Regeneration before faith?

[Brightfame52]

Another scripture passage that indicates that believing on Christ is the evidence of having been born again is Jn 8: 43 ,47

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

In order to hear Gods words spiritually ye must be of God Jesus says, which I believe means born of God.

Now since Faith cometh into manifestation/activity by hearing the Word of God as per Rom 10:17

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

It is reasonably concluded that being born of God first evidences the Hearing of Faith/Word of Faith or of God ! Also when Paul writes of the Hearing of Faith Gal 3:2,5


This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith

The hearing of Faith is possible only by the born of God !

 

[Brightfame52]

The verse says:

Elect (chosen) UNTO obedience. There it is, straightforward.

Believers are chosen UNTO obedience, not salvation. Obedience is service.

Unbelievers are chosen to obedience, obedience of Faith ! Which is Salvation. Man naturally is imprisoned in disobedience Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The word unbelief here is the greek word apeitheia which means:

1. obstinacy, obstinate opposition to the divine will
   
   
2. Its translated disobedience 3 times:

Rom 11:30

Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience,

Eph 2:2

in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient

Eph 5:6

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient.

For God to have mercy on the unbelieving disobedient is their Salvation and they are made obedient !

 

[Hammster]

The reason no Scripture was given on this is because there are none.

In fact, the Bible clearly shows that faith precedes regeneration.

Eph 2:5 - made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Just looking at the context of the verse should show that regeneration precedes faith.


And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
— Ephesians 2:1-5

Paul is explicit that we are dead in sin, and living like heathens. We know from Romans 6 that one is either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. And please note that slaves don’t get to choose who their slave owner is. Also, in Romans 5, one is in Adam or in Christ. Romans 8 says we are in the flesh or in the Spirit and those in the flesh cannot please God. All of this together shows how dead we are. And the only way to not be dead is to be born again. We need to be made alive. That’s what he’s saying in verse 5.

Now, verse 8 does say that we are saved by grace through faith. Thankfully, Paul explains what is meant by this in Romans 4. We are justified by faith. So looking at this passage, and knowing how Paul thinks, he is saying that we are dead in our sins, Christ makes us alive, we place our faith in Christ, and are justified.

 

[Brightfame52]

hammster

So looking at this passage, and knowing how Paul thinks, he is saying that we are dead in our sins, Christ makes us alive, we place our faith in Christ, and are justified.

I see where u coming from. That said, you agree one is made alive Spiritually prior to placing their Faith in Christ correct ?

 

[Hammster]

hammster


I see where u coming from. That said, you agree one is made alive Spiritually prior to placing their Faith in Christ correct ?

Yes.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes.

I understand that. So do you believe that one is Justified before God before they put faith in Christ?

 

[Hammster]

I understand that. So do you believe that one is Justified before God before they put faith in Christ?

No, we are justified by faith.

 

[Brightfame52]

No, we are justified by faith.

Of course there"s Justification by Faith Rom 5:1, but you said one is a born again person prior to faith correct ?

 

[Hammster]

Of course there"s Justification by Faith Rom 5:1, but you said one is a born again person prior to faith correct ?

Yes, that’s correct.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes, that’s correct.

So is a born again person, a new creature unjustified before God ?

 

[Hammster]

So is a born again person, a new creature unjustified before God ?

Until they place their faith in Christ, yes.

 

[Brightfame52]

Until they place their faith in Christ, yes.

That sounds strange for a new creation in Christ to be under Gods condemnation.

 

[Hammster]

That sounds strange for a new creation in Christ to be under Gods condemnation.

Do you believe we are justified before faith?

 

[Brightfame52]

Do you believe we are justified before faith?

Yes, by the blood of Christ Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

You dont believe a person Christ shed His Blood for, made a new creation is Justified before God before they believe ?

 

[Hammster]

Yes, by the blood of Christ Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

You dont believe a person Christ shed His Blood for, made a new creation is Justified before God before they believe ?

You skipped chapter 4.

 

[Brightfame52]

You skipped chapter 4.

No I didn't. In fact Rom 4:25 confirms that the resurrection is an evidence of the Justification of those Christ was delivered unto death on account of their sins:

Who was delivered for[on account of] our offences, and was raised again for[on account of] our justification.

Did you know that's what the resurrection of Christ affirmed or gave recognition to ?

 

[Hammster]

No I didn't. In fact Rom 4:25 confirms that the resurrection is an evidence of the Justification of those Christ was delivered unto death on account of their sins:

Who was delivered for[on account of] our offences, and was raised again for[on account of] our justification.

Did you know that's what the resurrection of Christ affirmed or gave recognition to ?

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
— Romans 4:1-5

We are justified by faith because of the blood of Christ. We actually pass from death to life. We are regenerated and then we believe into righteousness. This is the logical order, though temporally it may all happen at the same time.

 

[Brightfame52]

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
— Romans 4:1-5

We are justified by faith because of the blood of Christ. We actually pass from death to life. We are regenerated and then we believe into righteousness. This is the logical order, though temporally it may all happen at the same time.

Okay you can quote scripture, thats good. In Rom 4:25 what does the resurrection testify to ?

 

[Hammster]

Okay you can quote scripture, thats good. In Rom 4:25 what does the resurrection testify to ?

I think we are done here. I was enjoying the discussion.

 

[Brightfame52]

I think we are done here. I was enjoying the discussion.

Take care !