Recent article by William Lane Craig suggests the historical Adam lived more than 750,000 years ago

public hermit

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WLC embraces both sacred myth and some current scientific understandings to locate the historical Adam.

Given the recent archaeological findings, Adam and Eve may plausibly be identified as belonging to the last common ancestor of Homo sapiens and Neanderthals, usually denominated Homo heidelbergensis or Heidelberg Man, living more than 750,000 years ago. Heidelberg Man was not some strange ape-man, but was recognizably human, with a cranial capacity of 1,260 cubic centimeters, well within the modern range. It is noteworthy that population genetics—a subfield of evolutionary biology dealing with genetic differences within and among populations—does not rule out the existence of two sole genetic progenitors of the human race living more than 500,000 years ago. The mythic history of Genesis is fully consistent with current scientific evidence concerning human origins.

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2021/10/the-historical-adam

Thoughts?
 

2PhiloVoid

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WLC embraces both sacred myth and some current scientific understandings to locate the historical Adam.

Given the recent archaeological findings, Adam and Eve may plausibly be identified as belonging to the last common ancestor of Homo sapiens and Neanderthals, usually denominated Homo heidelbergensis or Heidelberg Man, living more than 750,000 years ago. Heidelberg Man was not some strange ape-man, but was recognizably human, with a cranial capacity of 1,260 cubic centimeters, well within the modern range. It is noteworthy that population genetics—a subfield of evolutionary biology dealing with genetic differences within and among populations—does not rule out the existence of two sole genetic progenitors of the human race living more than 500,000 years ago. The mythic history of Genesis is fully consistent with current scientific evidence concerning human origins.

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2021/10/the-historical-adam

Thoughts?

I saw something about this in an atheist vid featuring WLC and Sean McDowell, and they were talking about this very thing. I may have to pass this onto my son for consideration since this is one of his 'sticking points' with the Christian faith at the moment and a nice, tightly written academic article might be something he can bite on.

Interesting stuff! I'm not sure I'd frame it in this way, but I appreciate that WLC makes some concession to the idea that truth about the nature of our world is bigger than the ancient description that we find in the Bible (or more specifically, in Genesis).

Great post, there, PH! Thanks for this! :cool:
 
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Mark Quayle

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WLC embraces both sacred myth and some current scientific understandings to locate the historical Adam.

Given the recent archaeological findings, Adam and Eve may plausibly be identified as belonging to the last common ancestor of Homo sapiens and Neanderthals, usually denominated Homo heidelbergensis or Heidelberg Man, living more than 750,000 years ago. Heidelberg Man was not some strange ape-man, but was recognizably human, with a cranial capacity of 1,260 cubic centimeters, well within the modern range. It is noteworthy that population genetics—a subfield of evolutionary biology dealing with genetic differences within and among populations—does not rule out the existence of two sole genetic progenitors of the human race living more than 500,000 years ago. The mythic history of Genesis is fully consistent with current scientific evidence concerning human origins.

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2021/10/the-historical-adam

Thoughts?
'Embraces' is a nice, vague word. Does this mean he believes Genesis is myth, and Evolution is fact?
 
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Abaxvahl

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WLC embraces both sacred myth and some current scientific understandings to locate the historical Adam.

Given the recent archaeological findings, Adam and Eve may plausibly be identified as belonging to the last common ancestor of Homo sapiens and Neanderthals, usually denominated Homo heidelbergensis or Heidelberg Man, living more than 750,000 years ago. Heidelberg Man was not some strange ape-man, but was recognizably human, with a cranial capacity of 1,260 cubic centimeters, well within the modern range. It is noteworthy that population genetics—a subfield of evolutionary biology dealing with genetic differences within and among populations—does not rule out the existence of two sole genetic progenitors of the human race living more than 500,000 years ago. The mythic history of Genesis is fully consistent with current scientific evidence concerning human origins.

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2021/10/the-historical-adam

Thoughts?

Not a fan of the many assumptions made in the article which aren't justified, such as breaking Gen 1-11 from Gen 12 as mytho-history when many would say the same of the majority of the OT (despite the narrative not doing this at all), assuming what is fantastic to the author when he doesn't know him, assuming it being problematic that the Patriarchs lived as long as they did, assuming an opposition of metaphor and true history, opposition of historical Adam and literary Adam, etc. Moreover his 10-point summary of the beginning of Genesis for some reason ignores what I'd say is another truth of it: that man is the priest of creation and it fell with him and will be redeemed with him (Gen 3 and Rom 8, see St. Maximus and St. Irenaeus on this also). I'd want a more full treatment of all of these assumptions, their history, and justification.

I'm fine with his conclusion if this is what interests him though, it is not a matter of division as long as the faith is held.
 
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public hermit

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'Embraces' is a nice, vague word. Does this mean he believes Genesis is myth, and Evolution is fact?

Are you unable to access the article? My apologies if not, but I was able to access and I'm not a subscriber to First Things.
 
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The IbanezerScrooge

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I think he's talking about "Mitochondrial Eve" and "Y Chromosome Adam" and while you can say "science does not rule out sole progenitors" it's important to understand that these progenitors, from a scientific view, likely did not live at the same time being separated by several tens of thousands years at a minimum and that these would be the "sole progenitors" only of people living today, not the whole human species. There were other people living at the same time whose lineages have died out and are no longer represented in the current population of humans on the planet.
 
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Estrid

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WLC embraces both sacred myth and some current scientific understandings to locate the historical Adam.

Given the recent archaeological findings, Adam and Eve may plausibly be identified as belonging to the last common ancestor of Homo sapiens and Neanderthals, usually denominated Homo heidelbergensis or Heidelberg Man, living more than 750,000 years ago. Heidelberg Man was not some strange ape-man, but was recognizably human, with a cranial capacity of 1,260 cubic centimeters, well within the modern range. It is noteworthy that population genetics—a subfield of evolutionary biology dealing with genetic differences within and among populations—does not rule out the existence of two sole genetic progenitors of the human race living more than 500,000 years ago. The mythic history of Genesis is fully consistent with current scientific evidence concerning human origins.

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2021/10/the-historical-adam

Thoughts?

Fully?
 
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No-one is mentioning the generations of Adam to Jesus listed in the bible. How many generations not listed if this fabrication is true?
Luke 3:
The Genealogy of Jesus
(Ruth 4:18–22; Matthew 1:1–17)

23Jesus Himself was about thirty years old when He began His ministry.

He was regarded as the son of Joseph,

the son of Heli,24the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi,

the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,25the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum,

the son of Esli, the son of Naggai,26the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein,

the son of Josech, the son of Joda,27the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel,

the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri,28the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam,

the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,29the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim,

the son of Matthat, the son of Levi,30the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph,

the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,31the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha,

the son of Nathan, the son of David,32the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz,

the son of Sala,e the son of Nahshon,33the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin,f the son of Arni,g

the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah,34the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham,

the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,35the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg,

the son of Eber, the son of Shelah,36the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem,

the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,37the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared,

the son of Mahalalel, the son of Cainan,

38the son of Enosh,h the son of Seth, the son of Adam,

the son of God.

Footnotes:

6 a Literally And all flesh will see God’s salvation ; Isaiah 40:3–5 (see also LXX)
16 b Or in water
16 c Cited in Acts 13:25
16 d Or in the Holy Spirit and in fire
32 e BYZ and TR Salmon ; see Ruth 4:20–21 and Matthew 1:4–5.
33 f BYZ and TR Aram ; others Ram ; see Ruth 4:19 and Matthew 1:3–4.
33 g WH, BYZ, and TR do not include the son of Arni .
38 h Greek Enōs , a variant spelling of Enosh; see Genesis 5:6.
 
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Estrid

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No-one is mentioning the generations of Adam to Jesus listed in the bible. How many generations not listed if this fabrication is true?
Luke 3:
The Genealogy of Jesus
(Ruth 4:18–22; Matthew 1:1–17)

23Jesus Himself was about thirty years old when He began His ministry.

He was regarded as the son of Joseph,

the son of Heli,24the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi,

the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,25the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum,

the son of Esli, the son of Naggai,26the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein,

the son of Josech, the son of Joda,27the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel,

the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri,28the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam,

the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,29the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim,

the son of Matthat, the son of Levi,30the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph,

the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,31the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha,

the son of Nathan, the son of David,32the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz,

the son of Sala,e the son of Nahshon,33the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin,f the son of Arni,g

the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah,34the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham,

the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,35the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg,

the son of Eber, the son of Shelah,36the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem,

the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,37the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared,

the son of Mahalalel, the son of Cainan,

38the son of Enosh,h the son of Seth, the son of Adam,

the son of God.

Footnotes:

6 a Literally And all flesh will see God’s salvation ; Isaiah 40:3–5 (see also LXX)
16 b Or in water
16 c Cited in Acts 13:25
16 d Or in the Holy Spirit and in fire
32 e BYZ and TR Salmon ; see Ruth 4:20–21 and Matthew 1:4–5.
33 f BYZ and TR Aram ; others Ram ; see Ruth 4:19 and Matthew 1:3–4.
33 g WH, BYZ, and TR do not include the son of Arni .
38 h Greek Enōs , a variant spelling of Enosh; see Genesis 5:6.

A "fabrication" is a lie.
Do you mean it could be true, or,
that it is a lie?
Much of what is in the Bible is precise,
but not accurate.
Easy example, the use of "cubits". One can
speak of "30 cubits", say, but this number is
neither precise nor accurate.

The age of modern man cannot be given
precisely either, but Homo species were
using fire at least a million years ago.

We don't know where the OT genealogy
comes from, but few I think would believe
it was dictated to someone by God.
Human traditions are subject to much error.
 
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Estrid

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I suppose I could have been more clear with how I wrote. Fabrication referred to the fable about Adam having existed 750,000 years ago.

There is no such fable.

That would be the fabrication of a fable.

Did you understand what I said re precision and accuracy?
 
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Occams Barber

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I suppose I could have been more clear with how I wrote. Fabrication referred to the fable about Adam having existed 750,000 years ago.

WLC obviously has a view of scripture which differs from yours. This doesn't mean he's fabricating something. I don't generally agree with WLC but I would never accuse him of lying simply because he has a different opinion.

This intemperate attitude which says that "if you disagree with me you must be lying" seems to be a standard response among some of the more zealous Christians around CF. It's particularly common to see evolution, for instance, referred to as a 'lie' - an indirect insult to Christians (and non-Christians) who honestly accept evolution.

Hopefully CF has room for more than one genuine opinion.

OB
 
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Tanj

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I think he's talking about "Mitochondrial Eve" and "Y Chromosome Adam" and while you can say "science does not rule out sole progenitors" it's important to understand that these progenitors, from a scientific view, likely did not live at the same time being separated by several tens of thousands years at a minimum and that these would be the "sole progenitors" only of people living today, not the whole human species. There were other people living at the same time whose lineages have died out and are no longer represented in the current population of humans on the planet.

Actually it's more than that. They are not the sole progenitors, just the sole source of 2 our 24 chromosomes. There's nothing to suggest other people were not involved in the rest of the genetic makeup.
 
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Shemjaza

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I'm unconvinced you can scientifically justify all the genetic diversity of all humans, Neanderthals, Denesova and more from only two literal ancestors without them going extinct.

It also leads to a very strange issue where Homo erectus is an animal, but Homo heidelbergensis is a man.

heidelbergensis-erectus.png


(Maybe we're back to the old: "What is the measure of a man?" "...it's the pointy nose.")
 
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