Reformed Theology - Question "How Does God Choose?"

[ToBeLoved]

As I understand Reformed Theology God chooses on the basis of what glorifies himself, not on who the person is or on what they will.

Lol. God doesn't need us to glorify Himself.

All the angels in heaven glorify Him.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Be that as it may, it seems the primary motivating factor behind God's decisions is not our wealth-fare but his glory.

Ok, so then the Father sent His Son to die and be tormented with every sin cast upon Him because the Father wanted a little glory? Do you really believe this stuff your writing and it makes sense to you?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Ok, so then the Father sent His Son to die and be tormented with every sin cast upon Him because the Father wanted a little glory? Do you really believe this stuff your writing and it makes sense to you?

No.

 

[Andy centek]

TobeLoved;

Do you really think that would be the case? God is the glory. All things came from that glory, pureness.
Isa_55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
How can the created question the creator?

Andy Centek

 

[Major1]

Would you also agree that every "elected" person, in heaven, becomes good and perfect?

Since God is perfect and lives in a perfect heaven, the only way for anyone to be in heaven is to be perfect.

1 Corth. 15:51-53............
"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

 

[Major1]

in whose eyes?

HIS!

 

[Major1]

In the eyes of the Reformed it would seem. I don't think I've misrepresented the position of Reformed Churches here in saying that God acts primarily on the basis of what glorifies him. This is why it seems like a belief in double predestination is held, because God's condemning certain people (not for anything they did) contributes his eternal glory. The primary motivating factor is never our agency for what God does in reformed theology but what God desires of us for his uses.

Have you considered the thought that God is reproducing Himself?

Broadly speaking, isn't that what the opening chapters of Genesis tell us?

It seems to me that at the start, God wanted to make sure that we understand where He is headed WITH his Word so that we can start to process all that is going to come along later in His book.

Genesis 1:26 says that we are created in HIS image. That should tell us something right there.

In Genesis 2:15 He tells us to work in the Garden and take care of what He has given us.

In Genesis 2:17 He tells us to make right Godly choices and how to avoid SIN and death.

In Genesis 3:15 He tells us that ALL of us have sinned just like Adam and Eve did. We have ALL found ourselves under the influence of the devil and we ALL need to be saved or redeemed. In this verse God is telling us that there will be a Saviour who will crush Satan's head which means we CAN BE redeemed and brought back onto the right track WITH IS PURPOSE.

It seems to me that what you are asking is laid out for us here in Genesis and then expanded throughout the rest of the Scriptures and tells us God's purpose which IS FOR US TO BE IN HIS IMAGE!

Now to nail that down, consider 2 Corinthians 3:18.............
"But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord."

Is that not saying that we are being changed from glory to glory, from the glory of man to the glory of God?

 

[Albion]

In the eyes of the Reformed it would seem. I don't think I've misrepresented the position of Reformed Churches here in saying that God acts primarily on the basis of what glorifies him. This is why it seems like a belief in double predestination is held, because God's condemning certain people (not for anything they did) contributes his eternal glory. The primary motivating factor is never our agency for what God does in reformed theology but what God desires of us for his uses.

Look at it this way: God doesn't condemn anyone "not for anything they did." No one is condemned except for the transgressions he committed.

If you are not among the Elect, you cannot take the view that you lived a life completely free of any wrongdoing. And as for God's glory, he is not only Love but he is also Just, so for Him to respond to evil/sin with a celestial wink would not be Just.

 

[Major1]

Look at it this way: God doesn't condemn anyone "not for anything they did." No one is condemned except for the transgressions he committed.

If you are not among the Elect, you cannot take the view that you lived a life completely free of any wrongdoing. And as for God's glory, he is not only Love but he is also Just, so for Him to respond to evil/sin with a celestial wink would not be Just.

Everybody knows and quotes John 3:16. However John 3:18 sheds a little more light on the subject and it confirms what you just posted..

John 3:18.........
"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

 

[ToBeLoved]

TobeLoved;

Do you really think that would be the case? God is the glory. All things came from that glory, pureness.
Isa_55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
How can the created question the creator?

Andy Centek

I don't really see how the verse is against what I said.

Maybe go back and read the specific point and response to anothers post and you will see my intention.

 

[Andy centek]

Since God is perfect and lives in a perfect heaven, the only way for anyone to be in heaven is to be perfect.

1 Corth. 15:51-53............
"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

 

[Andy centek]

Hello MAjor1:

There is only ONE perfect, That is God. When I used the form of God (Jehovah Elohim), I exclude mankind and other gods. Paul said that Satan is the god of this world.
Study the scriptures about who is perfect and who is mad acceptable. We, those seeking to walk in the spiritual light of Christ Jesus are by the Holy Spirit's work, made acceptable unto God.

If you need more help on this matter afterwards, i will be glad to go deeper.

Andy Centek

 

[Major1]

Hello MAjor1:

There is only ONE perfect, That is God. When I used the form of God (Jehovah Elohim), I exclude mankind and other gods. Paul said that Satan is the god of this world.
Study the scriptures about who is perfect and who is mad acceptable. We, those seeking to walk in the spiritual light of Christ Jesus are by the Holy Spirit's work, made acceptable unto God.

If you need more help on this matter afterwards, i will be glad to go deeper.

Andy Centek

Thank you for the offer Andy. I do think I have an idea of what you are saying.

You are correct in that there is One God made up of 3 persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

I also agree that we are made acceptable in the beloved who is of course the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:5.....
"By faith we have been made acceptable to God. And now, because of our Lord Jesus Christ, we live at peace with God."

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Look at it this way: God doesn't condemn anyone "not for anything they did." No one is condemned except for the transgressions he committed.

If you are not among the Elect, you cannot take the view that you lived a life completely free of any wrongdoing. And as for God's glory, he is not only Love but he is also Just, so for Him to respond to evil/sin with a celestial wink would not be Just.

It seems to me since God in reformed theology has first decreed before the person even existed that they are condemned to damnation that it makes little sense to suggest God simply judging them according to their works. If that were the case, all should be condemned because all are sinners, yet the reformed tradition insists (to it's own detriment) that God has fore-ordained some to salvation and some to damnation. Just as those who are saved not on the basis of their works, but God's eternal decree it seems just the same with those who are damned. Without any respect to the person, who they are or what they are God either saves them or damns them.

Personally I do not see the justice in such a conception.

 

[Albion]

It seems to me since God in reformed theology has first decreed before the person even existed that they are condemned to damnation that it makes little sense to suggest God simply judging them according to their works.

They're not condemned on account of their works or lack of (good) works but on account of their sins. If they are not among the Elect, it isn't the case that he's sentencing someone to damnation who was otherwise blameless.

If that were the case, all should be condemned because all are sinners, yet the reformed tradition insists (to it's own detriment) that God has fore-ordained some to salvation and some to damnation.

Well, you're speaking there of double predestination. Most Reformed Christians do not accept the concept of double predestination.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

They're not condemned on account of their works or lack of (good) works but on account of their sins. If they are not among the Elect, it isn't the case that he's sentencing someone to damnation who was otherwise blameless.


Well, you're speaking there of double predestination. Most Reformed Christians do not accept the concept of double predestination.

I hope that isn't the case.

 

[Albion]

You're hoping that most Reformed churches teach Double Predestination rather than Single Predestination?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

You're hoping that most Reformed churches teach Double Predestination rather than Single Predestination?

I hope that is the case I mean. Apologies.

I would like to know how it is the reformed mostly reject Calvin's notion of double predestination which is enshrined in the Westminster confession. Do most reformed Churches not adhere to the Westminster confession?

 

[Albion]

Neither Calvin himself nor the Westminster Confession taught double predestination.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Neither Calvin himself nor the Westminster Confession taught double predestination.

Westminster confession. Chapter III, article III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels[6] are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.[7]

IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated, and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.[8]

It sounds like double predestination to me.

Also if Calvin denied that God fore-ordains the reprobate what is he arguing regarding them in this?

http://www.chapellibrary.org/files/8014/9220/2239/copa.pdf