Recent article by William Lane Craig suggests the historical Adam lived more than 750,000 years ago

[Job 33:6]

No-one is mentioning the generations of Adam to Jesus listed in the bible. How many generations not listed if this fabrication is true?
Luke 3:
The Genealogy of Jesus
(Ruth 4:18–22; Matthew 1:1–17)

23Jesus Himself was about thirty years old when He began His ministry.

He was regarded as the son of Joseph,

the son of Heli,24the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi,

the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,25the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum,

the son of Esli, the son of Naggai,26the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein,

the son of Josech, the son of Joda,27the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel,

the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri,28the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam,

the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,29the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim,

the son of Matthat, the son of Levi,30the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph,

the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,31the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha,

the son of Nathan, the son of David,32the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz,

the son of Sala,e the son of Nahshon,33the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin,f the son of Arni,g

the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah,34the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham,

the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,35the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg,

the son of Eber, the son of Shelah,36the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem,

the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,37the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared,

the son of Mahalalel, the son of Cainan,

38the son of Enosh,h the son of Seth, the son of Adam,

the son of God.

Footnotes:

6 a Literally And all flesh will see God’s salvation ; Isaiah 40:3–5 (see also LXX)
16 b Or in water 
16 c Cited in Acts 13:25
16 d Or in the Holy Spirit and in fire 
32 e BYZ and TR Salmon ; see Ruth 4:20–21 and Matthew 1:4–5.
33 f BYZ and TR Aram ; others Ram ; see Ruth 4:19 and Matthew 1:3–4.
33 g WH, BYZ, and TR do not include the son of Arni .
38 h Greek Enōs , a variant spelling of Enosh; see Genesis 5:6.

Most people of WLCs line of thought take Genesis more as a figurative history than literal history.

The book of Genesis, as per Claus Westermanns commentary on Genesis tells it well. Scripture has verses on pillars holding up the land which tremble (affirming a flat earth with dome perspective of ancient Hebrews), a solid dome which separates the waters from the waters (a dome being half a sphere that rests over the flat earth). Water passes through windows of the dome (affirming it's solid nature), birds fly across the face of the dome (affirming it's flat surface and further solid nature). God calls the dry ground "land" (not to be confused with a spherical earth which was never described in Genesis). The Hebrew word for firmament or expanse is actually a word used in relation to the spreading of metal, much like is done in blacksmithing when you spread metal by pressing or pulling it. So God "stretched" the "dome" over the earth, thereby separating waters from the waters. Hence why the sky is blue, because there is an ocean above the dome in which water passes through windows of the dome when opened.

References (try reading in original Hebrew word for word translations for more clarity).
1 Samuel 2:8 + job 9:6
Genesis 1:6
Genesis 7:11
Genesis 1:20

Its all scriptural. And every nation of that age, every tribe, also ascribed to flat earth beliefs in which if a person walked far enough they might reach the end of the earth and could even stick their hand through or climb through a window in the firmament to witness the heavens.

Genesis was never meant to be taken as a literal scientifially accurate history. And WLC is aware of this.

 

[sfs]

Genesis was never meant to be taken as a literal scientifially accurate history. And WLC is aware of this.

True -- but he does dispute the idea that the Hebrews believed the sky to be a solid dome.

 

[Estrid]

True -- but he does dispute the idea that the Hebrews believed the sky to be a solid dome.

The idea seems so outlandish now that it is hard to picture
people believing it.

Our maid here is from Philippines, a smart girl who just
did not get much education.

During covid days of not going out much, we talked a lot.

She thought the world is flat, as I learned when she asked how it could be
night here and day in New York.

It was so intetesting to see her expression as she adjusted to one
astonishing new revelation to another.
The earth is round, like an orange.
Tiny compared to sun. We orbit the sun.
Moon orbits us. There is no lizard causing
eclipses.
The sun is part of a galaxy...

Next i will start introducing her to evolution.

 

[sfs]

The idea seems so outlandish now that it is hard to picture
people believing it.

Craig's point is that there's very little reason for thinking they did believe it.

 

[Job 33:6]

True -- but he does dispute the idea that the Hebrews believed the sky to be a solid dome.

I think at the end of the day we are left with two options. We either take Genesis literally at its word and conclude that the ancient Hebrews were flat earthers (to be fair, what else would they be? It's not like they had satellites or the pythagorean theorem). Or we assume Genesis isn't meant to be taken literally with respect to things like the global flood.

And we can dance around that game all day, but in the end, either of these options still stand in stark contrast to YECism.

So thank you for pinpointing Craig's position. Maybe ancient Hebrews were divided over how far earth went or what the dome was made of or what the windows looked like. I think WLC is dancing that same line, where he knows that Genesis isn't literally accurate scientific history (I think he calls it mytho-history?), and he's just trying not to go too far beyond that conclusion.

Imo, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck etc., Sometimes you just have to call it a duck. Let the cards fall as they are and let the implications be what they are.

 

[mikeforjesus]

Okay.

I feel like that's a remarkably unconvincing response to a diverse set of evidence.

the reason I said it is not definitive is because I don’t believe one has explored all the evidence and it can be found if one seeks but anyway the bible says faith is the evidence of things not seen because anyway there needs not to be known evidence of a flood there is not complete proof there was not as one has not studied all the evidence and one could find there is. There is evidence here.

Worldwide Flood, Worldwide Evidence

some said also there is evidence of a flood but they date it to about 12000 years supposedly they don’t know it was worldwide dating can be done wrong because of changes in earth

the species you say existed before may have had similar DNA but DNA does not make one a human we can share with animals physical characteristics but DNA does not show evidence of person being able to think as one who has a spirit to think towards God just mental abilities

As my dad told me

God wants people to receive Him with heart not mind pride is to think you can know everything when you are a limited creature there are answers but if you don’t know it does that mean you know everything because you don’t know
Still I believe it is good to study apologetics to give answer

 

[Shemjaza]

the reason I said it is not definitive is because I don’t believe one has explored all the evidence and it can be found if one seeks but anyway the bible says faith is the evidence of things not seen because anyway there needs not to be known evidence of a flood there is not complete proof there was not as one has not studied all the evidence and one could find there is. There is evidence here.

Worldwide Flood, Worldwide Evidence

some said also there is evidence of a flood but they date it to about 12000 years supposedly they don’t know it was worldwide dating can be done wrong because of changes in earth

Going into details of all the individual points on the Answers In Genesis page would derail this thread. If you find it convincing, please start another thread about it and I will participate. But in essence those points are massively misleading and leave out important details: ignoring the evidence of continental uplift, ignoring the evidence that individual sedimentary layers over an area clearly formed independently due to structures built upon lower layers. And it ignores that marine fossils "found on top of mountains" are actually found within mountains and have literally been turned to stone.

the species you say existed before may have had similar DNA but DNA does not make one a human we can share with animals physical characteristics but DNA does not show evidence of person being able to think as one who has a spirit to think towards God just mental abilities

DNA does not show evidence of being able to have abstract thoughts like philosophy or faith.

But the other evidence of tool crafting certainly demonstrates an ability to think unlike any non human living in the world today.

You can't look at evidence and be 100% certain of anything... but you can examine what is more consistent with evidence and thus more reasonable.

As my dad told me

God wants people to receive Him with heart not mind pride is to think you can know everything when you are a limited creature there are answers but if you don’t know it does that mean you know everything because you don’t know
Still I believe it is good to study apologetics to give answer

The problem is that doesn't help us find what is true. We can demonstrate why evidence is a reliable way to get closer to the truth... but you can't show truth from faith alone. Every pagan and other kind of Christian also have faith in their God or gods.

 

[mikeforjesus]

Even if that site is not very convincing I thought it could be true I didn’t consider what you said yet still that does not mean there is not evidence if one seeks but one should have faith because one could not have explored all evidence and we know there is a God as creation proves it and if bible is not true no one has shown any other thing that is true and God would be guilty not to communicate with mankind as even our conscience testifies what is right and wrong the need for justice and the guilt of our conscience that we deserve judgement because of our sins against God to disregard and ignore our faithfulness to our creator not being perfected falling short of His glory so we need the righteousness of God for God to be able to take away our sins to present us perfect through His covering so He doesn’t look to our sins if we repent to one day be able to take it completely from us

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Even if that site is not very convincing I thought it could be true I didn’t consider what you said yet still that does not mean there is not evidence if one seeks but one should have faith because one could not have explored all evidence and we know there is a God as creation proves it and if bible is not true no one has shown any other thing that is true and God would be guilty not to communicate with mankind as even our conscience testifies what is right and wrong the need for justice and the guilt of our conscience that we deserve judgement because of our sins against God to disregard and ignore our faithfulness to our creator not being perfected falling short of His glory so we need the righteousness of God for God to be able to take away our sins to present us perfect through His covering so He doesn’t look to our sins if we repent to one day be able to take it completely from us

The problem is that all that only makes sense if you already believe. For a non-believer, it is all unnecessary. We have tried and tested ways of acquiring knowledge, and uncertainty and lack of knowledge are the motivators; but, as philosophers through the ages have noted, the only thing we can be certain of is that we can't be absolutely certain of what we know. We should try to reduce that uncertainty, but we shouldn't be afraid of it.

 

[mikeforjesus]

We can be very well certain there is a God it is evident in the fact that nothing can exist without a beginning and we can’t all have existed from the beginning and if we were one really from beginning as though we are not different but that we became so which is the only way to try to avoid believing in God which even an atheist would not want to say as that would mean evil actions are commited against self and no real injury is done that can not be removed and that would not be possible without the will of one ruling the universe and how then is the universe being ruled by who if no one knows what happend and can prove complete divinity to do unique signs possible only God can do that prove one divinity as Jesus raised the dead one you can’t mimic even greater if he claims biblical God is not true greater than raise the dead to have control on ones body on a believer to do anything to it without compulsion not just some and to completely control the heavens and oceans so that proves there is a God and it is not us and ones actions ofcourse really are directed against others with consequences as one does really harm another and as I showed above as we all sin against God we need Him

 

[Subduction Zone]

We can be very well certain there is a God it is evident in the fact that nothing can exist without a beginning and we can’t all have existed from the beginning and if we were one really from beginning as though we are not different but that we became so which is the only way to try to avoid believing in God which even an atheist would not want to say as that would mean evil actions are commited against self and no real injury is done that can not be removed and that would not be possible without the will of one ruling the universe and how then is the universe being ruled by who if no one knows what happend and can prove complete divinity to do unique signs possible only God can do that prove one divinity as Jesus raised the dead one you can’t mimic even greater if he claims biblical God is not true greater than raise the dead to have control on ones body on a believer to do anything to it without compulsion not just some and to completely control the heavens and oceans so that proves there is a God and it is not us and ones actions ofcourse really are directed against others with consequences as one does really harm another and as I showed above as we all sin against God we need Him

No, this is just an argument from ignorance. That is a logical fallacy. Just because you do not know how the universe as we know it began is never an excuse to stick a God in there.

That means that all that follows your opening line was just pointless word salad.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

We can be very well certain there is a God it is evident in the fact that nothing can exist without a beginning and we can’t all have existed from the beginning and if we were one really from beginning as though we are not different but that we became so which is the only way to try to avoid believing in God which even an atheist would not want to say as that would mean evil actions are commited against self and no real injury is done that can not be removed and that would not be possible without the will of one ruling the universe and how then is the universe being ruled by who if no one knows what happend and can prove complete divinity to do unique signs possible only God can do that prove one divinity as Jesus raised the dead one you can’t mimic even greater if he claims biblical God is not true greater than raise the dead to have control on ones body on a believer to do anything to it without compulsion not just some and to completely control the heavens and oceans so that proves there is a God and it is not us and ones actions ofcourse really are directed against others with consequences as one does really harm another and as I showed above as we all sin against God we need Him

Same old story - if it's a "fact that nothing can exist without a beginning", then either God doesn't exist or God must have a beginning.

Oh wait... special pleading

But, of course, everything we know about the world tells us that things only 'begin to exist' in the sense of being pre-existing stuff rearranged into a new form. As far as we can tell, that applies to the universe itself.

 

[mikeforjesus]

God is the great I Am He is the beginning that which can not be understood is He that is what makes Him God He is there from eternity outside of time time is something that we are aware of having a start and end changes but He is existing as He is always outside of time being the beginning and the end that is He is the only one who has no beginning and no end in Himself knowing how the end will be as He has power to direct everything according to what He said having provided provision for all possible situations knowing all situations being God

it is a choice to believe or not anyway when you know you do not know as you can not prove it wrong and belief is the only reasonable thing how can matter exist by itself and how can it give birth to living soul with mind that thinks about its source to have capacity to seek to know it to pray unlike animals

so Jesus said to His disciples you believe in God believe also in Me

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

God is the great I Am He is the beginning that which can not be understood is He that is what makes Him God He is there from eternity outside of time time is something that we are aware of having a start and end changes but He is existing as He is always outside of time being the beginning and the end that is He is the only one who has no beginning and no end in Himself knowing how the end will be as He has power to direct everything according to what He said having provided provision for all possible situations knowing all situations being God

These are the science forums; assertions should be supported with evidence or reasoned argument. Hitchens' razor applies: "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."

it is a choice to believe or not anyway when you know you do not know as you can not prove it wrong and belief is the only reasonable thing how can matter exist by itself and how can it give birth to living soul with mind that thinks about its source to have capacity to seek to know it to pray unlike animals.

There are thousands of religions with all kinds of beliefs, none of which can be proved wrong.

David Hume said in the 18th century, “The wise man…proportions his beliefs to the evidence.” The reason religious beliefs can't be proved wrong is that there is no more evidence for them than there is for the invisible dragon in my garage.

 

[NxNW]

We can be very well certain there is a God it is evident in the fact that nothing can exist without a beginning and we can’t all have existed from the beginning and if we were one really from beginning as though we are not different but that we became so which is the only way to try to avoid believing in God which even an atheist would not want to say as that would mean evil actions are commited against self and no real injury is done that can not be removed and that would not be possible without the will of one ruling the universe and how then is the universe being ruled by who if no one knows what happend and can prove complete divinity to do unique signs possible only God can do that prove one divinity as Jesus raised the dead one you can’t mimic even greater if he claims biblical God is not true greater than raise the dead to have control on ones body on a believer to do anything to it without compulsion not just some and to completely control the heavens and oceans so that proves there is a God and it is not us and ones actions ofcourse really are directed against others with consequences as one does really harm another and as I showed above as we all sin against God we need Him

Punctuation is your friend!

 

[zippy2006]

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2021/10/the-historical-adam

There is now a short response on First Things, a critique by an Evangelical:

"Doubts about William Lane Craig's Creation Account," by Peter Leithart​

Craig responds: "Mytho-History in Genesis."

Kemp chimes in: "The Science of Adam."