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Featured Regarding Roman Catholic view on "bad popes"

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by GaveMeJoy, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. GaveMeJoy

    GaveMeJoy Well-Known Member

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    Hello,
    I came across a wikipedia article about a book entitled "The Bad Popes" by someone named Chamberlain. I'm sure it's a huge derogatory slamfest on Catholics, which I don't support and I would never read. However, the following information is presented in the wikipedia article regarding specific popes below. Are the facts below from Wikipedia disputed or accepted?

    Respectfully (as possible regarding this subject)
    -J

     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
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  2. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I went to a Catholic college. One priest was understood to be an expert on what is official Roman Catholic belief. One time, during a course he gave on the Church, he said he will not be surprised if there are popes in hell.

    So, if there have been popes who have been obviously evil people, and the Roman Catholic Church did not have power and authority active to stop them and remove them, how can the Roman Catholic Church claim to have the true apostolic succession? Wouldn't the succession need to have really Christian example leaders all along the way? This is more or less what people are asking and arguing.

    I remember that his answer to this is the claim that the apostolic succession of Roman Catholicism is of the position and the authority of popes, and does not depend on their being righteous. I guess you could say it is like how in the United States there have been good presidents but also even evil ones. But the authority and legal office of the presidency has continued, and has not stopped because of certain bad people who have been President; America has not stopped being American because of evil presidents. And democracy is still the Constitutional rule of the land, I guess we could say, though now we see how some number of politicians are not practicing democracy very well.

    There is still the Constitution, though right now ones could feel a lot of politicians are not functioning according to the original purpose and therefore the rightful interpretation of the American Constitution; but it is there for any politician or voter at any time to live by it.

    Maybe, then, likewise, ones would say the Roman Catholic Church is still always ready for anyone who will live according to the official things of Catholicism.

    Also, for that matter > even if a priest is an evil person, still any Catholic can get the full benefits of any sacrament officiated by the priest who is evil . . . but who has been officially prepared and ordained by the Roman Catholic Church. Because each sacrament stands on its own right, maybe we could say.

    This is my rough explanation of what I have been hearing and reading while and after being what I considered to be a Roman Catholic.
     
  3. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    Better off moving this thread to the Catholic section as otherwise its going to end up as yet another one full of Catholic bashing...
     
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  4. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    You said:

    "I remember that his answer to this is the claim that the apostolic succession of Roman Catholicism is of the position and the authority of popes, and does not depend on their being righteous."

    That is what Jesus said about it as well:

    Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples,

    Mat 23:2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.

    Mat 23:3 “Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.
     
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  5. Peter J Barban

    Peter J Barban Well-Known Member

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    I grew up Catholic and this is my understanding, too.
     
  6. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    Popes are men good and bad, done deal. Either you roll with it as a RC or leave if you can't stand the system.. Life is too short to agonize over something that is out of your control anyway, let God deal with it, which He will do in His own perfect timing.
     
  7. GaveMeJoy

    GaveMeJoy Well-Known Member

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    How? Unfortunately I can’t find the delete thread function
     
  8. Athanasius377

    Athanasius377 Out of the deep I called unto thee O Lord Supporter

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    Ask the Mods to move the thread.
     
  9. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    I was wondering how long we would have to wait until that message was posted. For it to be Post #3, though, was pretty quick.

    Of course, if the thread is moved to the Catholic forum, that action will protect it against any non-Catholic participating in the discussion (which I assume to be the objective). That's the case even though the OP was simply asking about facts from history.
     
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  10. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's actually an OK book sticking pretty much to the facts. I've read it. I own a copy of it. I go back to it from time to time.

    There have been bad popes. It's just a fact. Dante considered there would be some popes in hell, and probably so.
     
  11. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It didn't take that long for the first of the anti-Catholic posts to show up either. It was inevitable. The first eight posts were no problem though.
     
  12. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Okay. Of course the first complaint about "Catholic bashing" occurred earlier, but I welcome your more reasonable assessment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  13. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    You know exactly the amount of Catholic bashing it will receive here.

    I wonder who those poster are! ;)
     
  14. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I seldom even look at things in 'Denomination Specific Theology' because it is generally a place where bashing is common. If not bashing these guys then bashing those guys. This one thread caught my eye as the original post seemed to be a plain request for information. You are right that these things so often devolve into a hate-fest. I think the thread is basically finished now for any practical or useful purpose having to do with the original request. It might endure for another couple of hundred posts of a much uglier sort though.
     
  15. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    L4w, I don't really see bashing here. Bashing to me is severe wording, I don't see severe wording in this thread anywhere ( yet).
     
  16. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That was about the inevitability of Catholic bashing, not about any Catholic bashing that had already occurred.
     
  17. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Your post was fine. A catholic has to figure out how to come to grips with history, as do all other Christians. Coming to grips with the fact that there have been some bad popes is part of that. It's really not that shocking though, considering the general iniquity of humanity. We've had some bad popes. Popes have no particular guarantee of saintliness, even if we wish they did.
     
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  18. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    I might agree --about the post in question, not about any inevitability of Catholic bashing--if it were not the case that that post or one similar to it is sure to appear in any thread that includes even a hint that someone disagrees with Catholic history, belief, or practice.

    And as Dave G. correctly noted, it doesn't take anything close to actual "bashing" to prompt that complaint.
     
  19. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    Give it a chance! Thread only young! ;)
     
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  20. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    You know very well how these threads turn out my friend. ;)

    Anyway, i aint sticking around.

    God bless you all
     
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