Reformed guy interested in Lutheranism has questions

MichaelNZ

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So I've been attending a Reformed church for almost the last 4 years and have come to understand a bit of Reformed theology. However, last Saturday I visited a Lutheran church on vacation and really liked it, even though the pastor was sick and there wasn't Communion. Being a former traditionalist Roman Catholic, I am definitely drawn to the external elements, and I also like a church that follows the Church Year.

I have read a bit about Lutheran theology (although I intend to read the Book of Concord and Mueller's Christian Dogmatics) and I have some questions about it.

Is it true that Lutherans believe that a born-again, regenerate believer in Christ can lose their salvation? How does that work? What about Christ's promise that no-one can snatch His sheep out of His and His Father's hand (John 10:27-29)? And how does that tie in with 1 John 5:13 and knowing that one has eternal life?

Thanks in advance for the replies!
 
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ViaCrucis

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So I've been attending a Reformed church for almost the last 4 years and have come to understand a bit of Reformed theology. However, last Saturday I visited a Lutheran church on vacation and really liked it, even though the pastor was sick and there wasn't Communion. Being a former traditionalist Roman Catholic, I am definitely drawn to the external elements, and I also like a church that follows the Church Year.

I have read a bit about Lutheran theology (although I intend to read the Book of Concord and Mueller's Christian Dogmatics) and I have some questions about it.

Is it true that Lutherans believe that a born-again, regenerate believer in Christ can lose their salvation? How does that work? What about Christ's promise that no-one can snatch His sheep out of His and His Father's hand (John 10:27-29)? And how does that tie in with 1 John 5:13 and knowing that one has eternal life?

Thanks in advance for the replies!

I don't know if "lose" is the right word, but yes a Christian can renounce, reject, turn away, and shipwreck their faith, and thus their salvation. The promises of God in the Gospel, such as that no one can snatch His sheep from His hand and other similar promises bring us comfort so that we can have assurance in Christ that we are His, God has made it so, by the preaching of the Word, in the Sacraments, etc we are truly Christ's and Christ is ours, and no one can rob us of that. But Scripture also warns against falling away, against shipwrecking our faith, and so yes it is entirely possible that we might, having believed and trusted in the Lord, turn away, reject that faith, and abandon Christ.

Our assurance is found in Christ, in the faith which God has graciously created in us we cleave to the Lord in trust and hope, and He is utterly faithful--so we can say, with confidence, that we are saved, we belong to God, that we have been baptized, etc. That hope stands against every wind of doubt, every whisper of the devil, we are Christ's.

One of the key differences between Lutheran and Reformed theology is that we Lutherans don't believe in Irresistable Grace, we can resist God's grace. Where in Reformed though the elect cannot by any means refuse God's grace, as they have been predestined to salvation and there is nothing they can do one way or the other; the Lutheran position is that the human will being turned away from God and toward sin always chooses to oppose God, to refuse His mercy. When we hear the Gospel, when we are brought into the waters of Baptism; when the Spirit works upon us to create faith in us and turn us toward Himself we can, indeed refuse and reject. In salvation we are passive recipients of God's mercy; however damnation is the result of our own active will.

No one is damned who does not choose to be damned.
Everyone who is saved is saved because God, in His unfathomable mercy, saved them apart from and in spite of themselves.

The natural man desires his own damnation.
God, in His kindness, rescues man and makes Him new in Christ.

As Christians we remain simul iustus et peccator, at once both saint and sinner; and thus the old man and the new wage a constant battle. The old man desires sin and his own damnation, the new man--the new creation in Christ Jesus--is dead to sin and alive to God. And thus that is why as Christians we are called to daily drown and kill the old man in repentance--this is why the Word is continually preached, why the Sacraments administered--that the old man might die and the new man might live.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Andrewofthetribe

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So I've been attending a Reformed church for almost the last 4 years and have come to understand a bit of Reformed theology. However, last Saturday I visited a Lutheran church on vacation and really liked it, even though the pastor was sick and there wasn't Communion. Being a former traditionalist Roman Catholic, I am definitely drawn to the external elements, and I also like a church that follows the Church Year.

I have read a bit about Lutheran theology (although I intend to read the Book of Concord and Mueller's Christian Dogmatics) and I have some questions about it.

Is it true that Lutherans believe that a born-again, regenerate believer in Christ can lose their salvation? How does that work? What about Christ's promise that no-one can snatch His sheep out of His and His Father's hand (John 10:27-29)? And how does that tie in with 1 John 5:13 and knowing that one has eternal life?

Thanks in advance for the replies!
Why did you leave the catholic faithful?
 
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Tigger45

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Apologies.
No problem brother. I didn't think you were preaching hate I only wanted to be proactive to avoid problems down the road.

Glad to have you aboard!
 
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MichaelNZ

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Mountianmike, I am familiar with the arguments in favour of Roman Catholicism that you have posted. You eisegete (read into) Scripture rather than exegete. For example, if you look carefully at Matthew 16:18 you will notice that 1) Christ says he will give Peter the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, not that He is giving them right now, and 2) The verse says nothing about a successor to Peter who will inherit such keys and power. If you go to my blog, Apologetica Christiana, you will see some of my threads addressing certain teachings of Roman Catholicism. I do know what I'm talking about.

Would it be possible to get the thread back on track? I'm interested to hear how Lutherans say that a born-again, regenerate Christian who has been adopted as a child of God can be made unborn-again, unregenerate and unadopted as a child of God.

Apart from this issue I really like Lutheranism.
 
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MichaelNZ

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Would holding to the view of eternal security/perseverance of the saints hinder me from being accepted into membership or communion in a conservative Lutheran church like the LCMS/WELS (if I can eventually make it to the US)?
 
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Tangible

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Would it be possible to get the thread back on track? I'm interested to hear how Lutherans say that a born-again, regenerate Christian who has been adopted as a child of God can be made unborn-again, unregenerate and unadopted as a child of God.

Apart from this issue I really like Lutheranism.
Here is a brief but thorough discussion of the Doctrine of Election as confessed by Lutherans.

The Doctrine of Election: A Lutheran Note by David Scaer

The Confessional citations may be checked in context at bookofconcord.org
 
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