. Religious beliefs have to override reason for the resurrection to seem plausible while denying the claims that aliens have visited earth.

And it's absurd to believe that aliens have visited earth.

Christians, may I ask you to please pray for salvation for my son, Nihilist Virus (he knows I frequently ask people to pray for him, and he is ok with it). Thank you very much!

 

[FireDragon76]

So you don't proselytize your children?

I don't have kids. Raising your kids in a particular religion is not "proselytism" as far as I'm concerned. I certainly don't believe it's somebody else's right to raise them, besides the parents.

 

[The Cadet]

Christians, may I ask you to please pray for salvation for my son, Nihilist Virus (he knows I frequently ask people to pray for him, and he is ok with it). Thank you very much!

Not sure if serious.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Not sure if serious.

She's serious. I'm just not sure if you're serious about your views on Islam.