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Reign with Christ how long?

Discussion in 'Dispensationalism' started by Soon Rev 22:11-12, Feb 14, 2006.

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  1. Soon Rev 22:11-12

    Soon Rev 22:11-12 Senior Member

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    This question is for adherents of the doctrine of (unBiblical) secret rapture.

    Reign with Christ for how long -

    1000 years or 1003.5 years?

    1000 years or 1007 years?


    Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
     
  2. holdon

    holdon Well-Known Member

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    Only an enemy of God's word will doubt it. When God says "1000 years" are they not a 1000 years?
     
  3. xenia

    xenia Contributor

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    God owns the cattle on a thousand hills. Only the cattle on a thousand hills?

    A day is as a thousand years.

    The number "thousand" seems to have some allegorical uses.

    Calling someone an enemy of God's word is a little harsh, don't you think?
     
  4. holdon

    holdon Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that was a little harsh.

    Now, "a day is as a thousand years" of course is figurative, because it says so.

    Cattle on a thousand hills is also figurative, because everyone knows there are more than a thousand hills. It is a merely poetic expression for being very rich.

    Thousand years in chapter 20 of the Apocalypse is repeated 6 times. It refers clearly to a defined period. The length of which is a 1000 years. Now, whether or not you take it literal, questions like "is it not 1007?" betray a disrespect for the word of God.

    Of course "soonrev" doesn't believe that there will be people on earth during that period, so he/she questions it alltogether. But reigning with Christ a 1000 years means reigning over something, otherwise reigning has no meaning....
     
  5. TheScottsMen

    TheScottsMen Veteran

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    Oh man, we agree on something!:p
     
  6. eph3Nine

    eph3Nine Mid Acts, Pauline, Dispy to the max!

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    Are we saying that the body of Christ will reign with Christ on the earth here?
     
  7. xenia

    xenia Contributor

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    IMO, we are in the Millennium now and the Saints are reigning with Christ- St. Mary, St. John Chrysostom, St. Seraphim, St. Paul...

    There's another way to look at the puzzle that is the Bible. You can put the same pieces together in a different way and come up with a different picture. I know my dear sister Eph had an "aha!" moment a few years ago when the Mid-Acts view made sense to her. I had an "aha!" moment a few years ago when Amillennialism suddenly made sense.

    But to all of us, I say this: He's coming back! When you hears trumpets, look up!
     
  8. biblebeliever123

    biblebeliever123 Active Member

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    The second coming of Christ (to earth) and the catching away of the church the body of Christ to heaven are TWO separate events. The second coming is PROPHECY...the catching away is MYSTERY.

    The catching away of the body of Christ will take place when this dispensation of the grace of God is closed...when the body of Christ is complete.
    We (the body of Christ) will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. (1 Cor. 15:51,52, 1 Thess. 4:13-18, Titus 2:13, Col. 3:4, Phil.20,21) The body of Christ is NOT appointed to wrath... not a part of the great tribulation the time of Jacob's trouble. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
    Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: WE the body of Christ have PEACE with God and therefore are not going to be receivers of the WRATH of God. We are IN CHRIST and He took that wrath for us already...we are COMPLETE IN CHRIST, accepted in the beloved.
    Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

    Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
    Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

    After the body of Christ is caught up to meet the Lord in the air (also called the rapture) THEN the great tribulation will start then at the end of that 7 year period, the Lord will return TO EARTH at the second coming and after that will set up his millenial kingdom.
    Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

    Of course, if you fail to see and acknowledge the differences between PROPHECY and MYSTERY then you probably won't see it that way....your choice. Search the scriptures comparing spiritual with spiritual with a ready mind and you will see it or cling to your religious claptrap..your choice.
     
  9. biblebeliever123

    biblebeliever123 Active Member

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    If you are looking for the second coming of Christ to earth WITHOUT the rapture of the church the body of Christ taking place first...... then your are looking for the ANTI-CHRIST.

    We the body of Christ will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air BEFORE the great tribulation begins...and when we are gone.... the Antichrist will come on the scene... and he will deceive.

    Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.((((This is the antichrist....the great counterfeiter)))


    Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. (((((This is the Lord at the END of the great tribulation)))))
     
  10. xenia

    xenia Contributor

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    Biblebeliever, you said...

    I have found in my life that when people talk to me like this I pay them no attention whatsoever. If you are desirous of winning people to your point of view may I suggest you show people some respect?
     
  11. biblebeliever123

    biblebeliever123 Active Member

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    Meaning no disrespect to any person....but I have NO respect for 'religion'...hence the term religious claptrap.

    My respect if for God's written, complete word and I am only saying in general on a forum, not to anyone in particular... that we ALL need to receive the WORD with ready minds, searching the scriptures... we are to be LIKE bereans.... in that we follow that example.
    Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

    We are ALL (again NOT any person in particular, just general information for all)
    to....compare scripture with scripture, spiritual with spiritual...
    1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Again, choice is available.... feel free to read and enjoy the scriptures given or feel free to ignore them..... and by all means, use the ignore feature available to you.
     
  12. xenia

    xenia Contributor

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    But Biblebeliever, don't you see how counterproductive it is to insult the very people you are trying to convince? Why not remove that stumbling block, if you are sincere in your desire to win people over? Can't you just say what you believe without backing your opponents into a corner with condescending insults?
     
  13. eph3Nine

    eph3Nine Mid Acts, Pauline, Dispy to the max!

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    She made it very clear that she was meaning no personal insult to anyone, however, God feels the same way about "religion"...better to be offended HERE and to re examine the basis for ones belief system , than to get before God and have HIM tell ya.

    I dont consider challenging people to THINK and to examine the scriptures to be a stumblingblock. BLIND FAITH with no basis in fact scares me alot more, and thats what MOST people call "faith". If we arent trusting what GOD tells us is His criteria today, then what good will all the faith in the world DO? It is simply MISPLACED FAITH, and God calls this IGNORANCE, and warns us NOT to be found in that category.

    He has given us ALL the information WE need. ALL of it is interesting, all of it true, but not all of it is true FOR us. We need to KNOW where the information IS for we , the church, which is His Body. If we dont know, we make fools not only of ourselves, but of Gods Will for today. NO ambassador worth his salt spreads around obsolete information when the latest material has BEEN provided. God has provided it. He says...dont preach "another gospel"...the other gospel that is NOT the same as the NEW ONE revealed to Paul FOR us. What more can He do?
     
  14. eph3Nine

    eph3Nine Mid Acts, Pauline, Dispy to the max!

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    Respect can be shown to the PERSON without giving credence to their erroneous belief systems. Religious claptrap is what will send MOST nice people to hell, are you aware of that? Why not call it what it is? Its NOT nice, its NOT good, and its actually seriously dangerous to ones spiritual health. Why pretend that its OK what some people choose to believe? Its NOT...its going to send them somewhere they dont want to go. I will risk having someone angry with me NOW, RATHER than to face their finger pointing in my face saying "YOU KNEW, and you didnt tell me because you thot it would HURT MY FEELINGS??????"

    Thats not love, OR respect. Thats self centeredness and cowardice. True LOVE tells folks the truth, hoping they will be jarred OUT of their "comfort zone" long enuff to actually LOOK at what Gods Word REALLY SAYS.

    Paying no attention to what someone tells you, just because they didnt approach you right, or make you FEEL GOOD , is a really bad way to live. Truth is Truth, no matter who tells you. YOU will be held accountable for hearing it, and coming up with the excuse that " I didnt like the way they said it", or "it hurt my feelings"...isnt going to absolve ANYONE of REJECTING TRUTH.
     
  15. TubaFour

    TubaFour Reformed

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    Xenia,

    I couldn't agree with you more. I am Amil also, and see this discussion on 1000 years being literal as rather amazing actually.

    I'd like to know of you who believe in a literal 1000 years, are these words/concepts also literal?

    1) the key;

    2) the bottomless pit;

    3) a great chain;

    4) the dragon;

    5) that ancient serpent; and

    6) bound him (is that a physical literal binding with a rope/chain?) (Can you actually bind a spirit with a chain?)

    For someone to insist (to the point of calling others enemies of the word of God) on a literal interpretation of 1000 years, when the entire passage is full of imagery, not to mention the entire book, is irresponsible. That only means that millions of bible believing Christians who have gone before us (some dying for their faith) are enemies of the word of God. I have one thing to say:

    Balderdash!!

    Flame on!!

    aL
     
  16. eph3Nine

    eph3Nine Mid Acts, Pauline, Dispy to the max!

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    We are NOT in the Millenium now! Christ is NOT ruling. If He is, He owes us all a big apology.

    My Bible tells me that the "god of this world" is doin his number today, and that his ministers present themselves as angels of LIGHT and ministers of righteousness. No wonder so many are deceived and sucked into these religious claptrap belief systems.....If you dont rightly divide as God tells you to, you will be ever confused and misinformed.
     
  17. TubaFour

    TubaFour Reformed

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    Eph3,

    God owes us nothing but judgment.

    aL
     
  18. holdon

    holdon Well-Known Member

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    If have nothing against a figurative interpretation even of the 1000 years, if there is a good reason for it.
    But when you ask that 1000 years maybe 1007, then you transgress the boundary of taking God at His Word. Because whether the 1000 years are figurative or not, they are still 1000 years, NOT 1007 years...
     
  19. TubaFour

    TubaFour Reformed

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    Understood!

    aL
     
  20. twoedge

    twoedge New Member

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    Hmmmmm???

    B- 123 - 'If you are looking for the second coming of Christ to earth WITHOUT the rapture of the church the body of Christ taking place first...... then your are looking for the ANTI-CHRIST.

    We the body of Christ will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air BEFORE the great tribulation begins...and when we are gone.... the Antichrist will come on the scene... and he will deceive.'

    Doesn't seem to line up with this...

    ' Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes FIRST, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
    Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming ( Hardly a secret rapture! ) 2 Thess 2

    2e

    P.S Dispy, haven't forgotten.
     
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