reconciliation after violence?

[knittingmom]

My husband and I are separated - this is continued from the post "anyone worked through domestic violence?" in marriage ministry / married couples only. I finally got around to looking at other subforums and realized that marriage restoration is an appropriate place for the question.

Do you think it's possible to reconcile after violence?

See the previous post for a detailed explanation of the situation. The problem with reconciliation is that he thinks it's okay to throw me around, strangle me, slap me until I'm bruised. He won't listen to the court if they tell him that he was wrong (we go Monday about the restraining order I took out on him), he won't listen to the couple's counselor we've been seeing...but he might listen to one particular priest. I want to offer Monday to drop the restraining order, but continue living with my parents, if he will go to that particular Mass with me, speak with that particular priest about the situation, and go to counseling with me (there's a Catholic organization out of town that does marriage counseling, he might take them seriously). I've also looked into Retrouvaille, and there's a program in February.

I know that this won't work unless he wants to address the situation honestly, and unless he'll accept being told that what he's done is wrong. The priest might convince him. I don't know.

 

[dayknee]

I suppose there could be reconciliation after violence. I for one would not let any man lay a finger on me and if he did..all vows, promises and bets are off and I would never look back.
If one was considering staying with an abusive man I suppose one would have to decide what kind of abuse one is willing to accept. If you find that being strangled, choked, slapped, punched, kicked and etc are things you can overlook..Can I just say I would feel very very sorry for you..
I do not mean to be harsh sounding..and it is your life after all... but please please show yourself more respect than that..and you need to love yourself...
if he wont seek counseling that would be a deal breaker..as if the hitting and slapping are not enough..Only he can change himself...You cant force him to go to counseling, but if he is willing to do it and you are willing to wait for a change..I hope things work out for you the way you want them to.

 

[bliz]

Could there be a reconciliation? Sure, with God anything is possible. But God seldom forces us (or our abusers) to do something we are not willing to do.

If there is to be a reconciliation, he would have to do a 180, have considerable counseling and it would take quite a lot of time - years. It took years to develop this pattern of violence when he is losing control, it will take years to change it.

 

[knittingmom]

It's not that he's losing control so much as it is that he justifies violence. He sat down today and told me that while he used to have an anger problem, he doesn't any more- he showed me a ladder diagram in an anger management book and said "I never got above rung 2 - the cold shoulder. But 'demanding and threatening,' 'chasing and restraining,' 'physical violence' - I never did those, not on a regular basis." But he DID, all of them. I have bruises from him.

So I don't know where to go from there. If he doesn't believe that he did what he did, or if he thinks it was justified, then we just can't fix anything. I'll stay married, but I won't live with him again and I'll get custody of our baby (I'm pregnant). I guess his worldview would have to do a 180 - not just his self control. And I can't change that.

We're going to a counselor tomorrow. I'm throwing everything on the table, and I'm expecting my husband to either blame me or walk out of the room.

Oh - and he has sought counseling for himself since I left our home last week. But based on the conversation we had today, I don't think he's telling them what he actually did to me.

 

[kanga22]

Obtain and keep a restraining order in place! Your lawyer can tell you better than me all the reasons why this is a good idea, but I strongly encourage it. If he is willing to make the necessary changes, he can do it with the restraining order in place. You need to protect yourself and your unborn baby! If you won't do it for YOU, then just realize that you are protecting your innocent and precious baby from him now and in the future.

He is obviously in denial about his problems and his treatment of you. It will take time for him to work through this. There is nothing wrong with letting him do the work he needs to do while you are seperated and safe from him. I also have a husband with a hard heart who doesn't want to change - so I've lost hope that he ever will. And, I've realized that I can't change enough to make him happy.

Don't let him convince you that his lies are true! My husband does that too, and I'm realizing that he will never change and I will have to make some difficult decisions soon. Please, stay physically away from your husband until you know that you and your baby are safe. I hope that your husband does talk with the priest and that it goes well. God bless.

 

[overit]

Oh dear heavens, do NOT drop the restraining order, and DO NOT reconcile...at least not now (if it were me I'd say never but for you, right now, focus on today)....do you not know the number 1 cause of death for pregnant women is MURDER? Typically by their spouse or bf? This is NOT a safe time for you, particularly that you guys are splitting up now. Do not meet him, do not go to church with him, do not see him, do not contact him.Get in immediate counseling-you are completely desensitized and minimizing the effect this has on you.Document every single time you remember his beatings, if you can remember what month, date, time, anything, surrounding situations, what triggered, what he said, what he did. Document like crazy-this is necessary to keep an accurate report not only for the authorities, but for you to go and read up on when he starts his crazymaking denial of the events. Break the silence, tell everyone you are afraid of him, he can speak to the minister on his own, you dont' need ot be there, abusers and their victims should never go to joint counseling.You need immediate counseling from a domestic violence counselor or advocate, get some books and get help, let him get help for himself.Reconciliation would take years at the point he is at today. You are young, honey, are you willing to reconcile and wake up 30yrs from now, a woman abuser her entire life, her kids abused her entire life? Truth is, most abusers, particularly physical ones will NEVER change.

 

[Johnnz]

Whatever, he will need a lot of time to show real evidence of lasting change before you can even contemplate returning to him. It would not be safe to do otherwise.

Beware of contrition to restore benefits. Any man who regularly hits his wife is seriously dysfunctional and requires extended therapy and time to prove himself.

John
NZ

 

[RJAZ]

Violence as in abuse? It seems to reinvent itself. If you mean severe,no way should someone hang around. I've had items thrown at me,been slapped until I'm ready to slap back. reconciliation would mean sitting down with mental health counselors.

 

[IKTCA]

My dear young sister,

Let me ask you a question.
I am 56 years old, and any young man can strike me without the fear of getting struck back. Even though there are many angry and violent men in the street, I haven't been struck on my face by these violent men. Can you explain this?

It's because God put fear of another person in everyone's soul. The Bible says so - the story of Lamech in Genesis. It's a healthy fear, and we call it respect. A man can strike his wife only after he overcame this barrier of fear (respect) for his wife. The fear (respect) was not learned; it was put in him by God. It takes much evil to overcome such a barrier, more evil than lying to wife or not caring for wife.

You said he listens to a priest. But it takes more than listening to a man. It takes listening to God. It's because only God can remove such evil from a man. No priest can do that. Marriage counselors and priests can only encourage a man to seek the Lord.

I am not trying to discourage you. Rather, i want you to be wise, and get committed to praying for your husband, since you want reconciliation. Just remember that no human reasoning can make a man turn around. He can apologize to you, but you cannot remove the evil mind. Only God can do that for him. You are in a fight that's greater than you know. Therefore, seek the Lord yourself, and petition him to help you.

Therefore lift your drooping hands
and strengthen your week knees,
and make straight paths for your feet ..... [Hebrews 12]

Rupert

 

[Autumnleaf]

It is possible to restore a marriage under any circumstances. It seems like maybe your husband needs to be more honest before this process can begin for yours.

 

[Godkindoflife4]

My husband and I are separated - this is continued from the post "anyone worked through domestic violence?" in marriage ministry / married couples only. I finally got around to looking at other subforums and realized that marriage restoration is an appropriate place for the question.

Do you think it's possible to reconcile after violence?

See the previous post for a detailed explanation of the situation. The problem with reconciliation is that he thinks it's okay to throw me around, strangle me, slap me until I'm bruised. He won't listen to the court if they tell him that he was wrong (we go Monday about the restraining order I took out on him), he won't listen to the couple's counselor we've been seeing...but he might listen to one particular priest. I want to offer Monday to drop the restraining order, but continue living with my parents, if he will go to that particular Mass with me, speak with that particular priest about the situation, and go to counseling with me (there's a Catholic organization out of town that does marriage counseling, he might take them seriously). I've also looked into Retrouvaille, and there's a program in February.

I know that this won't work unless he wants to address the situation honestly, and unless he'll accept being told that what he's done is wrong. The priest might convince him. I don't know.

I'm a little late replying to this.

It is definitely not right for your husband to be allowed to just push you around, strangle you ect. Both you and your husband are equal for the bible says that when a man and woman are married, they become one flesh---equal to one another. Not one person above the other. Work together as one team. Definitely get this solved as soon as possible. Counseling for sure for your husband. Hopefully he will listen to the marriage counselors and realize what he is doing is completely wrong.

I'll be praying for your marriage to be restored and better than ever!

 

[Godkindoflife4]

It's not that he's losing control so much as it is that he justifies violence. He sat down today and told me that while he used to have an anger problem, he doesn't any more- he showed me a ladder diagram in an anger management book and said "I never got above rung 2 - the cold shoulder. But 'demanding and threatening,' 'chasing and restraining,' 'physical violence' - I never did those, not on a regular basis." But he DID, all of them. I have bruises from him.

So I don't know where to go from there. If he doesn't believe that he did what he did, or if he thinks it was justified, then we just can't fix anything. I'll stay married, but I won't live with him again and I'll get custody of our baby (I'm pregnant). I guess his worldview would have to do a 180 - not just his self control. And I can't change that.

We're going to a counselor tomorrow. I'm throwing everything on the table, and I'm expecting my husband to either blame me or walk out of the room.

Oh - and he has sought counseling for himself since I left our home last week. But based on the conversation we had today, I don't think he's telling them what he actually did to me.

I be praying for your husband that he will realize his mistakes by the end of ya'lls next marriage counseling.

God Bless!

 

[jwwells]

snip

Do you think it's possible to reconcile after violence?

See the previous post for a detailed explanation of the situation. The problem with reconciliation is that he thinks it's okay to throw me around, strangle me, slap me until I'm bruised. He won't listen to the court if they tell him that he was wrong (we go Monday about the restraining order I took out on him), he won't listen to the couple's counselor we've been seeing...but he might listen to one particular priest. I want to offer Monday to drop the restraining order, but continue living with my parents, if he will go to that particular Mass with me, speak with that particular priest about the situation, and go to counseling with me (there's a Catholic organization out of town that does marriage counseling, he might take them seriously). I've also looked into Retrouvaille, and there's a program in February.

I know that this won't work unless he wants to address the situation honestly, and unless he'll accept being told that what he's done is wrong. The priest might convince him. I don't know.

Is it possible to reconcile? Yes, in some cases. No, in other cases.

Generally speaking, for our society, it will be easier to have reconciliation if the violence is female victim and male offender. Male batterers are openly looked down upon in our society and that may be helpful. Women are sympathized with, which also can be helpful. There's far too much support for a woman's right to be violent for the female offender to learn not to be violent.

In your particular case, he must learn that HE IS WRONG! He must learn that through and through: He must learn to take responsibility for his actions and for his wrongs. You must learn that YOU have the right to be treated properly. Both things must happen.

Can this happen? It all depends on HIM! His choices, good or evil, are the ones which matter.

 

[ALed93]

Abuse is abuse... I'm struggling with this situation myself, though not to the degree that you are. I know God would want you to first of all be safe.

ABUSE IS NOT LOVE!


The definition of love as from I Corinthians 13: 4-8...
Love is: patient, kind
Love is NOT: proud, rude, self seeking, easily angered
Love does: keeps no record of wrong, rejoices with the truth
Love does NOT: envy, boast, delight in evil
Love always: protects, trust, hopes, perserverers
Love never: fails


I will be praying for you! God Bless YOU!

 

[FaithfulWife]

It is possible to reconcile after domestic violence, and I've seen it happen. Here's what it looks like usually:

The husband and wife fight; he lays hands on her; she calls the police; they arrest him; he convinces her to not charge him but she can't get charges dropped because it's the CITIZENS charging him--not her. She gets a restraining order for her protection and moves in with her parents to get on her feet. He pressures her to let the restraining order die. He's not supposed to contact her but he keeps emailing, IM-ing, etc. trying to still control her.

Sound familiar so far??

Here's how it looks when reconciliation occurs:

The husband and wife fight; he lays hands on her; she calls the police; they arrest him; he convinces her to not charge him but she can't get charges dropped because it's the CITIZENS charging him--not her. She gets a restraining order for her protection and moves in with her parents to get on her feet. He honors the restraining order and decides to really examine himself and work on himself. It's lonely and frustrating to be without his family, but he does it anyway because he made this bed he's laying in. He goes to all of his court-ordered anger management for a year on his own--without a reminder or "help" to get a ride. He goes to his own individual counselor and actually examines himself, and he realizes that all these years he has not taken personal responsibility for his actions.

All this takes about a year or more. He takes the next year making amends, continuing his individual counseling, and working on his anger management. He does not rush his wife or force her or mention the word "submit" but he does see if she might consider reconciling and respects her decision even if it's no. He DOES NOT focus on "YOU did this and YOU did that" but rather sets his pride aside and says, "This is what I did that directly contributed to the downfall of our marriage" and he keeps the focus on doing his own work. He's right with God and is willing to demonstrate that by real changes in his behavior and choices. He's gentle and understanding of the hurt he caused his wife "in his angry years" and let's her express her anger and fears without threats or punishment. He doesn't not "pretend it never happened" and "sweep it under the rug" but rather he faces those dark days HEAD ON and admits where he went wrong.

THAT is when the wife would be wise to possibly consider thinking of reconciliation--and I would advise she test him for at least another year or two and have him prove to her over a long period of time not just that he can "hold his temper" (while steaming under the collar) but rather than his whole nature has changed due to working on his own issues and getting right with God.

If those things DO NOT OCCUR, then I do not believe it is possible to reconcile after domestic violence. The cycle of violence will just continue and escalate upward.


~Faithful

 

[BigCam]

I completely agree with "FaithfulWife". I hope the timing she has given isn't quite so long but if that's what it takes then so be it, it's just part of the consequences that I have to deal with because of what I've done.

This is my story so far, edited from Faithful's post...

The husband and wife fight; he lays hands on her; she calls a family friend from church who is also a professional counsellor and her mentor, her mentor comes round with a friend and father in law and calms the husband down and takes the wife and two girls to her place. The next day the wife goes into Women's Refuge. The husband goes to live with his parents. Later, when the two boys come back from holiday with his mother, she gets a Without Notice Protection Order and Parenting Order for the children and her protection and has the boys uplifted to be with her and the girls at Women's Refuge. Due to the high priority of being in Women's Refuge she soon gets a house with Housing New Zealand and moves there with the children. He honors the Orders and appreciates his wife's offer of being able to have two of the children alternately each weekend under supervision as required by the Protection Order (his parents). The supervision requirement cannot be changed as it's the CITIZENS who are now in charge of deciding that through Family Court Judges and not her. He decides to really examine himself and work on himself with help from his church Pastor as his mentor, the two mentor's are facilitating the reconciliation process and his pastor acts as messenger between the two due to the noncontact provisions in the Protection Order. It's lonely and frustrating to be without his family, but he does it anyway because he made this bed he's laying in. He goes to all of his court-ordered anger management for 12 weeks on his own (except for Guest Nights as part of the course) without a reminder or "help" to get a ride. He goes to and is going and will go to other personal development and parenting courses and actually examines himself, and he realizes that all these years he has not taken personal responsibility for his actions.

All this takes about a year or more. He takes the next year making amends, continuing his individual courses and working on his anger management. He does not rush his wife or force her or mention the word "submit" but he does see if she might consider reconciling and respects her decision even if it's no. He DOES NOT focus on "YOU did this and YOU did that" as he should not place any blame on her and should have already forgiven her for whatever part he feels she played in the relationship issues. He should have already dealt with putting blame aside and letting go of the past in order to move on into the future as part of becoming the new person that he is working on and sets his pride aside and says, "This is what I did that directly contributed to the downfall of our marriage" and he keeps the focus on doing his own work. He's right with God and is willing to demonstrate that by real changes in his behaviour and choices. When they eventually begin couple's counselling he's gentle and understanding of the hurt he caused his wife "in his angry years" and let's her express her anger and fears without threats or punishment. He doesn't not "pretend it never happened" and "sweep it under the rug" but rather he faces those dark days HEAD ON and admits where he went wrong.

THAT is when the wife would be wise to possibly consider thinking of reconciliation--and I would advise she test him for at least another year or two and have him prove to her over a long period of time not just that he can "hold his temper" (while steaming under the collar) but rather than his whole nature has changed due to working on his own issues and getting right with God. (This is one of the reasons I am not contesting the Protection Order becoming a Final Protection Order because my pastor and her mentor and herself believe that it is necessary for her, no matter how uncomfortable it may be living in relationship with her again with that tension hanging over it. I may not like it but again, it's one of those consequences you sometimes have to live with as a result of your actions, it's called taking responsibility.)

 

[BigCam]

I would hasten to add that the husband should also not be willing to consider reconciliation if the wife has not dealt with her personal issues either. If the husband has truely changed his ways and is no longer violent or controlling why would he want to reconcile with someone who also had personal issues that contributed to the break down of the relationship. Just as his wife should not be reasonably expected to reconcile in a situation where change has not occured with anger management and any other personal issues neither should the husband. As stated before by FaithfulWife, he should not be demanding, controlling or pressuring the wife to make these changes in order to reconcile just because he wants to reconcile nor should he blame her for those things or hold them against her. These things are not possible to do if he has made true change and he should therefore be forgiving. But just because you forgive doesn't mean you don't learn, if you loan a possession to someone and they break it, even though you forgive them, it doesn't mean that you will loan them something again, at least not immediately. He can only control things that he is responsible for and unfortunately the relationship relies on two people being responsible, not just one. To go back into the relationship where either one or both parties have not dealt with their issues is not fair on either party or on the children. If he has changed and become a better person, father and potential husband then he deserves better. This is just as true for the wife. If they have both done this as a process of reconciliation then all good. Otherwise, as suggested by FaithfulWife at the end of her post, leave it and move on.

 

[EarthboundNess]

This thread is 6 years old and the poster hasn't been back in just as long. Thank God because I don't think the advice that she needs to change the behavior that got her beaten to save the marriage is ridiculous. The problems she may or may not have are totally eclipsed by the big picture. He beats her bloody. A woman doesn't change who she is to not get beat up. A man doesn't beat up a woman. Doesn't mater what she did.

 

[BigCam]

Umm, firstly, there is no mention what the domestic violence discussed actually happened to be, so whether she was made bloody, hospitalised, hit, slapped, psychologically abused, emotionally abused or even just tickled or whatever is not the point of the discussion and using emotive language like that distracts from the issue.
You are quite correct that she should not have to change her behaviour to stop being beaten. You however are starting from an incorrect point of view that is actually the point of view of people who are abusers. There was no behaviour that caused her to be beaten, she didn't cause the abuse in any way whatsoever. The cause of the abuse was the abuser who decided to react in the way he did to whatever was happening at the time.
You are also correct in that there is no excuse for anyone to physically abuse another no matter what gender the two people are.
If you read FaithfulWife's post she discusses the abuser dealing with those issues and making genuine real change.
The issue is regarding reconciling the relationship after abuse issues are finished with and that a relationship requires two people working fully together, not one. If a person makes such sweeping changes to their entire life they will be substantially a different person. Usually when you get married you agree to continuing to accept the other person despite changes in personal growth as time progresses but in a case where you have separated for a time for each to deal with themselves generally if one made changes to what made the relationship septic and the other hasn't then if it is the physical abuser who has changed then you are changing the abuser then into the abused and swapping one form of abuse for another. Again, nothing gives anyone a right to abuse another, whether it is man-man, man-woman, woman-man, woman-woman.

 

[EarthboundNess]

Umm, firstly, there is no mention what the domestic violence discussed actually happened to be, so whether she was made bloody, hospitalised, hit, slapped, psychologically abused, emotionally abused or even just tickled or whatever is not the point of the discussion and using emotive language like that distracts from the issue.

She said that he slapped her around, choked her, and left bruises. How can you look at a hurting woman and say that when she says she's been physically abused think that she's talking about being tickled? What takes away from the discussion is to have a person say they were abused and then think they meant something like tickling or breaking down degree of injury like it matters. If she was slapped once slapped 100 times beaten to the point of being put in the hospital or didn't leave a mark. Men don't hit women and never ever should. Beating her once or everyday makes her a victim and the abuser the one who is entirely to blame. There's not a degree of victim or degree of abuser. You hit a woman you are an abuser. Forget her I'm personally offended you'd say that this is a woman complaining she was being tickled and didn't like it especially when she said it was much more.

You are quite correct that she should not have to change her behaviour to stop being beaten. You however are starting from an incorrect point of view that is actually the point of view of people who are abusers. There was no behaviour that caused her to be beaten, she didn't cause the abuse in any way whatsoever. The cause of the abuse was the abuser who decided to react in the way he did to whatever was happening at the time.
You are also correct in that there is no excuse for anyone to physically abuse another no matter what gender the two people are.
If you read FaithfulWife's post she discusses the abuser dealing with those issues and making genuine real change.

A man who hits a woman needs to make genuine real change.

You're talking about a hypothetical situation in a post made in response to the original poster. I'm talking about the real poster who said she was beaten and choked. He deserves jail. He needs to change to be a functional man forget good husband.

The issue is regarding reconciling the relationship after abuse issues are finished with and that a relationship requires two people working fully together, not one. If a person makes such sweeping changes to their entire life they will be substantially a different person. Usually when you get married you agree to continuing to accept the other person despite changes in personal growth as time progresses but in a case where you have separated for a time for each to deal with themselves generally if one made changes to what made the relationship septic and the other hasn't then if it is the physical abuser who has changed then you are changing the abuser then into the abused and swapping one form of abuse for another. Again, nothing gives anyone a right to abuse another, whether it is man-man, man-woman, woman-man, woman-woman.

This is the most outrageous thing I've ever seen anybody say in my whole life. A husband who does this to his wife needs to make big changes and needs to be a different person. It doesn't mean that people have to just accept the other person and their changes. A woman doesn't have to accept that a man who beat her won't do it anymore. A woman who was beaten doesn't need to change herself to accommodate her abuser husband after he's stopped or while he's abusing. She doesn't become an abuser because she won't change herself.

A woman who gets hit is a victim. She doesn't have to do a darn thing for the guy who hit her. Saying she has to in order to keep the marriage afloat is blaming the victim and pretending that abuse isn't a big deal. Or that to a woman abuse is being tickled.