Reformed Baptist Question

[Gideon4God]

What is the history of Reformed Baptists?  Last night in Bible study I notice Spurgens name came up alot, just wondering.  How are they viewed by other Reformed churches?

Gideon

 

[Gabriel]

I don't know much about their history. The only difference I know of between Reformed Baptists and other Reformed faiths is that Baptists don't believe in infant baptism. This is not to say that that is the only difference, it's just the only one I know of.

If you were to do a search on Google for Reformed Baptist History, you would probably find some answers.

 

[Gerry]

I do know a few Baptists who need to be in Reform School.

 

[Blackhawk]

I am a Baptist and I do not know tons about Baptist history. (haven't taken the class in seminary yet) But from what I know we come from the Zwinglian wing of the Reformed tradition. That is we come through his students, the AnaBaptists, who later were persecuted by Zwingli. I think he persecuted them because they did not believe in infant baptism. Anyways one of the AnaBaptists, I believe his name was Felix Manz, became the first Christian Matyr that was killed by a protestant. I really do not have much more information than that. We are part of the left wing of the reformed tradition. But because of our heritage we do not believe in the real presence of Jesus in communion and we do not believe in infant baptism. I think those are the two main points that seperate us from most of the reformed churches today who took their cue more from Calvin.

 

[Gabriel]

Today at 05:40 PM Blackhawk said this in Post #4

But because of our heritage we do not believe in the real presence of Jesus in communion.

We don't believe that either, none of the reformed churches do. Other protestants may, but reformed protestants don't.

I think those are the two main points that seperate us from most of the reformed churches today who took their cue more from Calvin.

Actually, we take our cues from the bible. The Presbyterian Church was formed in Scotland by John Knox. John Calvin did preach and teach predestination and election, but never that the bread become the body or the wine became the blood. They were and still are considered symbolic.

 

[Blackhawk]

Yesterday at 01:10 AM Gabriel said this in Post #5

We don't believe that either, none of the reformed churches do. Other protestants may, but reformed protestants don't.

Really? Because RC Sproul does and when he was going over the Westminister Cathecism he said it states a belief in it.  It is a spiritual presence but it is a real presence. That is what he said.  At least that is what he was saying that the presbyerians believe.  So no the reformed church does not believe in Christ's presence in communion like the RCC (Transubstatiation) do nor how the Lutherans (Consubstantiation) do which are both not a spiritual presence but that it is a real presence.  Was RC wrong?  I am not a presbyterian so I will not claim that I am right but I find RC to be a very credible witness of reformed beliefs. 

Actually, we take our cues from the bible. The Presbyterian Church was formed in Scotland by John Knox. John Calvin did preach and teach predestination and election, but never that the bread become the body or the wine became the blood. They were and still are considered symbolic.

Hey we all take our cues from the Bible.  I am speaking about tradition here.  And I am not putting down the Reformed church at all.  My beliefs are very reformed in nature even though I am not a 5 point Calvinist.  But I have been taught and have read that Calvin is the main influence in the reformed church today.  So that is why I made my statement about the reforemd tradition taking their cues from Calvin. Hmm I will have to listen to my RC Sproul CD again. 

 

[Gabriel]

Blackhawk,

I should have been more clear in my explanation. This I agree with:

It is a spiritual presence but it is a real presence. .............So no the reformed church does not believe in Christ's presence in communion like the RCC (Transubstatiation) do nor how the Lutherans (Consubstantiation) do which are both not a spiritual presence but that it is a real presence.

I should have made that more clear.

I didn't intend on coming across as cocky as I sounded when I made the "cues from the bible" statement. I was just attempting to point out that our views on election/predestination, total depravity, etc. are from the bible. Calvin just pointed them out during a time when most folks had no idea concerning this doctrine. The reason I personally shy away from the Calvinist title is this. By the grace of God, I spent alot of time in scripture and cross referencing scripture with scripture and saw the truth of "Reformed" doctrine before I even knew that there was a "Reformed" doctrine. I thought all Protestants were the same with minor exceptions in church government and worship style.

 

[rnmomof7]

17th April 2003 at 06:31 PM Gideon4God said this in Post #1

What is the history of Reformed Baptists?  Last night in Bible study I notice Spurgens name came up alot, just wondering.  How are they viewed by other Reformed churches?

Gideon

Early Baptists were indeed Calvinists here is a link to the early confessions ..1644 and 1689 are the ones generally used in Reform baptist churches today


http://www.mtsbc.org/old_baptist_documents1.htm

http://www.founders.org/

 

[rnmomof7]

20th April 2003 at 08:10 PM Gabriel said this in Post #5

We don't believe that either, none of the reformed churches do. Other protestants may, but reformed protestants don't.

Actually, we take our cues from the bible. The Presbyterian Church was formed in Scotland by John Knox. John Calvin did preach and teach predestination and election, but never that the bread become the body or the wine became the blood. They were and still are considered symbolic.

I have a question on that gabriel

I was saved out of the church that teaches real presence..

I understood the fallacy of that doctrine but I had a difficult time viewing it as a "rememberance " only

I read an article that the reform position of Calvin was that there is a spiritual presence of Christ in the communion (as opposed to it being "only" a "memorial" or a physical presence)

Is that your understaning of the difference between Baptist doctrine and Presbyterian?

 

[SemperReformanda]

Gideon4God

How are they viewed by other Reformed churches?

They're generally viewed with great affection. Reformed Baptists have been stalwart defenders of the Gospel, and amazing missionaries. My team leader here in Ukraine just returned from a conference in Belarus celebrating 450 years of the Reformation in that country. Represented at that conference were Reformed Baptists, Dutch Reformed, Presbyterians and Anglicans. A very cool and worshipful time, from what he's told me.

Last night in Bible study I notice Spurgeons name came up alot, just wondering._

Spurgeon is only one of a host of Baptist "greats" who were solid Calvinists. All four of the fathers of modern Baptist missionary work were Calvinists--William Carey, Luther Rice, Andrew Fuller and Adoniram Judson. So was Strong, from Straong's concordance. So was Boyce, the founder of the SBC's flagship seminary. So was the great AW Pink. So is John Piper. And D.A. Carson. And so on... Most of the best that has been thought or written by Baptists has come from Reformed pens... (I'm not being prideful in this, /I/ certainly didn't write any of it! )

What is the history of Reformed Baptists?_

It's 3 a.m. over here, so I can only give a thumbnail history. Both Calvinist and Arminian Baptists as we understand them in the US sprang up about the same time in England. This was largely separate from the Anabaptist phenomenon on the Continent. The Calvinist Baptists were called "Particular" while the Arminian were called "General."

Both strains came to America, but they were tiny compared to the Presbyterian, Anglican and Congregational Churches. Especially the Arminian strain. As I said on another thread, about 95% of Americans were of Reformed stock at the time of the Revolution.

Baptists exploded in number after the Revolution. Both types. In the South there was a mix but with an initially strong Arminian influence, while the north was largely Calvinist. This changed over time, especially as educated pastors from the North established seminaries and schools in the South. James Boyce was a good example. He was educated at Princeton, the flagship of Calvinism in North America and the center of the fight against Liberalism. He brought these views south with him and established Southern Baptist Seminary. Interestingly, probably the most brilliant Baptist Calvinist in a century is the president of that school now-- Al Mohler. In England, the main confessions of Baptist belief were Calvinist. The same is true in the States. The "Philadelphia Confession" was the most widely accepted statement of belief for Baptists up until this century. It is intensely Reformed.

Reformed beliefs are growing across the denominational spectrum in America, and the world. Not only are American Reformed missions works growing like crazy, 2/3rds of the Protestants in Korea are Presbyterian. Their missionaries are setting the world on fire. We actually have a Korean run Reformed seminary right here in Kiev.

For more information on Baptist history (particularly the Reformed contributions to it) and on contemporary Reformed Baptist belief, pop over to www.founders.org

Please understand that this has been written off the top of my head. There may be a small error or so that's slipped in. It's 3 am here, so I ask for grace for any mistakes...

Blessings,
John

 

[Reformationist]

John, I do so love reading your posts. Truly you are a grace from God.

 

[Jerry_M]

John,

You did a great job in describing the history and current status of Reformed Baptists.

I especially enjoyed the "viewed with affection", since it mirrors my same feelings towards those who are fortunate enough to be Reformed, but not so fortunate as to be Baptists!

However, the rest of you will come to see the error of your ways in the presence of Christ, and will all then proudly claim to be Baptists.