Religion and Indigenous Identity

[Eva Quispe]

I’m 19 and I grew up attending church/youth group.

After rejecting the church, I was introduced to sacred ceremonies, honoring this world and life. It seemed to be missing from my life until then..

I had the revelation that practicing Christianity or being in the Catholic Church is an insult to my indigenous ancestors. The Churches were built over wakas, our sacred places.. it’s insulting and sad.

The Virgin of Guadalupe is based on the idea of the Aztec goddess Tonantzin. It is a story to indoctrinate us.

I find strength in ancestral prayer, but something is still missing. In my home country in Latin America, many indigenous people embrace Catholicism and indigenous prayer/practices. Others don’t.

Yet I cried when I heard the Saint name Tata Santiago. Tata means sir/father in my indigenous language. He is a saint in MY home country. I cried until I learned he was a Spaniard.

I would love to hear from people of all racial backgrounds

 

[solid_core]

I’m 19 and considered myself Christian until 15. I grew up attending church/youth group and reading The Bible on my own time.

At fifteen, I began reading annotating The Bible and was disturbed that people interpreted the stories literally, rejecting the Big Bang Theory, evolution, and timeline of the universe. Also rejecting gay marriage for Biblical reasons. I couldn’t relate to The Bible, and my mother later found out I didn’t believe in God.

I listen to podcasts that often reference Judeo-Christian values and it’s history in the west. Although I am not Christian, I find it interesting and enjoy conversations on how religion shaped modern society and culture.

After rejecting the church, I found indigenous prayer. My boyfriend is Northern American Indian and introduced me to the inipi. It’s a sacred ceremony, honoring the Great Spirit, or in my culture Pachamama, etc. It seemed to be missing from my life until then.. (My mother is white and my father is Native American of Latin America.) I had awkward mixed-race moments with both sides of the family, never being white enough or native enough. Prayer also influences this.

I had the revelation that practicing Christianity or being in the Catholic Church is an insult to my indigenous ancestors. Colonizers destroyed our way of life. Our religion and ceremonies were banned; our language was illegal; people who want a simple life in the country are called peasants to this day. My grandfather knows our indigenous language but didn’t teach my father or I because we would make better Americans without it... a second wave of colonization in my family history.

I’m learning our language and I continue to make offerings to Pachamama. No colonizer can erase that part of me now. I find strength in ancestral prayer, but something is still missing. In my home country in South America, many indigenous people embrace Catholicism and indigenous prayer/practices. Others don’t because this religion caused all the suffering our ancestors endured. The Churches were built over wakas, our sacred places.. it’s insulting and sad.

I don’t know why I want to be apart of the Catholic Church or Christianity — I don’t believe in the miracles of Jesus. And I strongly disagree with the 10 commandments saying you cannot honor anything else, ie. the earth, the sun, the moon. The Virgin of Guadalupe is based on the idea of the Aztec goddess Tonantzin. It is a story to indoctrinate us. And if American Christians saw indigenous Christians in my grandfather’s country, I think people would call them fake Christians for honoring Jesus and Pachamama.

This is a polarizing topic in the indigenous community. Some of my friends did a retreat on the Navajo reservation, called Natives for Jesus. Another friend of our was upset they’re practicing Christianity. And a completely different (indigenous) friend group all reject Christianity — I do too.

Yet I cried when I heard the Saint name Tata Santiago. Tata means sir/father in my indigenous language. He is a saint in MY home country. I cried until I learned he was a Spaniard.

Since I live in a predominately Hispanic community, a Catholic priest may better understand my internal struggle. Any advice would be appreciated.

I would love to hear from people of all racial backgrounds

I think you are concentrating on your ethnical and cultural background more than on what is truth.

The fact that your country received something from Spaniards who did not behave very gently does not make it invalid. If Spaniards brought the knowledge of mathematics or of writing/reading, it does not mean you must reject such skills, just because your ancestors did not have them before the colonization. The same with the truths of Christianity.

Also, there are more possibilities than just catholicism, in the Christianity.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Eastern Orthodoxy reached the Alaskan Natives the correct way :

.

 

[Tone]

The Virgin of Guadalupe is based on the idea of the Aztec goddess Tonantzin. It is a story to indoctrinate us

If only RCs would see this...

"Jesus" is Latin, so...

His Hebrew Name is Yahshua (Yahweh's Salvation)

Anyways, I can relate to a lot of what you are saying, though it was Spanish my people didn't teach me, thinking that would help assimilation...go figure...Spanish would be really nice in the area I live.

Most of what I picked up was in prison...some Nahuatl too.


We are the violent and tumultuous meeting between the Old and the New...and in Messiah we are newer creatures still!

 

[dzheremi]

There are indigenous churches and non-indigenous churches. Roman Catholicism is certainly indigenous to parts of Europe, but not really anywhere else. It took a vision of Theotokos occuring to an indigenous man (Juan Diego) to really establish Catholicism as part of the indigenous Mexican identity. I think that is significant.

Eastern Orthodoxy among the natives of Alaska is a good example, as brought up by our friend Jude1:3Contendforthefaith. Similar points could be made about Orthodoxy growing among the native people of Bolivia and Guatemala in recent years, though I don't think the priests have learned the indigenous languages yet (just Spanish; hopefully as the Orthodox Church grows in those places, they will raise up indigenous priests and bishops). Similar things are also happening in Africa, in places where Christianity originally came with colonizers. The Greek Orthodox patriarchate of Alexandria (Greek/Eastern Orthodox in Egypt) now has many times more people belonging to it outside of Egypt elsewhere in Africa (Uganda, CAF, etc.) than inside of it, and it has been that way for a while. The Coptic Orthodox Church (indigenous Egyptian Orthodox) has also gained many people in other parts of Africa, in South America, and in other places it has gone through the migration of its own people (not through colonialism; the Church in Bolivia, for instance, started when one priest was told that there was a Coptic family in the country, and then after they moved away, he stayed in the country because he had met and befriended so many local people who went to him for spiritual guidance and comfort). Not every Church or every kind of Christianity is like Roman Catholicism or Protestantism in this way.

 

[Tone]

Not every Church or every kind of Christianity is like Roman Catholicism or Protestantism in this way

Correct, there is also the Hebrew Roots Movement, which finds its base in neither Roman Catholicism or Protestantism, but all the way back...further still.

 

[dzheremi]

Correct, there is also the Hebrew Roots Movement, which finds its base in neither Roman Catholicism or Protestantism, but all the way back...further still.

This thread is certainly not the place to discuss it, but just to be clear, I am in no way referring to such groups in my post. I specified the Orthodox Church because I mean the Orthodox Church, not any Hebrew Roots Movement.

 

[Tone]

This thread is certainly not the place to discuss it, but just to be clear, I am in no way referring to such groups in my post. I specified the Orthodox Church because I mean the Orthodox Church, not any Hebrew Roots Movement.

I specified what I felt necessary to the OP and to @Eva Quispe. Thank you.

 

[buzuxi02]

You have free will to choose to believe whatever you want.

 

[Johan_1988]

I’m 19 and considered myself Christian until 15. I grew up attending church/youth group and reading The Bible on my own time.

At fifteen, I began reading annotating The Bible and was disturbed that people interpreted the stories literally, rejecting the Big Bang Theory, evolution, and timeline of the universe. Also rejecting gay marriage for Biblical reasons. I couldn’t relate to The Bible, and my mother later found out I didn’t believe in God.

I listen to podcasts that often reference Judeo-Christian values and it’s history in the west. Although I am not Christian, I find it interesting and enjoy conversations on how religion shaped modern society and culture.

After rejecting the church, I found indigenous prayer. My boyfriend is Northern American Indian and introduced me to the inipi. It’s a sacred ceremony, honoring the Great Spirit, or in my culture Pachamama, etc. It seemed to be missing from my life until then.. (My mother is white and my father is Native American of Latin America.) I had awkward mixed-race moments with both sides of the family, never being white enough or native enough. Prayer also influences this.

I had the revelation that practicing Christianity or being in the Catholic Church is an insult to my indigenous ancestors. Colonizers destroyed our way of life. Our religion and ceremonies were banned; our language was illegal; people who want a simple life in the country are called peasants to this day. My grandfather knows our indigenous language but didn’t teach my father or I because we would make better Americans without it... a second wave of colonization in my family history.

I’m learning our language and I continue to make offerings to Pachamama. No colonizer can erase that part of me now. I find strength in ancestral prayer, but something is still missing. In my home country in South America, many indigenous people embrace Catholicism and indigenous prayer/practices. Others don’t because this religion caused all the suffering our ancestors endured. The Churches were built over wakas, our sacred places.. it’s insulting and sad.

I don’t know why I want to be apart of the Catholic Church or Christianity — I don’t believe in the miracles of Jesus. And I strongly disagree with the 10 commandments saying you cannot honor anything else, ie. the earth, the sun, the moon. The Virgin of Guadalupe is based on the idea of the Aztec goddess Tonantzin. It is a story to indoctrinate us. And if American Christians saw indigenous Christians in my grandfather’s country, I think people would call them fake Christians for honoring Jesus and Pachamama.

This is a polarizing topic in the indigenous community. Some of my friends did a retreat on the Navajo reservation, called Natives for Jesus. Another friend of our was upset they’re practicing Christianity. And a completely different (indigenous) friend group all reject Christianity — I do too.

Yet I cried when I heard the Saint name Tata Santiago. Tata means sir/father in my indigenous language. He is a saint in MY home country. I cried until I learned he was a Spaniard.

Since I live in a predominately Hispanic community, a Catholic priest may better understand my internal struggle. Any advice would be appreciated.

I would love to hear from people of all racial backgrounds

Hi. I understand your issues with Christianity. That most of the settlers were hypocrites and abused native populations ,even in my country there was a time where religion with politics was used to control the people, brainwashing whites to justify oppressing natives and relegating them as sub-humans and we are suffering the consequence where the roles have been reversed, in politics at least, and being white means you have some magical privilege even if you are poor or homeless and means you should be treated with the prejudice of being a racist if you are not a patronizer and servant or helper of black people .

What the settlers did was wrong, but it does not invalidate Christianity. Racism is a remnant of old European culture which was not a result of Christian teachings ,but wanting to be superior they took some Old Testament text out of context and thought they were the only holy and Godly race like the Jews in the Old Testament, they even persecuted the Jews sometimes believing they have supplanted the Jews as the true church, but that is simply not true Christianity. In Christianity there is no racism and favoritism according to
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

We have to make a distinct difference between Culture and religion or we will just be having arguments of the traditions of our fathers. I left the traditional church of my upbringing which was heavily entrenched in my culture, which had a lot of the traditions and doctrines of men, until I found the true church of Jesus Christ which delivered me from cultural bondage and set me on a path of a new life of joy, love, peace, provision and discipline I have never experienced and will be forever grateful for.

Strange that you should mention Tata as father in your native tongue. Here in my country it is the IsiXhosa word for grandfather.

 

[Silmarien]

Hi Eva,

I was looking up Tata Santiago, and assuming he's the same figure who is featured here, this refers to the Apostle James (son of Zebedee), who was one of Jesus's original followers and therefore very much not a Spaniard. He's an extremely important figure in Spain, since according to tradition, he's buried at Santiago de Compostela (hence the Camino de Santiago pilgrimage), but he was not himself Spanish.

(That said, I think it might be worth looking the ways in which various Spanish figures, like Bartolomé de las Casas, for example, actually did advocate for the rights of indigenous peoples.)

My only advice would be to remember that Christianity was not originally a European religion at all, but very much a Middle Eastern one. When the first missionary activity was carried out, it wasn't actually spread with violence--that didn't start happening until after it had been adopted by the Roman Empire as the official religion. There's a lot of terrible stuff that has been carried out in Christ's name, but I personally feel that whenever this has happened, it's been a betrayal of what Christianity was actually supposed to be. I think you might want to look into some of the Latin American liberation theologians (Gustavo Gutiérrez is the major one)--they're unpopular amongst traditional Catholics, but I think you might find it a helpful perspective.

 

[JIMINZ]

All I hear you saying is you are angry with what has been presented to you and you all Indigenous peoples as Christianity.
But your argument isn't with Christianity, God, or even Jesus but the Catholic Church.

Your understanding has been colored by what was done by the Spanish in South America 500 yrs. ago, they were not representing Christianity, they were Conquering for Spain, they were representing a Country, not Christianity as a Religion.

Remember, the Catholic Church also persecuted Jews and those who were not Catholic during the Spanish Inquisition.

God, Jesus did not sanction, or condone what the Catholic Church did in the name of the State (Spain).

 

[buzuxi02]

Those people fusing beliefs should
choose one belief system to practise. Combining practises and rituals and other sycretistic customs is nonsensical, unfair to both. If you prefer your native deities and spirutual rites stick with it , there is no need to mix everything up in turn creating a new religion to add to the hodgepodge of sects .

 

[Eva Quispe]

I think you are concentrating on your ethnical and cultural background more than on what is truth.

The fact that your country received something from Spaniards who did not behave very gently does not make it invalid. If Spaniards brought the knowledge of mathematics or of writing/reading, it does not mean you must reject such skills, just because your ancestors did not have them before the colonization. The same with the truths of Christianity.

Also, there are more possibilities than just catholicism, in the Christianity.

I wasn’t raised Catholic. My parents and I attended an evangelical church.

I don’t know what the truth is. After this post, I feel better about embracing Christianity as an indigenous person but I still don’t believe in His Word.

 

[JIMINZ]

I don’t know what the truth is. After this post, I feel better about embracing Christianity as an indigenous person but I still don’t believe in His Word.

You need to understand His Word is for you as a single human person, not an Indigenous People, it's your relationship He wants to have, it's you Personally He died for, not your people.

 

[Eva Quispe]

Sure I understand it’s a personal connection with Jesus, but I really am not Christian anymore. I feel weird writing on a Christian forum when I don’t believe any of it. In a way I hope someone convinced me otherwise

 

[Eva Quispe]

Eastern Orthodoxy reached the Alaskan Natives the correct way :

.

Thank you for sharing

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Thank you for sharing

You're welcome.


.

 

[Eva Quispe]

If only RCs would see this...

"Jesus" is Latin, so...

His Hebrew Name is Yahshua (Yahweh's Salvation)

Anyways, I can relate to a lot of what you are saying, though it was Spanish my people didn't teach me, thinking that would help assimilation...go figure...Spanish would be really nice in the area I live.

Most of what I picked up was in prison...some Nahuatl too.


We are the violent and tumultuous meeting between the Old and the New...and in Messiah we are newer creatures still!

Really we have the same experience. Spanish was the other language they didn’t teach me. SAME reason. Working on my spanish and native language

You should keep learning Nahuatl it’s beautiful

Were you raised Christian or Catholic?

 

[Tone]

I wasn’t raised Catholic. My parents and I attended an evangelical church.

I don’t know what the truth is. After this post, I feel better about embracing Christianity as an indigenous person but I still don’t believe in His Word.

Christianity without His Word is a dried up twig, ready to be burned.