Recovering Apostolic Pentecostal

Tzav

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I was excommunicated from a trinitarian pentecostal church organization. Until then, I expected no favors from them, but that Sunday night, 19 December 1999, they gave me the greatest gift possible, because I didn't have the guts to leave. I had spent my life kowtowing to them, thinking they were my salvation.

I had friends who were UPC, so I know a little about that organization.

When I left, my husband of 12 years then stayed. I made it clear to him that I did not want him to leave because of me, or their actions toward me. If he left, I wanted it to be his real choice. He stayed until the Sunday before Easter a full year later.

My in-laws from my first marriage, who were very important to me, would never have been able to make peace with me, had they known, but I didn't tell and now, they have passed away. My present husband's father, the only one still in that organization who is still living, will not be at peace with me. He believes that I led his son astray from G-D when he left. But we live in another state from them and have through our whole (now 30+ year) marriage. All of my first husband's family, except his youngest sister, have written me off. My present husband's family, other than has father, have become a little friendlier.

This can happen. One never knows which way people will respond. They will gossip. They can be mean. Regardless of how they act, they will be judgmental. You just have to determine that you will quit letting it matter.

But Honey, stay sweet. Don't think if them as the biblical errant "swine." This is a typical pentecostal response. Drop all the critical attitudes that church taught you.

They are still people in need of G-D. They are still precious souls who will spend their eternity either with G-D or without Him. Maybe you are a "baby Christian," but when you don't know some biblical thing, just be quiet and love them, then "study to show yourself approved." We never know who will be led toward G-D by our godly attitude.

If your wedding attendants are going to make _your day_ difficult enough, you may have to make adjustments.
 
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YeshuaFan

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I was excommunicated from a trinitarian pentecostal church organization. Until then, I expected no favors from them, but that Sunday night, 19 December 1999, they gave me the greatest gift possible, because I didn't have the guts to leave. I had spent my life kowtowing to them, thinking they were my salvation.

I had friends who were UPC, so I know a little about that organization.

When I left, my husband of 12 years then stayed. I made it clear to him that I did not want him to leave because of me, or their actions toward me. If he left, I wanted it to be his real choice. He stayed until the Sunday before Easter a full year later.

My in-laws from my first marriage, who were very important to me, would never have been able to make peace with me, had they known, but I didn't tell and now, they have passed away. My present husband's father, the only one still in that organization who is still living, will not be at peace with me. He believes that I led his son astray from G-D when he left. But we live in another state from them and have through our whole (now 30+ year) marriage. All of my first husband's family, except his youngest sister, have written me off. My present husband's family, other than has father, have become a little friendlier.

This can happen. One never knows which way people will respond. They will gossip. They can be mean. Regardless of how they act, they will be judgmental. You just have to determine that you will quit letting it matter.

But Honey, stay sweet. Don't think if them as the biblical errant "swine." This is a typical pentecostal response. Drop all the critical attitudes that church taught you.

They are still people in need of G-D. They are still precious souls who will spend their eternity either with G-D or without Him. Maybe you are a "baby Christian," but when you don't know some biblical thing, just be quiet and love them, then "study to show yourself approved." We never know who will be led toward G-D by our godly attitude.

If your wedding attendants are going to make _your day_ difficult enough, you may have to make adjustments.
UPC even worse, as they add that one MUST speak in tongues to be saved, and MUST be water baptized in name of Jesus alone to get saved, and deny the Trinity!
 
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ToBeLoved

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I was excommunicated from a trinitarian pentecostal church organization. Until then, I expected no favors from them, but that Sunday night, 19 December 1999, they gave me the greatest gift possible, because I didn't have the guts to leave. I had spent my life kowtowing to them, thinking they were my salvation.

I had friends who were UPC, so I know a little about that organization.

When I left, my husband of 12 years then stayed. I made it clear to him that I did not want him to leave because of me, or their actions toward me. If he left, I wanted it to be his real choice. He stayed until the Sunday before Easter a full year later.

My in-laws from my first marriage, who were very important to me, would never have been able to make peace with me, had they known, but I didn't tell and now, they have passed away. My present husband's father, the only one still in that organization who is still living, will not be at peace with me. He believes that I led his son astray from G-D when he left. But we live in another state from them and have through our whole (now 30+ year) marriage. All of my first husband's family, except his youngest sister, have written me off. My present husband's family, other than has father, have become a little friendlier.

This can happen. One never knows which way people will respond. They will gossip. They can be mean. Regardless of how they act, they will be judgmental. You just have to determine that you will quit letting it matter.

But Honey, stay sweet. Don't think if them as the biblical errant "swine." This is a typical pentecostal response. Drop all the critical attitudes that church taught you.

They are still people in need of G-D. They are still precious souls who will spend their eternity either with G-D or without Him. Maybe you are a "baby Christian," but when you don't know some biblical thing, just be quiet and love them, then "study to show yourself approved." We never know who will be led toward G-D by our godly attitude.

If your wedding attendants are going to make _your day_ difficult enough, you may have to make adjustments.
I am a little confused.

In the first paragraph you state it is a Trinitarian church and then later start talking about the UPC organization which is not Trinitarian
 
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ToBeLoved

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UPC even worse, as they add that one MUST speak in tongues to be saved, and MUST be water baptized in name of Jesus alone to get saved, and deny the Trinity!
UPC is out of the bowels of h e double toothpick.

Half my family is the non Trinitarian UPC. They just devastate every one in their path.
 
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YeshuaFan

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UPC is out of the bowels of h e double toothpick.

Half my family is the non Trinitarian UPC. They just devastate every one in their path.
They deny the true Jesus and true Gospel, and are deceived!
 
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YeshuaFan

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In order to let her know that I was familiar with the UPC, my second paragraph was "I had friends who were UPC, so I know a little about that organization."
You do not agree with them on theology though, do you?
 
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YeshuaFan

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Very deceived. It’s disgusting
They came out from among the Assemblies of god, as in the 1917-1918 Campground meetings, a pastor received the "revelation" from God that Jesus was all 3 at same time!
Assemblies to their credit saw Upc as being heresy!
 
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Tzav

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UPC is out of the bowels of h e double toothpick.

Half my family is the non Trinitarian UPC. They just devastate every one in their path.
I don't think there are any trinitarian UPCs at all. I have had a little bit of interaction with them and never heard of any being trinitarian. <shrugs>

I have to tell you this: on the day I learned my daughter had cancer, I left work and went out trying to find a place to just walk and pray for a while. I ended up on the lawn of a UPC church, thought better of being there, then stayed. What could it hurt?

Some guy came running out of the church, demanding that I go away. I explained, but he told me to get off their property. After a few months, I sent them an email about this, and the pastor asked me to come back and he would show me that they were not like that; the guy was in error. A few months later, I did come to their adult Sunday school class, thinking it was probably harmless. I did not tell anyone that I was the one who had been shooed off. After it was all over, that pastor introduced himself to me, so I mentioned who I was. He was highly irritated and reprimanded me for not telling him in the first place who I was, not as I was leaving.

UPC pastors in my little bit of experience with them (my friends' father was a UPC pastor, and others would visit while I was at their house) are very stubborn and demanding. They insist upon things being their way or no way. I just smiled and left. I would not go back, unless I get in a mood to torture myself.
 
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ToBeLoved

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In order to let her know that I was familiar with the UPC, my second paragraph was "I had friends who were UPC, so I know a little about that organization."
I studied UPC in depth for over 6 months straight from their website after I found out which organization my family members followed.

I would advise everyone to do some studying as to their beliefs.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Hi Tzav, I have often asked them for a copy of their systematic Theology books and never got one.

I have read some of their early church history books, and they do not know their history of the early church. The early church fathers were Trinitrians.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Hi Tzav, I have often asked them for a copy of their systematic Theology books and never got one.

I have read some of their early church history books, and they do not know their history of the early church. The early church fathers were Trinitrians.
The UPC can only trace themselves back to the early Pentecostal holiness movements of the early 1900’s. And they distorted that movement, not that I agree with that theology

That is part of the scam putting ‘Apostolic’ in their church names. It is part of their sham to try to present themselves in alignment to the early church.

They take major pride in the ‘Apostolic’ word, and I guess it makes them not look like the cult they are.

I specifically asked my three family members about how they see that word, Apostolic. It was a bad bad joke
 
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ToBeLoved

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You will not find the combination of their theology in the early church fathers as being part of the church.
Yup. That’s why I hate them stealing the word Apostolic.

They perverse our word that has meaning to us.
 
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Concerning God the Father

"
God Is Spirit

The Scriptures teach that God is Spirit. Jesus said: "God is Spirit" (John 4:24). By nature, God is a Spirit-being.

However a person defines spirit, the definition does not include flesh and bones. This can be seen in an encounter Jesus had with His disciples after His resurrection:

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Handle me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have (Luke 24:39).

Jesus clearly said a spirit does not have flesh and bones. God, therefore, being a spirit, does not have physical form.

God Is Invisible

A spirit is also invisible. Although God led Israel by means of a pillar of fire, He was never seen by the nation. Moses made this clear to the people.

You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully (Deuteronomy 4:15).

The Apostle Paul wrote.

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen (1 Timothy 1:17).

He Is Known As The Invisible God

God is known as the invisible God.

But He said, "You cannot see my face; for no man shall see me, and live" (Exodus 33:20).

John wrote.

No one has seen God at any time. The one and only God who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him (John 1:18).

Paul testified.

For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse (Romans 1:20)

To the Colossians he wrote.

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation (Colossians 1:15).

Paul wrote to Timothy.

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen (1 Timothy 1:17).

To Timothy again, Paul wrote.

Who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen. (1 Timothy 6:16).

He Is Not Subject To Limitations

As spirit, God is not subject to the limitations of a body as are human beings. He does not have any body parts, neither does He have human passions. God is not composed of any material elements. Therefore He cannot be seen without our natural eyes or experienced by our natural senses. In the Book of Job the question is raised.

Can you discover the depths of God? Can you discover the limits of the Almighty (Job 11:7).

The answer is no. God's depths and limits are not discoverable.

The Spirit Is Life

Spirit is not so much an attribute of God as it is a mode of His existence. God acts and exists as a spirit. Jesus said.

It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life (John 6:63).

God Did Not Allow The Making Of Idols

In addition, God specifically forbade His people to make idols.

You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God (Exodus 20:3-5).

Moses also wrote.

And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that you might observe them in the land which you cross over to possess. "Take careful heed to yourselves, for you saw no form when the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, "lest you act corruptly and make for yourselves a carved image in the form of any figure: the likeness of male or female, "the likeness of any animal that is on the earth or the likeness of any winged bird that flies in the air, "the likeness of anything that creeps on the ground or the likeness of any fish that is in the water beneath the earth. "And take heed, lest you lift your eyes to heaven, and when you see the sun, the moon, and the stars, all the host of heaven, you feel driven to worship them and serve them, which the Lord your God has given to all the peoples under the whole heaven as a heritage. "But the Lord has taken you and brought you out of the iron furnace, out of Egypt, to be his people, an inheritance, as you are this day (Deuteronomy 4:14-20).

Isaiah wrote.

To whom then will you liken me, or to whom shall I be equal says the Holy One (Isaiah 40:25).

One of the reasons for this is because God is a Spirit.

God Became A Human

When Jesus came to earth two thousand years ago, He took upon Himself a human nature which included a body. Though He will forever be in that body, His Divine nature is not material. His body is a human body, not a divine body. Previously to His coming to earth, He did not possess a body.

He Does Not Have A Shadowy Existence

This does not mean that God lives in some shadowy existence. God is a real person with genuine existence. His nature cannot be fully appreciated by the human mind or described in an adequate manner by human language.

This Is Difficult To Comprehend

The fact that God is a personal Spirit is difficult to comprehend. We wonder, "How can something be personal without being material?" While we cannot understand how this can be so, this is what the Scripture says concerning the nature of God. Consequently we accept it by faith.

Summary

The Bible teaches that God is spirit. A spirit, by definition, is invisible. It does not have any physical form. God, therefore, has no physical form. This is one of the reasons that the Lord did not allow idols of him to be made. How God can exist as a spirit without any sort of body is a divine mystery.

The Bible speaks of God as the invisible God.

Jesus Christ, God the Son, took upon Himself human nature including a physical form when He came to the earth, but did not possess a divine body."Does God Have a Physical Body?
 
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Tzav

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You do not agree with them on theology though, do you?
No. I do not agree with the UPC, and I do not agree with the church of which I was a member either. There is nothing in either that I want. I gladly, solidly, and completely chucked them all when they excommunicated me. There is nothing good in them, except that the one I attended had great music sometimes, which was often like going to a fine concert, but I can listen to Sproul's music and get that.
 
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YeshuaFan

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The UPC can only trace themselves back to the early Pentecostal holiness movements of the early 1900’s. And they distorted that movement, not that I agree with that theology

That is part of the scam putting ‘Apostolic’ in their church names. It is part of their sham to try to present themselves in alignment to the early church.

They take major pride in the ‘Apostolic’ word, and I guess it makes them not look like the cult they are.

I specifically asked my three family members about how they see that word, Apostolic. It was a bad bad joke
Came directly out of the Assemblies of God church
 
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ToBeLoved

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No. I do not agree with the UPC, and I do not agree with the church of which I was a member either. There is nothing in either that I want. I gladly, solidly, and completely chucked them all when they excommunicated me. There is nothing good in them, except that the one I attended had great music sometimes, which was often like going to a fine concert, but I can listen to Sproul's music and get that.
God blesses you when they excommunicated you. God works in mysterious ways :oldthumbsup:
 
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