RELIGION: Man's Attempt to Become Like God

[timothyu]

I'll bet that you think Jesus was a hypocrite

How so?

 

[RobertPate]

How so?

Read what Jesus said to the Pharisees in the 23rd chapter of Matthew. You seem to think that it's a sin to hate your enemies.

 

[timothyu]

You seem to think that it's a sin to hate your enemies.

He wasn't hating his enemies. He was feeling sorry for them for the things they do because they have not learned to put Gods will ahead of their own.

 

[RobertPate]

He wasn't hating his enemies. He was feeling sorry for them for the things they do because they have not learned to put Gods will ahead of their own.

Sorry for them? Where do you get that? He called them sons of hell, Matthew 23:15.

 

[timothyu]

anyone who puts their will ahead of Gods could be called a son of hell, favouring the ways of the Adversary.

'Woe is' means poor them which would indicate He was sorry for their behaviour

 

[Saint Steven]

Do you use the verse from the ESV because it fits your belief.

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,

That version best fits what I am hoping to communicate.
Does that seem underhanded to you? - LOL
You did not reveal the translation in your Bible quotation.
How come?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Does everyone have that opportunity?

There are still unreached people groups in the world.
Maybe there should be a part in God's plan that saves them too.
Oh wait, there is...

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

 

[d taylor]

That version best fits what I am hoping to communicate.
Does that seem underhanded to you? - LOL
You did not reveal the translation in your Bible quotation.
How come?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Does everyone have that opportunity?

There are still unreached people groups in the world.
Maybe there should be a part in God's plan that saves them too.
Oh wait, there is...

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

But the question is, is your beliefs lining up with The Bible. Take the verse 2:11 you used, how does the other areas of The Bible line up with the way verse 2:11 is used in your translation. Does other areas of The Bible agree with 2:11 the way it is translated in the EVS.

 

[Hammster]

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people

The context of that verse doesn’t mean every person on earth. The First 10 verses show various totes of people. Old and young men, old and young women, bond-slaves and masters. So “all”, in context, means all types.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The context of that verse doesn’t mean every person on earth. The First 10 verses show various totes of people. Old and young men, old and young women, bond-slaves and masters. So “all”, in context, means all types.

Agreed. Taken out of its context, this is one of the linchpins for universal salvation. The Bible is quite explicit that only a very tiny minority of humanity will be saved.

 

[Der Alte]

...

That version best fits what I am hoping to communicate.
Does that seem underhanded to you? - LOL
You did not reveal the translation in your Bible quotation.
How come?
Saint Steven said: ↑
Does everyone have that opportunity?
There are still unreached people groups in the world.
Maybe there should be a part in God's plan that saves them too.
Oh wait, there is...

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people

In this same letter Paul wrote.

Titus 3:10-11
(10) Have nothing to do with a divisive person after you have warned him once or twice.
(11) For you know that a person like this is corrupt and keeps on sinning, being self-condemned.​

How can someone be self-condemned if everyone is saved?
Paul also wrote,

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that
the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: [no wrongdoer] neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, [no wrongdoer] hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.​

Twenty two categories of unrighteous people who have no inheritance in the kingdom of God.1. adulterers, 2. covetous, 3. drunkenness, 4. effeminate, 5. emulations, 6. envious, 7. extortion 8. fornication, 9. hatred, 10. heresies, 11. homosexuals, 12. idolators, 13. lasciviousness, 14. murder, 15. reveling, 16. revilers 17. sedition, 18. strife, 19. thieves, 20. uncleanness 21. witchcraft. 22. Wrath
Vss cited: 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:5, 1 Corinthians 3:17

 

[Saint Steven]

But the question is, is your beliefs lining up with The Bible. Take the verse 2:11 you used, how does the other areas of The Bible line up with the way verse 2:11 is used in your translation. Does other areas of The Bible agree with 2:11 the way it is translated in the EVS.

That's a good question actually. Thanks.

All three doctrines of the final judgment are biblical.
I am referring to:
1) Damnationism (Infernalism) the forever burning hell
2) Annihilationism (the condemned are completely destroyed)
3) Christian Universalism (Ultimate Redemption, Universal restoration, UR)

So to answer your question about what lines up with the whole Bible?
None of the doctrines of the final judgment agree with each other.
And none of them agree with the whole Bible.
Damnationists and Annihilationists like to pretend their doctrine does, but alas...

Does that make sense?
It doesn't bother me that none of the doctrines agree,
nor that none of them is compatible with the others.
But I'm guessing that bothers you. How come?

The biggest issue for me is what each one says about the character of God.
From that perspective, Christian Universalism shines brightest. IMHO

Saint Steven said: ↑
That version best fits what I am hoping to communicate.
Does that seem underhanded to you? - LOL
You did not reveal the translation in your Bible quotation.
How come?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Does everyone have that opportunity?

There are still unreached people groups in the world.
Maybe there should be a part in God's plan that saves them too.
Oh wait, there is...

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

 

[Saint Steven]

But the question is, is your beliefs lining up with The Bible.

Have you seen this amazingly unbiased presentation about the three Christian views of hell?

 

[Saint Steven]

The context of that verse doesn’t mean every person on earth. The First 10 verses show various totes of people. Old and young men, old and young women, bond-slaves and masters. So “all”, in context, means all types.

If I found another verse that said "all", would that help my case?
(I'm pretty sure I could)

Saint Steven said: ↑
Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people

 

[Hammster]

If I found another verse that said "all", would that help my case?
(I'm pretty sure I could)

Saint Steven said: ↑
Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people

That’s the same verse.

 

[RobertPate]

If I found another verse that said "all", would that help my case?
(I'm pretty sure I could)

Saint Steven said: ↑
Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people

Titus 2:11 is sufficient. Some people need 20 scriptures or they cant believe it. I only need one.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Titus 2:11 is sufficient. Some people need 20 scriptures or they cand believe it. I only need one.

Some folks need two:

Judas went out and hanged himself.
Go and do thou likewise.

A verse out of context is a pretext for error.

 

[RobertPate]

Some folks need two:

Judas went out and hanged himself.
Go and do thou likewise.

A verse out of context is a pretext for error.

There is plenty of that going on.

 

[Hammster]

Titus 2:11 is sufficient. Some people need 20 scriptures or they cant believe it. I only need one.

It’s not in context, as I showed. You can’t just treat scripture like a fortune cookie.

 

[Saint Steven]

That’s the same verse.

I was providing some context for my reply. - LOL
Here's the additional verses you requested. (more where these came from)

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Romans 3:24 NIV
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16 NIV
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

James 2:13 NIV
... Mercy triumphs over judgment.

 

[Hammster]

I was providing some context for my reply. - LOL
Here's the additional verses you requested. (more where these came from)

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Romans 3:24 NIV
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16 NIV
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

James 2:13 NIV
... Mercy triumphs over judgment.

There’s a theme here. Everyone one of your references is used without context. So of course you can make them say what you want.