Reflections on Luke 8:22-8:56

samiam

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My local church group has been studying Luke via Zoom, which is my favorite book of the Holy Bible. We have been studying for a few weeks now, and I wrote some notes for the Bible Study, going from Luke 8:22 to Luke 8:56

8:22-8:25

Now it happened on one of those days, that he entered into a boat, himself and his disciples, and he said to them, “Let’s go over to the other side of the lake.” So they launched out. But as they sailed, he fell asleep. A wind storm came down on the lake, and they were taking on dangerous amounts of water. They came to him, and awoke him, saying, “Master, master, we are dying!” He awoke, and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water, and they ceased, and it was calm. He said to them, “Where is your faith?” Being afraid they marveled, saying one to another, “Who is this, then, that he commands even the winds and the water, and they obey him?”

I see Jesus as being irritated that they woke him up to do something they themselves could had done if they had enough faith (stop the storm). My pastor, in tonight’s study, saw it as Jesus being upset that they thought he couldn’t rescue him just because He was sleeping.

My notes: Yes, we do have the power to control the weather. It takes faith in science, moving away from fossil fuels, and using more renewable sources of energy.

Also, I think fusion is still something we need to explore, because if we can figure out fusion, that’s infinite power without nearly as many issues as fission (which, yes, is infinite power as long as we have uranium, but leaves some really messy stuff which takes 30,000 years to clean itself up).

8:26 - 8:39

They arrived at the country of the Gadarenes, which is opposite Galilee.

When Jesus stepped ashore, a certain man out of the city who had demons for a long time met him. He wore no clothes, and didn’t live in a house, but in the tombs. When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, “What do I have to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torment me!” For Jesus was commanding the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For the unclean spirit had often seized the man. He was kept under guard, and bound with chains and fetters. Breaking the bands apart, he was driven by the demon into the desert.

Jesus asked him, “What is your name?”

He said, “Legion,” for many demons had entered into him. They begged him that he would not command them to go into the abyss. Now there was there a herd of many pigs feeding on the mountain, and they begged him that he would allow them to enter into those. He allowed them. The demons came out from the man, and entered into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake, and were drowned. When those who fed them saw what had happened, they fled, and told it in the city and in the country.

People went out to see what had happened. They came to Jesus, and found the man from whom the demons had gone out, sitting at Jesus’ feet, clothed and in his right mind; and they were afraid. Those who saw it told them how he who had been possessed by demons was healed. All the people of the surrounding country of the Gadarenes asked him to depart from them, for they were very much afraid. He entered into the boat, and returned. But the man from whom the demons had gone out begged him that he might go with him, but Jesus sent him away, saying, “Return to your house, and declare what great things God has done for you.” He went his way, proclaiming throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done for him.

Our pastor helped us visualize this story by describing the Golan Heights (near where this event occurred) and what the place looks like. It looks like this: Golan Heights - Wikipedia

I will always visualize the scene in the 1979 Jesus movie when reading this.

It seems unusual that Jesus would allow these demons to kill all of those pigs. We can brush it off with a “God’s thoughts are not our thoughts” evasion, but I think it might make more sense that this event never happened, and this is another parable. In more detail, it’s a backhanded criticism of the Roman occupation: Legion is the Roman legions, and they are worse than swine (pigs). See also:
Did Jesus Kill 2000 Pigs?

I will note that, as we get to the passion narrative later on, Luke (and the other gospel writers) go to a lot of effort to place the blame for Jesus’s death with the Pharisees and Sadducees and not with the Romans. Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ takes the opposite approach, painting the Roman soldiers as cruel and inhumane in their torment of Jesus.

8:43-8:48 (I am jumping around because this is one story inside another story)

A woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years, who had spent all her living on physicians, and could not be healed by any, came behind him, and touched the fringe of his cloak, and immediately the flow of her blood stopped. Jesus said, “Who touched me?”

When all denied it, Peter and those with him said, “Master, the multitudes press and jostle you, and you say, ‘Who touched me?’”

But Jesus said, “Someone did touch me, for I perceived that power has gone out of me.” When the woman saw that she was not hidden, she came trembling, and falling down before him declared to him in the presence of all the people the reason why she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately. He said to her, “Daughter, cheer up. Your faith has made you well. Go in peace.”

I always found it very interesting that Jesus’s healing power is something which he could feel in his being spiritually, to the point he could feel it leaving him every time someone miraculously got healed by him.

We learn relatively little about the exact nature of Jesus’s magical power, except that anyone with sufficient faith can have it, and that it allows one to invoke God to control the evil spirits which cause illness. But, here we see it’s a tangible “energy field”, if you will, that the healer can feel.

This is where I give you my “God’s ways are mysterious, and His thinking is not my thinking” cop out.

Usually, when someone is healed by Jesus, it’s their own faith that heals them, but here it’s the power Jesus has as God made flesh that heals the woman.

8:40-8:56 (excluding 43-48)


It happened, when Jesus returned, that the multitude welcomed him, for they were all waiting for him. Behold, there came a man named Jairus, and he was a ruler of the synagogue. He fell down at Jesus’ feet, and begged him to come into his house, for he had an only daughter, about twelve years of age, and she was dying. But as he went, the multitudes pressed against him. [...]

While he still spoke, one from the ruler of the synagogue’s house came, saying to him, “Your daughter is dead. Don’t trouble the Teacher.”

But Jesus hearing it, answered him, “Don’t be afraid. Only believe, and she will be healed.”

When he came to the house, he didn’t allow anyone to enter in, except Peter, John, James, the father of the child, and her mother. All were weeping and mourning her, but he said, “Don’t weep. She isn’t dead, but sleeping.”

They were ridiculing him, knowing that she was dead. But he put them all outside, and taking her by the hand, he called, saying, “Child, arise!” Her spirit returned, and she rose up immediately. He commanded that something be given to her to eat. Her parents were amazed, but he commanded them to tell no one what had been done.

God’s power is not only incomprehensible to me, but it’s incomprehensible and scary for people without faith. I remember, when I was an atheist, indications of God’s power and might scared me; thankfully, God had other plans and brought me to Him.

I bring this up because of Luke 8:53, where they mock Jesus--this ridicule comes from a knowledge and fear of God’s power.

We can fear God’s power. We can mock it. But our fears and our mockery do not change God’s nature. Better to accept the reality of God than to deny it.

(All Bible translations from the Public Domain World English Bible)
 

dqhall

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My local church group has been studying Luke via Zoom, which is my favorite book of the Holy Bible. We have been studying for a few weeks now, and I wrote some notes for the Bible Study, going from Luke 8:22 to Luke 8:56

8:22-8:25

Now it happened on one of those days, that he entered into a boat, himself and his disciples, and he said to them, “Let’s go over to the other side of the lake.” So they launched out. But as they sailed, he fell asleep. A wind storm came down on the lake, and they were taking on dangerous amounts of water. They came to him, and awoke him, saying, “Master, master, we are dying!” He awoke, and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water, and they ceased, and it was calm. He said to them, “Where is your faith?” Being afraid they marveled, saying one to another, “Who is this, then, that he commands even the winds and the water, and they obey him?”

I see Jesus as being irritated that they woke him up to do something they themselves could had done if they had enough faith (stop the storm). My pastor, in tonight’s study, saw it as Jesus being upset that they thought he couldn’t rescue him just because He was sleeping.

My notes: Yes, we do have the power to control the weather. It takes faith in science, moving away from fossil fuels, and using more renewable sources of energy.

Also, I think fusion is still something we need to explore, because if we can figure out fusion, that’s infinite power without nearly as many issues as fission (which, yes, is infinite power as long as we have uranium, but leaves some really messy stuff which takes 30,000 years to clean itself up).

8:26 - 8:39

They arrived at the country of the Gadarenes, which is opposite Galilee.

When Jesus stepped ashore, a certain man out of the city who had demons for a long time met him. He wore no clothes, and didn’t live in a house, but in the tombs. When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, “What do I have to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torment me!” For Jesus was commanding the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For the unclean spirit had often seized the man. He was kept under guard, and bound with chains and fetters. Breaking the bands apart, he was driven by the demon into the desert.

Jesus asked him, “What is your name?”

He said, “Legion,” for many demons had entered into him. They begged him that he would not command them to go into the abyss. Now there was there a herd of many pigs feeding on the mountain, and they begged him that he would allow them to enter into those. He allowed them. The demons came out from the man, and entered into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake, and were drowned. When those who fed them saw what had happened, they fled, and told it in the city and in the country.

People went out to see what had happened. They came to Jesus, and found the man from whom the demons had gone out, sitting at Jesus’ feet, clothed and in his right mind; and they were afraid. Those who saw it told them how he who had been possessed by demons was healed. All the people of the surrounding country of the Gadarenes asked him to depart from them, for they were very much afraid. He entered into the boat, and returned. But the man from whom the demons had gone out begged him that he might go with him, but Jesus sent him away, saying, “Return to your house, and declare what great things God has done for you.” He went his way, proclaiming throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done for him.

Our pastor helped us visualize this story by describing the Golan Heights (near where this event occurred) and what the place looks like. It looks like this: Golan Heights - Wikipedia

I will always visualize the scene in the 1979 Jesus movie when reading this.

It seems unusual that Jesus would allow these demons to kill all of those pigs. We can brush it off with a “God’s thoughts are not our thoughts” evasion, but I think it might make more sense that this event never happened, and this is another parable. In more detail, it’s a backhanded criticism of the Roman occupation: Legion is the Roman legions, and they are worse than swine (pigs). See also:
Did Jesus Kill 2000 Pigs?

I will note that, as we get to the passion narrative later on, Luke (and the other gospel writers) go to a lot of effort to place the blame for Jesus’s death with the Pharisees and Sadducees and not with the Romans. Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ takes the opposite approach, painting the Roman soldiers as cruel and inhumane in their torment of Jesus.

8:43-8:48 (I am jumping around because this is one story inside another story)

A woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years, who had spent all her living on physicians, and could not be healed by any, came behind him, and touched the fringe of his cloak, and immediately the flow of her blood stopped. Jesus said, “Who touched me?”

When all denied it, Peter and those with him said, “Master, the multitudes press and jostle you, and you say, ‘Who touched me?’”

But Jesus said, “Someone did touch me, for I perceived that power has gone out of me.” When the woman saw that she was not hidden, she came trembling, and falling down before him declared to him in the presence of all the people the reason why she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately. He said to her, “Daughter, cheer up. Your faith has made you well. Go in peace.”

I always found it very interesting that Jesus’s healing power is something which he could feel in his being spiritually, to the point he could feel it leaving him every time someone miraculously got healed by him.

We learn relatively little about the exact nature of Jesus’s magical power, except that anyone with sufficient faith can have it, and that it allows one to invoke God to control the evil spirits which cause illness. But, here we see it’s a tangible “energy field”, if you will, that the healer can feel.

This is where I give you my “God’s ways are mysterious, and His thinking is not my thinking” cop out.

Usually, when someone is healed by Jesus, it’s their own faith that heals them, but here it’s the power Jesus has as God made flesh that heals the woman.

8:40-8:56 (excluding 43-48)


It happened, when Jesus returned, that the multitude welcomed him, for they were all waiting for him. Behold, there came a man named Jairus, and he was a ruler of the synagogue. He fell down at Jesus’ feet, and begged him to come into his house, for he had an only daughter, about twelve years of age, and she was dying. But as he went, the multitudes pressed against him. [...]

While he still spoke, one from the ruler of the synagogue’s house came, saying to him, “Your daughter is dead. Don’t trouble the Teacher.”

But Jesus hearing it, answered him, “Don’t be afraid. Only believe, and she will be healed.”

When he came to the house, he didn’t allow anyone to enter in, except Peter, John, James, the father of the child, and her mother. All were weeping and mourning her, but he said, “Don’t weep. She isn’t dead, but sleeping.”

They were ridiculing him, knowing that she was dead. But he put them all outside, and taking her by the hand, he called, saying, “Child, arise!” Her spirit returned, and she rose up immediately. He commanded that something be given to her to eat. Her parents were amazed, but he commanded them to tell no one what had been done.

God’s power is not only incomprehensible to me, but it’s incomprehensible and scary for people without faith. I remember, when I was an atheist, indications of God’s power and might scared me; thankfully, God had other plans and brought me to Him.

I bring this up because of Luke 8:53, where they mock Jesus--this ridicule comes from a knowledge and fear of God’s power.

We can fear God’s power. We can mock it. But our fears and our mockery do not change God’s nature. Better to accept the reality of God than to deny it.

(All Bible translations from the Public Domain World English Bible)
God does not put weather control in the hands of the sinners. Things like tidal cycles continue uninterrupted. If these were to be tampered with, all sorts of unintended consequences would happen. God hears the prayers of the righteous. The righteous should try to hear God. If God advises, “Go” or “Stay,” the follower should obey.

Climate change is a problem. I live in Florida. Hurricanes were strong enough to tear roofs off of houses. Too much wasteful driving and airline travel released more carbon. Solar cells are becoming more efficient. Wind power is efficient, but not available in my area as we do not have strong winds coming from one direction. The wind direction shifted. There is plenty of uranium, but after the Chernobyl and Fukushima meltdowns, people do not trust it. Fusion is potentially more lethal.
 
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Pathfinder627

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It seems unusual that Jesus would allow these demons to kill all of those pigs. We can brush it off with a “God’s thoughts are not our thoughts” evasion, but I think it might make more sense that this event never happened, and this is another parable.

For someone who likes Luke, you're treating him a bit lightly:

"Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught." [Luke 1:1-4]

He's clearly not out to write a symbolic story. He uses words like "orderly account", "eyewitnesses", "carefully investigated", etc..

Have you considered that the pigs were just putting up a fight? They are intelligent, and maybe preferred even death than getting possessed by demons. The demons' request was essentially trying to make a deal with Jesus, saying, "Look, we'll free this man. But let us continue to torment this area. This is just the lowest of the low - we just want this lousy corner in a Gentile area, with pigs. Let us stay." Perhaps at first they thought he was giving in, by allowing them to enter the pigs. But Jesus thwarted them in the end. Maybe he knew that the pigs would not welcome it, and the demons underestimated the worth of all creation. If there is anything symbolic in this, it's that unclean creatures (be it men or animals) still hate demons. And that demons ultimately aren't welcome anywhere. These weren't goats or sheep forced by Jews into a Temple to take sin upon themselves, but yet, the poor pigs hated evil enough on their own to fight it to the end.

Every time the Gospels present a story of Gentiles or Gentile areas, it shows how they did something that impressed Jesus. For example, the Roman centurion who came to ask for his servant to be healed, and merely wanted Jesus to say "It will be done" and that he would take Jesus' words on faith - showing himself to have even greater faith than Jesus' own disciples or anyone else in Israel. Or the Greeks who showed up at the Temple and wanted an audience with the Lord. But in this case, a story showing that even pigs wanted to be rid of evil. And it's all a foreshadowing of his ultimate mission. His earthly mission was to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel", but after he was resurrected, he told his disciples, "All authority in heaven and earth has been given to me. Go and make disciples of all nations."
 
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dqhall

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For someone who likes Luke, you're treating him a bit lightly:

"Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught." [Luke 1:1-4]

He's clearly not out to write a symbolic story. He uses words like "orderly account", "eyewitnesses", "carefully investigated", etc..

Have you considered that the pigs were just putting up a fight? They are intelligent, and maybe preferred even death than getting possessed by demons. The demons' request was essentially trying to make a deal with Jesus, saying, "Look, we'll free this man. But let us continue to torment this area. This is just the lowest of the low - we just want this lousy corner in a Gentile area, with pigs. Let us stay." Perhaps at first they thought he was giving in, by allowing them to enter the pigs. But Jesus thwarted them in the end. Maybe he knew that the pigs would not welcome it, and the demons underestimated the worth of all creation. If there is anything symbolic in this, it's that unclean creatures (be it men or animals) still hate demons. And that demons ultimately aren't welcome anywhere. These weren't goats or sheep forced by Jews into a Temple to take sin upon themselves, but yet, the poor pigs hated evil enough on their own to fight it to the end.

Every time the Gospels present a story of Gentiles or Gentile areas, it shows how they did something that impressed Jesus. For example, the Roman centurion who came to ask for his servant to be healed, and merely wanted Jesus to say "It will be done" and that he would take Jesus' words on faith - showing himself to have even greater faith than Jesus' own disciples or anyone else in Israel. Or the Greeks who showed up at the Temple and wanted an audience with the Lord. But in this case, a story showing that even pigs wanted to be rid of evil. And it's all a foreshadowing of his ultimate mission. His earthly mission was to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel", but after he was resurrected, he told his disciples, "All authority in heaven and earth has been given to me. Go and make disciples of all nations."
I found good passages in the Bible, not accepting it as 100% truth. God is real and miraculous. I have witnessed this.

Lemmings sometimes formed a herd and ran into the water and drowned. It is irrational animal behavior, but factual.

The demoniac is supposed to have been from Gadara as he was Gadarene. Gadara was a real city near steep cliffs above the Yarmuk River that flowed near the south end of the Sea of Galilee. Gadara was a city of the Decapolis with Gentile inhabitants who would have enjoyed eating pork. I have not seen demons leaving a person and causing animal suicide in my lifetime, thus I do not trust the verses about the demoniac as much. I have heard of insane people changed from being mad to becoming peaceful. Japan started a World War. Now they have a murder rate 350 times lower than the US murder rate. A reformed alcoholic used to describe himself as drinking and breaking out in handcuffs and misdemeanors. He became sober and in his right mind.
 
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Pathfinder627

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I found good passages in the Bible, not accepting it as 100% truth. God is real and miraculous. I have witnessed this.

Lemmings sometimes formed a herd and ran into the water and drowned. It is irrational animal behavior, but factual.

The demoniac is supposed to have been from Gadara as he was Gadarene. Gadara was a real city near steep cliffs above the Yarmuk River that flowed near the south end of the Sea of Galilee. Gadara was a city of the Decapolis with Gentile inhabitants who would have enjoyed eating pork. I have not seen demons leaving a person and causing animal suicide in my lifetime, thus I do not trust the verses about the demoniac as much. I have heard of insane people changed from being mad to becoming peaceful. Japan started a World War. Now they have a murder rate 350 times lower than the US murder rate. A reformed alcoholic used to describe himself as drinking and breaking out in handcuffs and misdemeanors. He became sober and in his right mind.


You should probably give up on talking in the "Exposition and Bible Study" section if all you have to say is "I don't believe it". That's your prerogative, but how does anyone else even interact with that?
 
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dqhall

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You should probably give up on talking in the "Exposition and Bible Study" section if all you have to say is "I don't believe it". That's your prerogative, but how does anyone else even interact with that?
Have you ever seen such a thing?
 
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samiam

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Let me help clarify things. Here is the ChristianForums statement of faith: CF Statement of Faith | Christian Forums

Observe that it is not required to believe in an inerrant Bible to be a member here (e.g. conservative Roman Catholics do not believe in an inerrant Bible) or to post in the Christian-only area. Posters who want a forum which mandates an inerrant interpretation of the Bible may be more happy over at another forum, such as this one: Rapture Forum's Doctrinal Statement and Core Values

Also worth reading: Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules | Christian Forums

Since the pigs story has been brought up, modern Biblical scholarship believes Luke used Mark as a source of this story: Marcan priority - Wikipedia (see also: Exorcism of the Gerasene demoniac - Wikipedia ) Luke may have believed it to be literally true, but that does not mean Mark thought it was literally true.
 
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