Reincarnation in Christianity and Judaism

[cloudyday2]

Belief in reincarnation is common in modern Judaism, and some people claim that belief in reincarnation was once common in Christianity.

(1) When is the earliest record of Jews professing belief in reincarnation? Some claim that Josephus mentioned the belief, but others claim that Josephus was actually describing belief in the resurrection of the dead at the day of judgment.

(2) Where/when is early Christian belief in reincarnation mentioned as common and acceptable? Apparently Origin speculated about reincarnation, but the speculation of an intellectual does not imply a common belief - in fact it probably argues AGAINST a common belief because there would be no reason to speculate about it.

(3) Is reincarnation compatible with Christian theology?

Here is a Wikipedia page with some info:
Reincarnation - Wikipedia

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Belief in reincarnation is common in modern Judaism, and some people claim that belief in reincarnation was once common in Christianity.

As far as Judaism goes this is something that came mostly after the all the Kabalistic mystical stuff.


As far as "Christianity" goes this is more an influence from Gnosticism and Manicheanism, and Greek Philosophy and not something that is generally regarded or accepted as being orthodox.


Edit/addition - some Essene groups did believe in this, but by and large the above is still true.

 

[d taylor]

The only reincarnation connected with the Bible. will be when the king of the north is killed and after he is brought back to life. he will be possessed with the spirit of a long dead roman emperor

The King of The North in Daniel 11:36 is the same man as Paul speaks of in 2 Thessalonians 2

“Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done.

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Revelation 17 speaks to this.
“Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.

 

[eleos1954]

Reincarnation puts forth that someone or something never really dies it turns into something else .... that puts forth the belief of immortality ... there is nothing immortal about us ... we do not become immortal until Jesus returns .... there is not a "immortal soul" that goes somewhere as some teach.

We were made from dust .... we return to dust ... and wait "in a dormant state" in the grave for Jesus to return and we will be resurrected by Him from the grave and given the gift of eternal life (immortality) with Him.

1 Thessalonians 4

The Return of the Lord

13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Belief in reincarnation is common in modern Judaism, and some people claim that belief in reincarnation was once common in Christianity.

(1) When is the earliest record of Jews professing belief in reincarnation? Some claim that Josephus mentioned the belief, but others claim that Josephus was actually describing belief in the resurrection of the dead at the day of judgment.

(2) Where/when is early Christian belief in reincarnation mentioned as common and acceptable? Apparently Origin speculated about reincarnation, but the speculation of an intellectual does not imply a common belief - in fact it probably argues AGAINST a common belief because there would be no reason to speculate about it.

(3) Is reincarnation compatible with Christian theology?

Here is a Wikipedia page with some info:
Reincarnation - Wikipedia

Reincarnation may apply to angels according to one scripture in Hebrews.

However, humans are to die once and then face judgment according to one scripture passage in Hebrews.

 

[cloudyday2]

Edit/addition - some Essene groups did believe in this, but by and large the above is still true.

Can you give more info on that? If Jesus arose from an Essene group, and some Essenes believed in reincarnation, then that might support the claims that many early Christians believed in reincarnation.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

[

Can you give more info on that? If Jesus arose from an Essene group, and some Essenes believed in reincarnation, then that would might support the claims that many early early Christians believed in reincarnation.

Well I don't think it was a normative belief (skimming the below link which is a pretty exhaustive summary from ancient historical sources).
ESSENES - JewishEncyclopedia.com


So far this is the best write up I've seen on the general topic.
Did early Jews believe in reincarnation? | CARM.org

 

[Barney2.0]

Historical Judaism has never had a belief in reincarnation, present day Judaism doesn’t even have a clear cut description of an afterlife or whether there is infact any sort of afterlife. The Sadducees rejected any sort of resurrection of the dead, the Pharisees believed in a resurrection and held to a vague view of the after life.

As for Christianity, no it has never held to a belief in reincarnation, by “Christianity” I mean what scholars now refer to as the “Proto-Orthodox” Church or community. This is the group that all modern Christian denominations descend from in one way or another minus the thousands of schisms that occurred within the community over the centuries of course. The Gnostics never had anything to do with the actual Christian or Apostolic community, their views were taken from Hellenic philosophy and Neo-Platonism not from the actual Apostolic tradition or New Testament and they would either forcefully interpret or even edit the New Testament to support these heretical views just like Marcion did or even invent whole new forgeries out of the blue to support their doctrines and attribute them to famous Apostles.

As for Origen, well he spectulated a lot of things that went out of the bounds of Orthodoxy, I’m not sure if he himself actually believed in Reincarnation, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he did. Although Origen was a genius thinker and Apologist which no one denies, many of his teachings and works were heretical and later condemned as such after many Church Fathers actually inspected them openly for all to see in multiple Church Councils. There is a good reason why Origen isn’t called Saint Origen or why he’s not venerated as a Church Father, so yes it did go against the common belief even at the time.

 

[Ilikecats]

3. No.
It’s appointed once for man to die and then the judgement. There are no second lives.

 

[cloudyday2]

[


Well I don't think it was a normative belief (skimming the below link which is a pretty exhaustive summary from ancient historical sources).
ESSENES - JewishEncyclopedia.com


So far this is the best write up I've seen on the general topic.
Did early Jews believe in reincarnation? | CARM.org

Thanks, those are good links.

There is also a good book - "Beyond the Essene Hypothesis" by Gabriele Boccaccini
Beyond the Essene Hypothesis: The Parting of the Ways between Qumran and Enochic Judaism by Gabriele Boccaccini

The author has a few pages on immortality of the soul. The majority of the Essenes evolved to believe that immediately upon death our immortal soul waits in one of four wells at the corners of an island where the sun sets in the west. The righteous souls occupy one well in comfort, and the unrighteous souls occupy the other wells in eternal misery. On the day of judgment the righteous souls are resurrected into immortal bodies.

 

[Robban]

Belief in reincarnation is common in modern Judaism, and some people claim that belief in reincarnation was once common in Christianity.

(1) When is the earliest record of Jews professing belief in reincarnation? Some claim that Josephus mentioned the belief, but others claim that Josephus was actually describing belief in the resurrection of the dead at the day of judgment.

(2) Where/when is early Christian belief in reincarnation mentioned as common and acceptable? Apparently Origin speculated about reincarnation, but the speculation of an intellectual does not imply a common belief - in fact it probably argues AGAINST a common belief because there would be no reason to speculate about it.

(3) Is reincarnation compatible with Christian theology?

Here is a Wikipedia page with some info:
Reincarnation - Wikipedia

(1),
The Written Torah does not include any information about what happens to the soul after death, heaven and hell, the nature of the soul- or even much about G-d for that matter.
The Five Books of Moses simply cannot be seen as a theological work.

It is principally a practical guide, couched in story form.

The above from Menachem Posner.

However, Jewish mystical teachings were always an integral part of the Oral Law and were transmitted together with the rest of the Oral Law by Moses to Joshua, through the era of the Prophets and the Men of the Great Assembly,

until the time of the redactors of the Talmud.

The Five Books of Moses and the Prophets describe numerous mystical visions and experiences but do not explain them or the methods used to achieve them.

Above from Moshe Miller.

The Torah was given to Moses, by G-d, accompanied by an oral counterpart.
The Oral Torah is as much G-d's word as the Written Torah.

Much was written later in the Talmud but not all, the more mystical esotoric
was always meant to be transmitted orally.

So, as Rabbi Moshe Cordovera asserted,
"Those who know do not tell and those who tell do not know."

Not so much the concept in itself but the secrets of reincarnation are meant
to be held by those who can be trusted not to spill the beans.

(2)+(3),
They will have to answer themselves.
IDK.

 

[Robban]

Hillel known for his profound knowledge and extraordinary patience.
Like Moses, he was known for his humility;
and, like Moses, he lived for one hundred and twenty years.
According to kabbalistic tradition he and Moses shared the same soul.

Then there was another who I cannot come upon his name at the moment.
When he was six years old he was asked how old he was,

he replied, "Fiftyeight".

He meant that he shared the same soul as Samuel who died at the age of fiftytwo, plus six would make fiftyeight.

 

[cloudyday2]

Hillel known for his profound knowledge and extraordinary patience.
Like Moses, he was known for his humility;
and, like Moses, he lived for one hundred and twenty years.
According to kabbalistic tradition he and Moses shared the same soul.

Then there was another who I cannot come upon his name at the moment.
When he was six years old he was asked how old he was,

he replied, "Fiftyeight".

He meant that he shared the same soul as Samuel who died at the age of fiftytwo, plus six would make fiftyeight.

That answers one of the questions I had on reincarnation in Judaism. I was wondering if a soul immediately is reborn in a new body after death or if there can be a wait. Apparently there can be a wait if Hillel was believed to be a reincarnation of Moses (unless there were reincarnations in between the two that were less noteworthy).

I also found a good article that answered the male/female question and the animal question:

Generally the souls of men transmigrate into the bodies of men, and those of women into the bodies of women; but there are exceptions.

Each human soul is a spark ("niẓaẓ") from Adam. The first sin of the first man caused confusion among the various classes of souls; so that even the purest soul received an admixture of evil. This state of confusion, which gives a continual impulse toward evil, will cease with the arrival of the Messiah, who will establish the moral system of the world on a new basis. Until that time man's soul, because of its deficiencies, can not return to its source, and has to wander not only through the bodies of men, but even through inanimate things. If a man's good deeds outweigh his evil ones, his soul passes into a human body; otherwise, into that of an animal.

TRANSMIGRATION OF SOULS - JewishEncyclopedia.com

 

[Robban]

That answers one of the questions I had on reincarnation in Judaism. I was wondering if a soul immediately is reborn in a new body after death or if there can be a wait. Apparently there can be a wait if Hillel was believed to be a reincarnation of Moses (unless there were reincarnations in between the two that were less noteworthy).

I also found a good article that answered the male/female question and the animal question:


TRANSMIGRATION OF SOULS - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Cremation is a big no-no,it is thought that the soul can linger,

also religious attire and materials should not be taken to a grave site
of a newly deceased, it would not be good seeing as the soul cannot fulfill
any such.

So, I do not think a soul returns to a new body at once.

If the soul has fulfilled all it's obligations there would be no need to be sent down again.

Another man by the name of Moses, Moses Maimonides,

wrote, there are consequences to our actions---consequences that reflect those actions.
If you commit murder and drown others in a river to hide your crime,
you will recieve your punishment in the form of your crime.

If you invent an unjust thing to benifit yourself at the expense of others,
that unjust thing will ultimately be used against you.

On the positive side, if you introduce something that benefits others,
that thing will ultimately benifit you as well.

midah k'neged midah--measure for measure.

So even if it takes time it will be so.

 

[cloudyday2]

Cremation is a big no-no,it is thought that the soul can linger,

also religious attire and materials should not be taken to a grave site
of a newly deceased, it would not be good seeing as the soul cannot fulfill
any such.

So, I do not think a soul returns to a new body at once.

If the soul has fulfilled all it's obligations there would be no need to be sent down again.

Another man by the name of Moses, Moses Maimonides,

wrote, there are consequences to our actions---consequences that reflect those actions.
If you commit murder and drown others in a river to hide your crime,
you will recieve your punishment in the form of your crime.

If you invent an unjust thing to benifit yourself at the expense of others,
that unjust thing will ultimately be used against you.

On the positive side, if you introduce something that benefits others,
that thing will ultimately benifit you as well.

midah k'neged midah--measure for measure.

So even if it takes time it will be so.

An alternative is that either we are all one unified spirit (as the Hindus believe) or in our ultimate state of enlightenment we will care about others as much as we care about ourselves.

So with either of those solutions there is no need to punish a person for a crime, because the crime itself is the punishment (like hitting your thumb with a hammer). We think we have committed the perfect crime, but that is only because we don't understand our connections to everything else.

Another nice thing about this connectedness is that birth and death become meaningless. There is no need for an afterlife or reincarnation, because our individuality is a delusion. We are not actually alive as individuals, so we cannot die as individuals.

 

[Radagast]

and some people claim that belief in reincarnation was once common in Christianity.

No, it wasn't.

(3) Is reincarnation compatible with Christian theology?

No.

 

[Radagast]

An alternative is that either we are all one unified spirit (as the Hindus believe)

Not all Hindus. Some schools of Hinduism (Dvaita Vedanta) see 5 fundamental differences:

1. Between individual souls and God (I am not God)
2. Between physical matter and God (the tree is not God).
3. Between one individual soul and another (I am not you).
4. Between physical matter and individual soul (I am not the tree).
5. Between various types of physical matter (the tree is not the rock).

 

[cloudyday2]

No.

Where do you see the incompatibilities between Christianity and reincarnation?

 

[cloudyday2]

Not all Hindus. Some schools of Hinduism (Dvaita Vedanta) see 5 fundamental differences:

1. Between individual souls and God (I am not God)
2. Between physical matter and God (the tree is not God).
3. Between one individual soul and another (I am not you).
4. Between physical matter and individual soul (I am not the tree).
5. Between various types of physical matter (the tree is not the rock).

That is interesting. I have read that the only common thread in Hindu religions is the veneration of the Vedas. I have never read the Vedas, but they must be open to lots of different interpretations. I have also read that the only common thread in Hindu religions is geography.

 

[Radagast]

Where do you see the incompatibilities between Christianity and reincarnation?

Christianity teaches that the dead are judged, and continue on to Heaven or Hell.