Receiving Messages....

[cvanwey]

Many claim God speaks to them, or are directed from above. Thus, I have asked many the following question, and am curious of what the intellectuals of this arena might provide, in an answer.

How can one distinguish a message from God, verses from Satan, verses from another opposing God, verses from your own self, verses another source?

What mechanism is used? (i.e.)... Is it concluded to be from the told story of the knowledge of 'good' and 'evil', as the OT lays forth? Other?

For example.... You feel compelled to do this or that.... How might you conclude the influences to do as such were from supernatural means (spiritual/god/satan/other), vs merely the natural?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

None.

Spirit to spirit.
or "in spirit". (Ekklesia are IN UNION with Jesus and His Father, daily living echad, as one)

What mechanism is used?

 

[bèlla]

Satan's messages to me speak to my flesh. They are never blatantly against the Word because I'm pretty knowledgeable of it. Or they're singular in nature. It never points to God but will focus on one subject to an extent that exceeds anything else.

He was belligerent in the past but that rarely occurs. And he tempts me as well. Oftentimes I know he's doing it and he chooses things I want to do. The Holy Spirit will get involved and remind me otherwise. There have been instances when I've been told the spiritual consequences I'll suffer if the behavior continues and the difficulty of its removal.

He affects my relationships with the opposite sex most of all. I'm naturally attracted to men who happen to be atheists. And I don't find the qualities that appeal to me in others in manner I want. I don't date them and I'm uninspired by the other options. So I'm mindful of prospects for obvious reasons. ;-)

 

[zephcom]

Many claim God speaks to them, or are directed from above. Thus, I have asked many the following question, and am curious of what the intellectuals of this arena might provide, in an answer.

How can one distinguish a message from God, verses from Satan, verses from another opposing God, verses from your own self, verses another source?

What mechanism is used? (i.e.)... Is it concluded to be from the told story of the knowledge of 'good' and 'evil', as the OT lays forth? Other?

For example.... You feel compelled to do this or that.... How might you conclude the influences to do as such were from supernatural means (spiritual/god/satan/other), vs merely the natural?

I've asked the same question over the years and have never received a satisfactory answer.

I have a friend who says God talks to him all the time. I told him once that just because one hears voices in their head does not mean it is God talking. His immediate response was 'Yes it does'.

On the positive side, his voice hasn't told him to harm anyone yet so I just let it slide.

I've thought about it over the years and have never been able to create a 'test' which would allow me to determine whether it is God or not should I start hearing things that aren't there.

 

[“Paisios”]

Many claim God speaks to them, or are directed from above. Thus, I have asked many the following question, and am curious of what the intellectuals of this arena might provide, in an answer.

How can one distinguish a message from God, verses from Satan, verses from another opposing God, verses from your own self, verses another source?

What mechanism is used? (i.e.)... Is it concluded to be from the told story of the knowledge of 'good' and 'evil', as the OT lays forth? Other?

For example.... You feel compelled to do this or that.... How might you conclude the influences to do as such were from supernatural means (spiritual/god/satan/other), vs merely the natural?

I believe that I have encountered God directly on two occasions (though I stand open to correction). I believe this for a few reasons:

1. The messages given to me were entirely consistent with the Gospel message in Scripture and as handed down in the history of the church;
2. These encounters came at times in my life when I most needed “evidence” of God’s existence and caring;
3. The results of these two encounters have changed my life for more than 30 years in ways that has no other experience in my life come close.

I don’t have evidence that would convince others, but these encounters were overwhelming and pointed me towards Him, radically changing my life. It is enough for me.

 

[disciple Clint]

Many claim God speaks to them, or are directed from above. Thus, I have asked many the following question, and am curious of what the intellectuals of this arena might provide, in an answer.

How can one distinguish a message from God, verses from Satan, verses from another opposing God, verses from your own self, verses another source?

What mechanism is used? (i.e.)... Is it concluded to be from the told story of the knowledge of 'good' and 'evil', as the OT lays forth? Other?

For example.... You feel compelled to do this or that.... How might you conclude the influences to do as such were from supernatural means (spiritual/god/satan/other), vs merely the natural?

When God speaks you will know it without doubt.

 

[cvanwey]

When God speaks you will know it without doubt.

Many people of opposing belief systems state the very same thing. Using Occam's razor...

A) Is it more likely all other believers in their opposing religions are mistaken, and they are merely manifesting thoughts from their own brains, in which they instead 'translate' to be from their god(s)?

(or).....

B) That they too are also actually receiving contact from their believed god(s) as well?

In other words, 1) only the Christian believers are receiving the messages from their believed God, 2) and all opposing believers, in their made up believed gods, are either misinterpreting contact - as such received 'contact' is instead coming from Yahweh or are instead self manifested?

Millions pray daily to their opposing deities; who sincerely and earnestly profess contact from their believed god(s). How might you explain such a phenomenon? Are they all delusional, mistaken, lying, or other? What method is used to verify reality/truth?

 

[cvanwey]

He was belligerent in the past but that rarely occurs. And he tempts me as well. Oftentimes I know he's doing it and he chooses things I want to do. The Holy Spirit will get involved and remind me otherwise. There have been instances when I've been told the spiritual consequences I'll suffer if the behavior continues and the difficulty of its removal.

So it sounds to me like you are saying that you communicate with both God and the devil? How do you know it is not merely instead your own consciousness, which is controlled by natural brain states, which drives your knowledge to the general learned consequences of your actions?

I will give you a brief example...

When my son was 2 years old, I was trying to take a nap on the couch. As I was getting ready to close my eyes, my son ran up to me, smacked me in the face, and laughed. He had no idea of the consequences, or that what he did was 'wrong'. He was oblivious to it being 'bad.' But now, he is the most well mannered person I know; wouldn't hardly hurt a fly.

So I ask... If the knowledge of 'good' and 'bad' was implanted by God, when does it start? (i.e.) at birth, childhood, adolescence, adulthood - (conveniently and coincidentally after the learned experiences of consequentialism)?

 

[cvanwey]

1. The messages given to me
2. These encounters came

Thank you for your earnest response. Though I am not doubting your belief, your response does not appear to demonstrate how you know these messages/encounters were not instead from anything other than your own brain manifesting their own thoughts, more likely from prior repetitive readings from the Bible. Would you mind elaborating?

 

[bèlla]

So it sounds to me like you are saying that you communicate with both God and the devil? How do you know it is not merely instead your own consciousness, which is controlled by natural brain states, which drives your knowledge to the general learned consequences of your actions?

I had one year of demonic torment prior to deliverance. It would be pointless to spin rhetoric that I'd never believe. I have a gift of discernment. A lot of the belligerence happened early.

 

[cvanwey]

I had one year of demonic torment prior to deliverance. It would be pointless to spin rhetoric that I'd never believe. I have a gift of discernment. A lot of the belligerence happened early.

When you've had something demonic impact you on every plane then we can talk. But until you've felt the indignity of their touch and the violation that follows we have little to discuss. No natural mind could conceive that reality.

If this 'demonic torment' was going on for a full year, I would assume you sought help, acquired ample demonstrable evidence, and can provide documented findings to substantiate such a claim????

I would also assume such experiences, for an entire year, underwent ample peer review, is well documented, and supported and reported by impartial and unbiased faculty? If so, I would be more than happy to read about such findings. Because to not pursue such endeavors would be preposterous, quite frankly. If you were contacted by unnatural forces for an entire year, it would only appear to the common senses to have it investigated by many peers whom could substantiate such a large claim...

In which case, we can then finally lay to rest the age old question, asked for thousands of recordable years now, of whether or not the devil or demons actually exist?

Otherwise, one-off anecdotal attestations are a dime a dozen.

 

[disciple Clint]

Many people of opposing belief systems state the very same thing. Using Occam's razor...

A) Is it more likely all other believers in their opposing religions are mistaken, and they are merely manifesting thoughts from their own brains, in which they instead 'translate' to be from their god(s)?

(or).....

B) That they too are also actually receiving contact from their believed god(s) as well?

In other words, 1) only the Christian believers are receiving the messages from their believed God, 2) and all opposing believers, in their made up believed gods, are either misinterpreting contact - as such received 'contact' is instead coming from Yahweh or are instead self manifested?

Millions pray daily to their opposing deities; who sincerely and earnestly profess contact from their believed god(s). How might you explain such a phenomenon? Are they all delusional, mistaken, lying, or other? What method is used to verify reality/truth?

I can only speak about my experience. God told me things that I did not know and had not thought about and at the time I shared these things and others had serious doubts that they would happen. Those things and others have come to pass, just a God said they would. There is such a peace and certainty when God speaks that you know that the information came from God and only God.

 

[cvanwey]

I can only speak about my experience. God told me things that I did not know and had not thought about and at the time I shared these things and others had serious doubts that they would happen.

Such as?

 

[disciple Clint]

Such as?

they were all things that were personal to me or my family nothing about others or world events or any of those things.

 

[“Paisios”]

Thank you for your earnest response. Though I am not doubting your belief, your response does not appear to demonstrate how you know these messages/encounters were not instead from anything other than your own brain manifesting their own thoughts, more likely from prior repetitive readings from the Bible. Would you mind elaborating?

I fully admit that is a real possibility. I don’t think I can provide any proof that would satisfy you. I am taking it on faith because of the reasons I mentioned above, especially that these events were so overwhelming and life changing and unlike anything before or since. But yeah, it could all just be in my head, in which case I’m glad my brain decided to choose the light rather than the dark.

(That it would come from repetitive readings of the Bible is unlikely though, in the first case, as the church I grew up in didn’t do much Bible reading, and I never really started reading the Bible until long after the first experience.)

 

[bèlla]

Otherwise, one-off anecdotal attestations are a dime a dozen.

When I read the thread I assumed you wanted genuine answers. But, I neglected to look at your profile. That was my mistake.

 

[Tinker Grey]

When I read the thread I assumed you wanted genuine answers. But, I neglected to look at your profile. That was my mistake.

[aside]Like your avatar[/aside]

So how'd you think this would go?

@cvanwey: I don't believe in messages from gods.
You: I had one
Him: Well, okay then.

 

[zephcom]

Many people of opposing belief systems state the very same thing. Using Occam's razor...

A) Is it more likely all other believers in their opposing religions are mistaken, and they are merely manifesting thoughts from their own brains, in which they instead 'translate' to be from their god(s)?

(or).....

B) That they too are also actually receiving contact from their believed god(s) as well?

In other words, 1) only the Christian believers are receiving the messages from their believed God, 2) and all opposing believers, in their made up believed gods, are either misinterpreting contact - as such received 'contact' is instead coming from Yahweh or are instead self manifested?

Millions pray daily to their opposing deities; who sincerely and earnestly profess contact from their believed god(s). How might you explain such a phenomenon? Are they all delusional, mistaken, lying, or other? What method is used to verify reality/truth?

I suppose there could be a C) option as well. That option would be that access to God is possible regardless of one's religion of lack of religion. IOW, God doesn't have a favored religion or any religion at all. In that case, anyone or everyone could be hearing directly from God.

That is why I have tried to develop a method in which one could accurately identify God from all other possible reasons why someone would perceive they are receiving messages.

It is a lot like that scam going around in which someone tries to get money from you by calling and claiming your grandchild is in prison and needs bail money. Assuming you do have an adult grandchild, it is a possibility that it is true. It is much more likely to be a scam.

In this world, one can do some research, like calling your grandchild, before deciding to trust the voice on the phone. That kind of option doesn't exist in the case of messages appearing in your mind.

Some people are more susceptible to scams like this and the scammers make a decent living. I suspect that there are people willing to accept voices in their head as being from God because their religion has prepped them to 'expect' messages from God.

I'm pretty certain that is the case with my friend that I mentioned before. He didn't hear from God until he joined a church in which that was 'expected' from the more favored people in the church.

I really don't think that there exists a way to conclusively identify messages from God as opposed to all the other ways people hear things in their mind. We simply don't have the proper tools to accomplish that task.

 

[John 1720]

Many claim God speaks to them, or are directed from above. Thus, I have asked many the following question, and am curious of what the intellectuals of this arena might provide, in an answer.

How can one distinguish a message from God, verses from Satan, verses from another opposing God, verses from your own self, verses another source?

What mechanism is used? (i.e.)... Is it concluded to be from the told story of the knowledge of 'good' and 'evil', as the OT lays forth? Other?

For example.... You feel compelled to do this or that.... How might you conclude the influences to do as such were from supernatural means (spiritual/god/satan/other), vs merely the natural?

Dear Sir,
That is a very good and a most excellent question. I'll preface it by stating that Christians can also be deceived, just as the rest of the world can by evil. This is true, although God has provided us with both adequate discernment and teaching for all those who trusting in His Son, the Christ. There are empirical evidences of God's people being deceived as well. They are not only in the Bible but in acts seen all the way up through our day as well. That said, there is also plenty of empirical evidences that Christ's disciples were led by the 'voice of God' or the 'prompting of the Holy Spirit'. So, I think it is important to understand how we can both have victory in following the Spirit's lead, as well as explore why we sometimes fail to discern correctly the leading of God and run amuck.

Firstly, it is a core article of faith that, as Christians, we are given the ability to discern the promptings of God. When we are 'hearing' from God's own heart, (1) or others claiming prophetic utterance, we are taught to test the spirit as to whether the source is from above or below. I would add that God does this for the unregenerate as well; otherwise no one would ever come to faith upon hearing the Gospel. However, for the sake of brevity, I will only cover the case for Christians, who are being directed to follow the Will of God.

Secondly, the gift of discernment is a bonafide disbursement of the Holy Spirit. It is given in some measure to everyone who experiences a spiritual rebirth in Christ. Our postulate is then backed up in the exegesis that Jesus taught us that in our spiritual rebirth the the abiding Spirit of God is available to all who ask.

• Luke 11:13 “If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

Our regenerate spiritual nature is then changed from following after the selfish desires and lusts of the flesh by the conception, or rebirth, of God's Spirit within us (this is where we get the phrase 'born again'). We are no longer conformed to the pattern of this world but renewed in our hearts and minds to be a journey that conforms to following the Will of God. That Will of God is manifestly His expression of love for all Creation and is centered in the Gospel. Submitting ourselves to the Spirit is never a passive act and it has carried many of us into working among the most despised and despondent among us, as well as sending us to every corner of the glove, so that every ethnicity may hear the Good New of Jesus Christ and experience His Salvation - to the ends of the earth!

1. John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
2. 1Corinthians 12:4,7-11 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. … But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

So, God's purpose and love for humanity is clear. This is how Jesus, Himself, tested spiritual truth and falsehood and exposed Satan's self serving designs when locked in spiritual warfare. Spiritual attacks can come externally or from within us; for anything that manifests thought can be either from above or below - that is simply the nature of the tree of the knoledge of good and evil.

• Luke 4:1-14
• Matthew 22:18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, “Why do you test Me, you hypocrites?
• Mark 12:15 “Shall we pay, or shall we not pay?” But He, knowing their hypocrisy, said to them, “Why do you test Me? Bring Me a denarius that I may see it.”
• Luke 20:23 But He perceived their craftiness, and said to them, “Why do you test Me?
• Mark 8:31 And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. He spoke this word openly. Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him. But when He had turned around and looked at His disciples, He rebuked Peter, saying, "Get behind Me, Satan! For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."

So, it is clear we are also taught not to believe every spirit but test whether it be of God. Even those desiring to follow the Lord, as I have stated, can be fooled. The apostles John and James were, even after obeying Christ's initial instructions, after they returned from a Samaritan village that they had cast them out after bringing them the Gospel. They then asked Jesus:

• "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?"
  
• Luke 9:55 But He (Jesus) turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them." [And they went to another village.

So we are taught to test all things, whether we are truly operating in the Spirit or hearing from God.

• 2Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.
• 1Thesslonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
• 1John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Basically then, if what we are hearing or perceiving something that may truly be from God, it will not contradict God's Will, nor His Gospel. It will not contradict Christ's teachings but be germane to His love for lost humanity and for the edification of His Church. Examples:

• So, if I feel led to perform an act of kindness to those opposed to Christ, I already know that Christ did the same, both healing and preaching the Good News to even those that desired to kill Him. That ascertained, I simply pray for confirmation and direction on how to proceed.
• If His love propels me to go overseas and share the Gospel with those who have never heard it then I know He will also prepare me to obey His Great Commission and enable me to do it.
• If I have any thoughts that run contrary to His Word or His love, or are based in selfish motives, I know it is not from Him but from below.
• If I hear someone profess that God desires this or that, even if a trustworthy person, I do this:
• Matthew 7:15-21 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. "Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
• John 10:27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

That's a basic brief on discerning the voice of God.
footnote
[1] When I say hear the voice of God I mean in all aspects of the sense of perceiving Him. It could be a simple though, such as go visit so and so in the hospital, go bring food to that feeding ministry, go to the prison this weekend and give those guys My hope with the Gospel. While some have heard the audible voice of God on occasion I have not, but I have indeed been spoken to by God in many various ways and have been able to sense His communication in prayer, in dreams and thoughts seeeming out of the blue. I am always blessed to follow the Lord and see His hand working, amazingly even in me.

In Christ, John 17:20

 

[cvanwey]

When I read the thread I assumed you wanted genuine answers. But, I neglected to look at your profile. That was my mistake.

I know your answers are genuine. I do not doubt that much. Furthermore, in regards to your answer, it would not matter if I believed in the tooth fairy, sasquatch, nothing, or other...

However, I find it very curious that if you were legitimately haunted by demons, or what-have-you, for roughly twelve full months to boot, why would you not seek help and also get it repeatedly documented from unbiased locations? Seems like the logical next step. The fact that you are not addressing as much makes the entire mentioning of such claims less than impactful or meaningful, to say the very least.

I hear anecdotal claims all the time, of the 'beyond.' And yet, any time I press for evidence, it conveniently falls by the wayside