Recently heard a new bingo - Have kids to cure my introversion!

[Amélie Unbound]

I've been getting to be friends with a woman at church, and everything was going along great. But then she recently invited me out for lunch, and during lunch she mentioned that she's noticed that I'm not very outgoing. She then said, "You know what would fix that? Having kids! Kids are naturally outgoing, and they'll talk to anyone, so that forces you to be outgoing and talk to people too."

I like this woman, and I don't know her very well yet, so I bit my tongue. I just smiled and said, "Oh really?" Or something like that. But for goodness sake, what a ridiculous thing to say, for so many reasons!


1. I'm an introvert, and I don't see introversion as a flaw that needs to be "fixed". It would be one thing if I had no friends, but that's not the case. I have friends, and I have enough people to talk to; I don't need to add more and more and more people to my circle of acquaintances. When people talk to me, I'm friendly to them, but I see no reason I should need to go out there and take the initiative to find complete strangers to talk to all the time. And if I had children, I wouldn't encourage them to talk to strangers either.

2. Being "forced" to act outgoing does not actually make someone outgoing. I have forced myself to act outgoing in the past and it just took a horrible toll on me, because that's not the way God made me and it's not the way I'm meant to be. I couldn't keep it up for very long. It didn't "fix" me. An introvert can act like an extrovert but that doesn't actually make them an extrovert.

3. Not all kids are naturally outgoing. I wasn't. If I had a child, he or she could easily be a natural born introvert like I was/am.

4. Having kids because you expect them to fix your (supposed) flaws is a very selfish reason for bringing new human beings into the world, and is a horrible burden to put on them.


It's just crazy, the things people will come up with to try to convince the childfree to have kids! And here I thought I'd heard it all.

 

[Rembrandtfan]

That is crazy. And it's just another example of how people have a tendency to view anyone different from themselves as "flawed" and feel that they must fix that person. It's kind of like how singles get treated. People assume they are unhappy being single and hound them about when are they getting married and try to play matchmaker.

 

[Amélie Unbound]

That is crazy. And it's just another example of how people have a tendency to view anyone different from themselves as "flawed" and feel that they must fix that person. It's kind of like how singles get treated. People assume they are unhappy being single and hound them about when are they getting married and try to play matchmaker.

Oh yes, I can relate to that. I didn't get married until I was 31, so I had a lot of years where I heard plenty of opinions and "helpful advice" about that too.

 

[shaslove]

KIDS do NOT MAKE you outgoing!

Dumbest thing I ever heard!

 

[snoochface]

That's so stupid. I would bet this lady just does not even realize how what she said sounded. She's probably someone who has always wanted children, always been outgoing, and just can't envision a life any different. Maybe you'll be the one to show her how possible it is, Orchard, you could broaden her horizons

 

[Rebekka]

I've been getting to be friends with a woman at church, and everything was going along great. But then she recently invited me out for lunch, and during lunch she mentioned that she's noticed that I'm not very outgoing. She then said, "You know what would fix that? Having kids! Kids are naturally outgoing, and they'll talk to anyone, so that forces you to be outgoing and talk to people too."

I like this woman, and I don't know her very well yet, so I bit my tongue. I just smiled and said, "Oh really?" Or something like that. But for goodness sake, what a ridiculous thing to say, for so many reasons!


1. I'm an introvert, and I don't see introversion as a flaw that needs to be "fixed". It would be one thing if I had no friends, but that's not the case. I have friends, and I have enough people to talk to; I don't need to add more and more and more people to my circle of acquaintances. When people talk to me, I'm friendly to them, but I see no reason I should need to go out there and take the initiative to find complete strangers to talk to all the time. And if I had children, I wouldn't encourage them to talk to strangers either.

2. Being "forced" to act outgoing does not actually make someone outgoing. I have forced myself to act outgoing in the past and it just took a horrible toll on me, because that's not the way God made me and it's not the way I'm meant to be. I couldn't keep it up for very long. It didn't "fix" me. An introvert can act like an extrovert but that doesn't actually make them an extrovert.

3. Not all kids are naturally outgoing. I wasn't. If I had a child, he or she could easily be a natural born introvert like I was/am.

4. Having kids because you expect them to fix your (supposed) flaws is a very selfish reason for bringing new human beings into the world, and is a horrible burden to put on them.


It's just crazy, the things people will come up with to try to convince the childfree to have kids! And here I thought I'd heard it all.

What?! What nonsense! "All children are naturally outgoing"- what a narrowminded comment! I have NEVER been outgoing at all, I was born an introvert. Come to think of it, all people who claim they "love" children ("because they're so outgoing") hated me as a child! Because I didn't fit into their box of what children are supposed to be: cheerful, shallow, outgoing, playful, noisy, cute, ignorant. (In other words: I was a melancholic, deep, introverted, reading, quiet, unattractive, intelligent know-it-all. Grownups HATE that.)

And I could have written your post Orchard, I'm exactly the same (I usually list my reasons, too! ), a happy introvert! People are prejudiced about introverts - why should someone be "cured" of introversion, it's not a disease! I'm not trying to convert or heal extraverted people - perhaps I should!

And what an awful burden would it lay on that child - to be born to "fix" their parent's problem. Introversion isn't a problem of course - but what if the same was said about depression? "You should have a child, that will cure you of your depression! All children are naturally cheerful!" Yeah - what if it doesn't fix it, and the child grows up miserably because the mother is even more depressed than before?

 

[Rembrandtfan]

I am an introvert myself. One time at church I went to a class about learning how to use your spiritual gifts and the teacher was talking about personality types. A couple of the people in the class started spouting off about how introversion is just a focus on self.
But the teacher set them straight. He said God created different personality types for a reason, including introversion, and He uses all of them for His divine purpose. There is a difference between introversion and shyness or social anxiety. And I wouldn't even condemn shyness or social anxiety as a focus on self like some people do. People who struggle with that need acceptance, not judgement, or people trying to fix them.

 

[Rebekka]

I am an introvert myself. One time at church I went to a class about learning how to use your spiritual gifts and the teacher was talking about personality types. A couple of the people in the class started spouting off about how introversion is just a focus on self.
But the teacher set them straight. He said God created different personality types for a reason, including introversion, and He uses all of them for His divine purpose. There is a difference between introversion and shyness or social anxiety. And I wouldn't even condemn shyness or social anxiety as a focus on self like some people do. People who struggle with that need acceptance, not judgement, or people trying to fix them.

That's good, what the teacher said.

I'm shy - I don't see it as a negative thing, it's just unpractical for me sometimes, but I don't see how it affects other negatively.

Extraverted people are nice and all, but they can be so noisy sometimes. E.g. in a restaurant when they talk very loud so I can hear everything they did last month on vacation in Egypt while I'm sitting two tables away, trying to understand what my husband is saying to me in his soft sweet voice. I can't understand how introversion focuses on the self.

 

[fuzzymel]

Wow I think that must be a new bingo!

At least people are coming up with new ones. The typical ones get boring after a while.

p.s. I would have thought parents would teach their kids its not a good idea to talk to anyone. Its actually quite dangerous.

 

[mina]

wow! I can't believe what people say sometimes! I think people just love to hear themselves talk sometimes.

 

[invisiblebabe]

What?! What nonsense! "All children are naturally outgoing"- what a narrowminded comment! I have NEVER been outgoing at all, I was born an introvert.

Haha, exactly what I was thinking! Although today I'm by no means an extreme introvert, I am certainly no extrovert either. As a child, I was VERY quiet. My husband is way more introverted than I am, and he was that way as a kid too.

Come to think of it, all people who claim they "love" children ("because they're so outgoing") hated me as a child! Because I didn't fit into their box of what children are supposed to be: cheerful, shallow, outgoing, playful, noisy, cute, ignorant. (In other words: I was a melancholic, deep, introverted, reading, quiet, unattractive, intelligent know-it-all. Grownups HATE that.)

Aw. I would've liked you as a kid!

 

[Amélie Unbound]

So, I saw my "friend" again, and this time she tried to talk me into helping out with kids' day camp. She thinks it will be "good for me". She also "invited" me to a certain event that I have no interest in attending, and she wouldn't take no for an answer. I mean, I actually said no, and she still said she's coming to pick me up on Wednesday!

She also told my husband that he needs to learn to drive and that her husband will teach him. Never mind that he's completely content not having a driver's license. No, this is a problem that needs to be solved.

I am now realizing that this woman looks at people as projects. Find the flaws (or, more accurately, the ways that they are different), and then set about trying to fix them, whether the people want to be fixed or not.

This kind of thing does not go over well with me. I know I'm not perfect, but I just want to be accepted as I am. And the things about me and my husband that she wants to fix are not things that we see as flaws. They say the first step towards changing is having the desire to change. Well, when it comes to these issues (my introverted nature, my lack of interest in kids... and for my husband, his lack of a driver's license) I don't have that desire. I accept myself as I am. It's a shame others can't.

I want to take a step back from this woman and our so-called friendship, but I don't know if I can, because she's very persistent.

I feel like crying. Why do people have to be like this? I would never, absolutely never, treat someone like this.

 

[mina]

I hear ya! I'm a quiet and shy person and people are always trying to make me their little "project" and try to "fix" me. I was never broken, and truth be told i'd rather be like me than like them. It's insulting. I kind of feel sorry for people who just can't accept and love others despite their differences.

 

[Rebekka]

Argh, that is so frustrating!!!! She treats you like a child! Honestly, when someone doesn't take no for an answer - ignoring your wishes, says she'll pick you up anyway - this means that she doesn't respect your otherness. People are not projects. Grrrrr. DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR ON WEDNESDAY, because you said no, and no means NO!

I can relate to the driver's licence thing. Oh my, people nag about that even more than about my childfreedom, they see my not having a licence as a flaw, a phase, a thing that I should overcome. People can be so stubborn! They think they are better because they are "normal", because they have a driver's licence, or a car, or children, or a digital camera (when I was in Rome with my husband, one of the very few nasty moments was when two pupils laughed at me when they heard my film rewind - no one has non-digital cameras anymore, apparently. Well, we don't need one, our oldfashioned thing is good enough. We don't have a VCR, DVD player, ipod, microwave, dishwasher, dryer, etc. either. And this is our first ever computer, since 2005).

It's cruel to expose someone to children all day when she doesn't want to. It would be a punishment for me. It is so normal to think everything that involves kids is wonderful because kids are the most interesting, sweetest, purest and most innocent beings in the world - AND they are our future - that people can't imagine that someone disagrees. So your "friend" doesn't think you disagree, she thinks that you agree with her but that you don't know that yet! So she wants to educate you!

(Same as with catholics and birth control. The fact that I don't agree with my church's teaching must be because of my ignorance, and I should be educated. Then I will understand. Oh please. I've read every catholic document on birth control and I will never understand, in spite of my excellent mind.)

Big hug for you, Orchard! And get out of the house on Wednesday before she can pick you up - go to the zoo or something, or to the library, or a museum, or somewhere! (Or - I do this sometimes - turn off the doorbell!)

 

[Rembrandtfan]

So, I saw my "friend" again, and this time she tried to talk me into helping out with kids' day camp. She thinks it will be "good for me". She also "invited" me to a certain event that I have no interest in attending, and she wouldn't take no for an answer. I mean, I actually said no, and she still said she's coming to pick me up on Wednesday!

She also told my husband that he needs to learn to drive and that her husband will teach him. Never mind that he's completely content not having a driver's license. No, this is a problem that needs to be solved.

I am now realizing that this woman looks at people as projects. Find the flaws (or, more accurately, the ways that they are different), and then set about trying to fix them, whether the people want to be fixed or not.

This kind of thing does not go over well with me. I know I'm not perfect, but I just want to be accepted as I am. And the things about me and my husband that she wants to fix are not things that we see as flaws. They say the first step towards changing is having the desire to change. Well, when it comes to these issues (my introverted nature, my lack of interest in kids... and for my husband, his lack of a driver's license) I don't have that desire. I accept myself as I am. It's a shame others can't.

I want to take a step back from this woman and our so-called friendship, but I don't know if I can, because she's very persistent.

I feel like crying. Why do people have to be like this? I would never, absolutely never, treat someone like this.

Ew! It feels rotten to have someone communicate to you that you're unacceptable as you are and then to disrespect your boundaries on top of that. I've had friends and family like this and I have a hard time dealing with them. My tendency is to just pull away from them, but it seems like the more I pull away, the more they pursue.

Do you feel comfortable telling this woman how you really feel? Something along the lines of "I am content with my life the way it is, but it seems like you are trying to change me. I know you are just trying to help, but it communicates to me that you don't accept me for who I am, and I find that very hurtful." That way, you are making your voice heard without attacking her. And you are helping her to see how her actions are not only unhelpful, but also creating distance in the friendship.

 

[invisiblebabe]

So, I saw my "friend" again, and this time she tried to talk me into helping out with kids' day camp. She thinks it will be "good for me". She also "invited" me to a certain event that I have no interest in attending, and she wouldn't take no for an answer. I mean, I actually said no, and she still said she's coming to pick me up on Wednesday!

She also told my husband that he needs to learn to drive and that her husband will teach him. Never mind that he's completely content not having a driver's license. No, this is a problem that needs to be solved.

I am now realizing that this woman looks at people as projects. Find the flaws (or, more accurately, the ways that they are different), and then set about trying to fix them, whether the people want to be fixed or not.

This kind of thing does not go over well with me. I know I'm not perfect, but I just want to be accepted as I am. And the things about me and my husband that she wants to fix are not things that we see as flaws. They say the first step towards changing is having the desire to change. Well, when it comes to these issues (my introverted nature, my lack of interest in kids... and for my husband, his lack of a driver's license) I don't have that desire. I accept myself as I am. It's a shame others can't.

I want to take a step back from this woman and our so-called friendship, but I don't know if I can, because she's very persistent.

I feel like crying. Why do people have to be like this? I would never, absolutely never, treat someone like this.

Leave the house on Wednesday, or lock the doors and don't answer them. Hopefully she can take a hint.

If she can't, however.... the more direct approach would be to tell her to shove off. She's no friend to you.

 

[snoochface]

I guess I'm more confrontational when someone is abusing me (which I feel this woman is doing, even though I'm certain she does not mean it that way or even realize she is doing it). But if it were me, and she showed up at my door on Wednesday, I'd turn up the television or radio, run the vacuum, whatever, to make sure she knew I was indeed at home, but just not answering the door.

Honestly, I don't blame you for being hurt and frustrated, Orchard. She seems to have a real problem with people who are different from her. Maybe she grew up in a sheltered and rigid environment, I dunno. Maybe you should try to convert her and let her know how good it would be for her!

 

[Amélie Unbound]

Thank you all for the support.

I've just sent her an e-mail politely clarifying (again) that I will not be going on Wednesday.

If she still shows up, I won't answer the intercom. Fortunately, I live in a building with a controlled entry, so she can't actually get anywhere near my door unless I buzz her into the building, which I won't do.

I guess I'm more confrontational when someone is abusing me (which I feel this woman is doing, even though I'm certain she does not mean it that way or even realize she is doing it).

Yeah, I'm not very confrontational at all (in real life, I mean... I can be confrontational to strangers on forums ). The few times in my life I've tried to be, it hasn't gone well, and I've ended up feeling worse than I did before.

I agree she doesn't mean it that way. I honestly do believe she means well. Which is all the more reason I can't be rude to her.

Maybe she grew up in a sheltered and rigid environment, I dunno.

Yeah, I think she did.

You know what the funny thing is? She's trying to make me be more outgoing, but when I get treated like this, it just drives me even deeper into my shell. It makes me feel like being open to new friendships is more trouble than it's worth.

 

[invisiblebabe]

Thank you all for the support.

I've just sent her an e-mail politely clarifying (again) that I will not be going on Wednesday.

If she still shows up, I won't answer the intercom. Fortunately, I live in a building with a controlled entry, so she can't actually get anywhere near my door unless I buzz her into the building, which I won't do.

Good, so there's no way she can try and kidnap you!

You know what the funny thing is? She's trying to make me be more outgoing, but when I get treated like this, it just drives me even deeper into my shell. It makes me feel like being open to new friendships is more trouble than it's worth.

Yah, I have had people try and force me to be an extrovert, which only got me to be even more introverted and closed off around them... ironically, the only way she could get you to be more talkative and outgoing is to accept that you aren't that way

 

[fuzzymel]

I am so happy to hear there are others who dont drive!

I never had the desire and dont really see the need. It would just make me lazy and I can be pretty lazy anyway.

Anyway I really hope your friend takes note of your email.