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Reign with Christ how long?

Discussion in 'Dispensationalism' started by Soon Rev 22:11-12, Feb 14, 2006.

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  1. A Brother In Christ

    A Brother In Christ Senior Veteran

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    1 john 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

    1 john 4:3 and every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in flesh is not of God: and this is the spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world..

    what are these verses here for... antichrist were in the world when John wrote this....

    In revelations it is the Beast "who is an antichrist" yet he is call the Beast in scripture


    wonderful promise from God ...isn't it!
     
  2. Soon Rev 22:11-12

    Soon Rev 22:11-12 Senior Member

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    The intent of the OP was to show that a pre-trib rapture, a 2 stage coming, would make 1000 years actually 1000+, instead.
     
  3. TheScottsMen

    TheScottsMen Veteran

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    Do you agree with that? It is true, only an enemy of God's word would doubt what it said.

    I would again agree. When God says 1000 years are they not 1000 years? I never said I agreed that the Body of Christ will be ruling on earth:) Though, I don't think nothing will stop us from coming to Earth or going back again.

    Blessings,
    TSM
     
  4. eph3Nine

    eph3Nine Mid Acts, Pauline, Dispy to the max!

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    Nope...we who are the Body will reign in heavenly places ...NOT On the earth.
     
  5. A Brother In Christ

    A Brother In Christ Senior Veteran

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    After rev 20:1-7 John stating 1000 years 6 times ..

    name a prophecy that has already been fulfilled where it did not come to pass just as God stated
     
  6. TheScottsMen

    TheScottsMen Veteran

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    Huh? Do you think I'm disagreeing with you?:scratch: God means 1000 years. I'm in agreement.
     
  7. A Brother In Christ

    A Brother In Christ Senior Veteran

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    mis read it sorry
     
  8. Iosias

    Iosias Senior Contributor

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    Surely you can accept that in a very symbolic book the number 1000 could be symbolic. 10 is used to symbolise completeness and here it is to the power of three so we have absolute completeness. Christ reigns until all are made his footstool then comes the eternal state.
     
  9. JMWHALEN

    JMWHALEN Senior Member

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    Columbo: The Case of the Sinless Man on Earth
    or
    Evidence there will be literal "thousand year"(Revelation 20:2- 7) reign of the Lord Jesus Christ-"... as the days of heaven upon the earth...."(Deuteronomy 11:21)

    By John M. Whalen

    All Christians should agree that The Lord Jesus Christ was the only man that has ever walked the earth to this point in time(2005) who had no sin: 2 Cor. 5:21; Hebrews 4:15,7:26; 1 John 3:5; Luke 23:4; John 18:38,19:4-6. Is this not a "basic doctrine" of Christianity, and a pre-requisite for the Lord Jesus Christ being our kinsman-redeemer? Notice:

    "Who did no sin, NEITHER WAS GUILE FOUND IN HIS MOUTH(emphasis mine)". 1 Peter 2:22

    But notice:

    "Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, IN WHOM IS NO GUILE!(emphasis mine)" John 1:47

    How is this possible-Nathanael is characterized as a man on earth "in whom is no guile"?

    The solution:

    Part of the definition of a prophet is "one who speaks for another"(for eg., Moses speaking on behalf of the LORD, Aaron speaking for Moses-Exodus 4:12,15("put words in his mouth"),16("thy spokesman"); 7:1; Deuteronomy 18:18("will put my words in his mouth").

    The Lord Jesus Christ was a prophet, "the prophet": Deut. 18:15;Mt. 13:57,21:11;Mk. 6:4; Luke 1:76,4:24,7:16,24:19;John 1:45,4:44,6:14,7:40,9:17; Acts 2:30,3:22,23,7:37. The definition fits the Lord Jesus Christ's own admission:

    "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things." Jn. 8:28

    "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." Jn. 12:49-50

    "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." John 14:10

    Thus, the Lord Jesus Christ was fulfilling His role as a/the prophet. He was speaking for His Father in Heaven-the words He spoke were His Father's words, not His(as was true for all the prophets).

    "Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee" John 1:48

    And notice if we "...search out a matter...."(Proverbs 25:2):

    "And Judah and Israel dwelt safely, every man under his vine and under his fig tree, from Dan even to Beersheba, all the days of Solomon." 1 Kings 4:25

    " But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it." Micah 4:4

    "In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree." Zech. 3:10

    Thus, in John 1;47, the Lord Jesus Christ, in the context of his office "the Prophet", was looking into the future, and providing a glimpse of the ideal conditions that will exist in forthcoming , and promised, millennium kingdom, a time the scripture refers to as the times of "refreshing"(Exodus 31:17, Isaiah 28:12, Acts 3:19), and of the "restitution of all things"(Acts 3:21). This is the enfolding of the promise that the Lord Jesus Christ shall rule from David's throne(2 Sam. 5-"the Davidic Covenant"-the covenant which God made with David at the time he revealed to him that Solomon would build the Temple, of which the reign of Solomon pre-figures the millennium reign-a type). Is this not what the Lord had in mind when He states that "...thou shalt see greater things than these...."(John 1:50)?

    This 1000 year reign will be characterized by the righteous reign of the Lord Jesus Christ, and, as J. Dwight Pentecost summarized , a time of peace, joy, comfort, justice, the removal of the curse, no sickness, healing of the deformed, no immaturity, economic prosperity, and Holiness. This holiness will be manifested through the King and the King's subjects, the JEWS. This holiness, this trait of Jews("an Israelite"-John 1:47) having "...no guile", is realization of the promise of the New Covenant, and this is what the Lord Jesus Christ was alluding to in John.

    Indeed, the millennium kingdom will be the fruition, the display, and the fulfillment of 3 covenants promised in The Old Testament-the Abrahamic, the Davidic, and the New Covenant. The Lord Jesus Christ was prophesizing partial fulfillment of the New Covenant in John 1:47. Part of the promise of the New Covenant was that the Jews would be given a new heart, and a new spirit:

    "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." Jeremiah 31:33

    "At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: NEITHER SHALL THEY WALK ANY MORE AFTER THE IMAGINATION OF THEIR EVIL HEART(emphasis mine)." Jeremiah 3:17

    "Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence. And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: THAT THEY MAY WALK IN MY STATUTES, AND KEEP MINE ORDINANCES, AND DO THEM: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God." Ezekiel 11:17-20

    As Columbo would say, "That clears that up!"
    ______________________________________________________________

    As you well know, the OT is the LORD God's "picture book", His object lessons, pointing to some phase of the person or work of the Lord Jesus Christ and our relation to Him. The word "ensample" is from "tupos"-our English word "type." And as you know, Joseph is a type of Christ. In Psalms 81:5 we read that Joseph was ordained by the LORD God as a testimony, or a type, in all his Egyptian experiences. I have seen many studies re. the analogous and typical relations between the Lord Jesus Christ and Joseph before(as I am sure you have also), but the following solidifies the millennium viewpoint, and supports the certainty that there will be the Great Tribulation-again refuting the preterist theology. Genesis Chapter 42: In verses 1-3, Joseph's brethren, because of great tribulation, were forced to seek out Joseph for help. Similarly, the Jews, during the Great Tribulation, amid great tribulation, shall call upon Him who is Lord(Deut. 30:1,2 and others). In verse 7,Joseph punished his brethren before he revealed himself to them. Similarly, the Lord Jesus Christ will punish the Jews prior to revealing Himself to them(Mt. 24:21,30 and others). Notice this is in chapter 42 of Genesis- one chapter for each month of the Great Tribulation: Daniel 7:25; Rev. 12:6, 12:14, 13:5.

    Also notice that the book of Job( which means "one persecuted"), is a type of the Great Tribulation. It also has 42 chapters. Job is "...upon the ground seven days and seven nights....:(Job 2:13), one for each year in Daniel's 70th week. Job is in Edom per Lamentations 4:21-this is where Israel will be in the Great Tribulation per Isaiah 34:6 and Isaiah 63:1 and the book of Obadiah . Idumea=Edom=descendants of Esau: Gen. 32:7-"Then Jacob was greatly afraid and distressed...."-This is a picture of "...the time of Jacob's trouble...." of Jer. 30:7, with Esau as a type of the anti-christ pursuing Jacob(Israel) in the Great Tribulation. The one who persecutes Job will be the same one who persecutes Israel during the Great Tribulation.

    These "types" of the surety of a future Great Trib. and 1000 year reign of the Lord Jesus Christ(and the false doctrine of the preterist view) are imbedded throughout the Holy Bible.
    __________________________-

    The body of Christ's eternal destination is heaven, not the earth (2 Corinthians 5:1, Ephesians 1:3-11, 2:6, Philippians 3:20, Colossians 3:1,2; 2 Timothy 4:18, 1 Corinthians 6:3).

    Israel's eternal destination is earth, not heaven. God promised Israel a literal, physical, visible, earthly, Davidic, Messianic kingdom, with Jesus Christ as the king of kings, ruling over the twelve apostles, who would rule over the twelve tribes of Israel, who rule over the nations of this earth. - Genesis 12:7, 13:14-17, 17:8, Numbers 33:50-56, Deuteronomy 6:23, 11:21, Isaiah 11:9, Jeremiah 23:5, Psalm 37:9-11, Matthew 5:5, Matthew 6:10.........

    The Great Tribulation is centered on earth, it's focus being apostate Israel and the unbelieving nations, not the body of Christ, which was a mystery that was not in existence until the Lord Jesus Christ revealed it to Paul progressively.

    The Rapture will conclude this "dispensation of the grace of God"(Eph. 3:2), and you will only find it in the Pauline epistles-it was a mystery, so forget about looking for it in the OT. The Rapture is a part of the secret mystery revealed through Paul for believers in this dispensation of grace. We are not told to look for the anti-Christ, or the "abomination of desolation", but for the Lord's deliverance of us out of this present evil world(Gal. 1:4), for "that blessed hope"(Titus 2:13), and to "wait for his Son from heaven"(1 Thes. 1:10) prior to the LORD's wrath on this Christ-rejecting world.

    I generally find those who expect to go through the Great Tribulation, the modern day "Rambos", usually either do not understand the purpose of the cross, and correspondingly, the purpose of the Great Tribulation. I typically hear such verses as "we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God"(Acts 14:22), as proof texts that believers will go through the Great Trib. Granted, all believers are promised general tribulation in this life in terms of suffering,(Romans 5:3,8:35; 12:12; 2 Cor. 1:4, 7:4, 12:10; Philippians 1:29; 1 Thes. 3:3....). However, believers in this dispensation are promised deliverance from "wrath"(Romans 5:9) "to come"(1 Thes. 1:10), for "God hath not appointed us to wrath"(1 Thes. 5:9)-the 7 year Tribulation.. This wrath is "a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation, even to the same time: and at that time thy people"(Daniel 12:1-Israel, not the Body of Christ), for "there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it"(Joel 2:2), as depicted in Exodus 11:6, "none like it", and confirmed by the Lord Jesus Christ in Mt. 24:21.

    I will not participate in the Great Trib. as outlined in Revelation(and other scripture)-others can stay, but I will not be here. The purpose of Daniel's 70th week of years is for "Jacob's trouble", and is stated in simple, 5th grade English to be for Israel: Jer. 30:7, Daniel 9:20-25, and unbelievers: 1 Thes. 1:8, 2:12, not believers, whose sin(singular) has already been judged at Calvary(Romans 8:3-"condemned sin in the flesh"), whose sins were completely forgiven at Calvary(Romans 4:5-8;Eph. 1:7,4:32; Col. 1:14, 2:13,3:13), and who have been justified by the Lord Jesus Christ's resurrection as proof(Romans 4:25,5:10).

    The reasons for the Trib. are for God to exercise His wrath on a predominantly Christ-rejecting world, to exercise wrath on Satan, and to prepare the remnant of Israel(including Gentile proselytes) for it's promised King, the Lord Jesus Christ, and earthly kingdom(Deut, 4:29-30, 11:21; Jer. 30:3-11;Zech. 12:10). Just as the Lord Jesus Christ's physical body and spirit suffered the wrath of His heavenly Father for us ONCE, and no more, his spiritual body in this dispensation will likewise not suffer the magnitude of the suffering that awaits in the Great Trib. 2000 years ago this great Saviour already experienced this in our stead=in our place.

    When reading writings regarding prophecy, always remember that direct rapture passages occur only in the Pauline books of the Holy Bible-it is a mystery you will not find in the OT-it was "...hid in God...."(Eph. 3:2), not in the OT scriptures, so FORGET ABOUT LOOKING FOR IT IN THE OT. All references to the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ are referring to His second coming to judge/save ISRAEL, and to judge the nations in unbelief. Just as Moses was the primary revelator to Israel under "the law", program, so Paul is our apostle(Rom. 6:14,11:13; 2 Cor. 5:16; Gal. 2:8, 5:18; Eph. 3:2; 2 Tim. 3:8-10).

    In Christ,
    John M. Whalen
     
  10. WAB

    WAB Well-Known Member

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    Well, well, well.... It is nice to be able to agree with you ... at least for once;)
     
  11. eph3Nine

    eph3Nine Mid Acts, Pauline, Dispy to the max!

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    Agreeing with ME is not the issue. Agreeing with Gods Word rightly divided, Is.
     
  12. WAB

    WAB Well-Known Member

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    hold-on to that agreement...:wave:
     
  13. eph3Nine

    eph3Nine Mid Acts, Pauline, Dispy to the max!

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    Its NOT a two stage coming. And it doesnt ADD to the 1000 yr Millenial reign either.

    ONLY One second coming will be back to where He left...the earth, the Mt. Of Olives.

    The other coming will be SECRET...its part of the MYSTERY program given only to Paul for we the Body of Christ. He doesnt come to EARTH but will gather those who are part of the dispensation of the GRACE of God to HIMSELF in the AIR.

    The second coming always refers to Gods coming for Israel.

    The rapture, or the catching away of the CHURCH which is His body , is reserved for those who have believed in the preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO the revelation of the MYSTERY which was KEPT SECRET.

    What you fail to take into account is that there is ONE course of curses LEFT for Israel to go thru to fulfil the contract she signed up for with God in Leviticus 26. It is a seven year time period. It is the GREAT TRIBULATION.

    Anyone interested in a full study....absolutely AWESOME and life changing....on Leviticus 26 and the five courses of curses that Israel earned and where they fit in HISTORY...let me know. I will gladly play a full study on it, LIVE, in paltalk. Its a real eye opener.
     
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