Religion and evolution

[Dunban]

This is mostly for the Jewish and Muslim brothers and sisters that post here. Does your faith support or deny a belief in evolution? Is evolution compatible with your faith or religion?

 

[football5680]

Jews have the same Old Testament so you can answer that question for yourself. A literal interpretation would say no.

The creation story in the Quran is pretty much the same as well so a literal reading would say it is not compatible either.

 

[LoAmmi]

This is mostly for the Jewish and Muslim brothers and sisters that post here. Does your faith support or deny a belief in evolution? Is evolution compatible with your faith or religion?

It depends. I know some Orthodox rabbis who have embraced evolution and teach that it is not incompatible with Torah or Jewish beliefs. I know some Orthodox rabbis who reject it.

Conservative, Reform, and Reconstruction Judaism would embrace evolution.

 

[xDenax]

It depends. I know some Orthodox rabbis who have embraced evolution and teach that it is not incompatible with Torah or Jewish beliefs. I know some Orthodox rabbis who reject it.

Conservative, Reform, and Reconstruction Judaism would embrace evolution.

Yeah, that.

 

[Zoness]

My faith is technically neutral on the subject but most pagans accept the observed, scientific explanations for various phenomena including accepting the Big Bang and Evolution.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I realize this wasn't addressed to other Christians, but it may still be worth bringing out St. Augustine,

"Although this work of God was done in an instant, did the light remain, without night coming on, until the time of one day was complete; and did the night, following upon the day light, continue while the hours of the nighttime passed by until the morning of the following day dawned, one day, the first one, being then complete? But if I make such a statement, I fear I shall be laughed at both by those who have scientific knowledge of these matters and by those who can easily recognize the facts of the case. At the time when night is with us, the sun is illuminating with its presence those parts of the world through which it returns from the place of its setting to that of its rising. Hence it is for the whole twenty-four hours of the sun's circuit there is always day in one place and night in another." - St. Augustine, De Genesis ad Litteram, Book I, x, 21

"Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things which they make assertion." - De Genesi ad Litteram, Book I, xix, 39

(as an off topic aside, I was noticing that the Latin text for this actually doesn't say "non-Christian" or "infidel", and these seem to be supplied by the translator, though the context itself is clear that Augustine is talking about non-Christians hearing Christians expound on Scripture concerning matters they are ignorant of)

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Dunban]

All right, that's what I thought. Any Muslims care to chime in? I've heard Islam doesn't directly oppose evolution, but if you look at Turkey, a predominately Muslim country, they would say otherwise.

 

[Arthra]

Not a Muslim here.. Baha'is acknowledge that mankind has changed and evolved over great periods of time but suggest the potential to be human has always been there... So we didn't evolve from say apes but we were at one time apelike in appearance...

To recapitulate: as man in the womb of the mother passes from form to form, from shape to shape, changes and develops, and is still the human species from the beginning of the embryonic period -- in the same way man, from the beginning of his existence in the matrix of the world, is also a distinct species -- that is, man -- and has gradually evolved from one form to another.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 192

 

[Isambard]

All right, that's what I thought. Any Muslims care to chime in? I've heard Islam doesn't directly oppose evolution, but if you look at Turkey, a predominately Muslim country, they would say otherwise.

From my understanding, Islam is by and large against the idea of human evolution. More liberal Muslims will avoid the discussion all together, but if pressed, will give a noncommittal answer at best. That's what happens when you claim your holy book comes from a divine being - it doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room.

 

[muslimsoldier4life]

Any Muslims care to chime in? I've heard Islam doesn't directly oppose evolution, but if you look at Turkey, a predominately Muslim country, they would say otherwise.

Do Muslims oppose evolution? On the big scale of macro-evolution of humans, yes we do.

 

[ViaCrucis]

That's what happens when you claim your holy book comes from a divine being - it doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room.

It was never particularly difficult for Christians to understand that our Scriptures are not intended to be or do science, as I tried to demonstrate with my references from St. Augustine.

Such contests between science and religion within Christian history seem to be more the exception to the rule. Even in the case of Galileo, the issue seems to have ultimately come down to not Galileo challenging "the authority of Scripture", but rather Galileo challenging the authority of the Church and (intentionally or unintentionally) insulting the Pope; ending in a rather unpleasant cluster and the good scientist under house arrest--and forever helping to keep alive the social narrative that religion and science don't work well together.

I can't speak for Muslims, but I'd wager that Muslims as a whole are as capable as Christians and other religious people to understand that being sacred text does not make something science.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[TG123]

Do Muslims oppose evolution? On the big scale of macro-evolution of humans, yes we do.

Glad to hear that, my friend.

It's unbelievable how in many schools it is taught as "a fact".

 

[Zoness]

The conflict with Galileo and the Church immortalized a conflict between religion and science that didn't need to exist. This wound was torn further open when fundamentalism began to take root in the United States in line with conflicts over the validity of evolution vs Christianity's seven day literal creation. Take those things, amplify the group philosophical echo chambers by 10x and you have where we stand today.

 

[Dunban]

Glad to hear that, my friend.

It's unbelievable how in many schools it is taught as "a fact".

It's as much a fact as gravity.

Just because the term "theory" is used has nothing to do with its validity.

I'm not surprised Muslims would poo-poo evolution, as most Christians also do. Religion and science have never been friends and never will be.

 

[Dunban]

The conflict with Galileo and the Church immortalized a conflict between religion and science that didn't need to exist. This wound was torn further open when fundamentalism began to take root in the United States in line with conflicts over the validity of evolution vs Christianity's seven day literal creation. Take those things, amplify the group philosophical echo chambers by 10x and you have where we stand today.

That was one event. Over time, people could learn to forgive and forget one faux pas. However, modern day churches are far more vehemently against evolution than the Church was against Galileo. Many make it their life's work to decry against the "evils" of evolution and scientific inquiry. The sad truth is, Christians are known more for what they are against rather than what they are for.

 

[Zoness]

It's as much a fact as gravity.

Just because the term "theory" is used has nothing to do with its validity.

I'm not surprised Muslims would poo-poo evolution, as most Christians also do. Religion and science have never been friends and never will be.

Yeah I sure hope we don't get in the "its just a theory, its wrong" discussion like on most threads of this ilk.

I've been trying to avoid such butthurtness for quite awhile.

 

[TG123]

It's as much a fact as gravity.

Just because the term "theory" is used has nothing to do with its validity.

I'm not surprised Muslims would poo-poo evolution, as most Christians also do. Religion and science have never been friends and never will be.

Well, God created the world so I don't believe there is a problem between science and Him.
Please explain why you believe the theory of evolution is a "fact".

 

[ViaCrucis]

The conflict with Galileo and the Church immortalized a conflict between religion and science that didn't need to exist. This wound was torn further open when fundamentalism began to take root in the United States in line with conflicts over the validity of evolution vs Christianity's seven day literal creation. Take those things, amplify the group philosophical echo chambers by 10x and you have where we stand today.

An interesting tidbit: The early, original Fundamentalists weren't Young Earth Creationists, at least not most of them. Young Earth Creationism didn't come into vogue until much later after the "Scopes Monkey Trial". The 1961 book, "The Genesis Flood" more-or-less is credited with bringing Young Earth Creationism from a view held by some Fundamentalists to the view of Fundamentalism.

With the political ans social upheaval of the 60's, it shouldn't be surprising then that evolution became attached to "the opposition" by the growing, conservative religious right and moral majority; and thus Young Earth Creationism was hoisted up as a banner of Christian moralism against the secular immorality and evil in such things as evolution. That sentiment has been branded upon the religious landscape of America as many a Christian has indulged themselves of that particular kool-aid.

For the record, many of the early Fundamentalists were actually Old Earth Creationists, fully accepting of ancient geology (as it had been a long established fact in the scientific community, before Darwin, that the earth was at least millions of years old; and that didn't seem to bother many).

Young Earth Creationism is in all honesty, a rather novel thing. Hardly a benchmark of Christian orthodoxy as some would like to argue. While there have always been Christians who do believe the basics of Young Earth Creationism, it has never been held as a basic tenet of Christianity; but rather one opinion among various opinions that are equally valid. It has never held as dogma within the history of the Christian Church (with the exception of the last 60 or so years among certain Fundamentalist sectarians).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Well, God created the world so I don't believe there is a problem between science and Him.
Please explain why you believe the theory of evolution is a "fact".

Because living things evolve, and have been doing so on this planet for at least several billion years.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

That was one event. Over time, people could learn to forgive and forget one faux pas. However, modern day churches are far more vehemently against evolution than the Church was against Galileo. Many make it their life's work to decry against the "evils" of evolution and scientific inquiry. The sad truth is, Christians are known more for what they are against rather than what they are for.

This is far less an issue among Mainline Churches, especially outside of the United States. In Britain or Europe one will find it's simply not the issue that it is in the US.

-CryptoLutheran