Receiving Jesus the BIBLICAL way.

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edpobre

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Josephus,

You wrote:
As far as I understand it, we are asked to do two things in our life:

1. Recieve Jesus as our Savior from sin and death.

2. Make Jesus Lord of our lives.


It would be of more help to others if you cited the scripture that supports your understanding. The reason I'm here is to share what I believe are TRUTHS that could lead one to salvation and the attainment of eternal life. And I believe that the WORD of God is TRUTH (John 17:17).

I know too that posters in these boards have different understanding of certain concepts so I post these ideas to motivate those who desire to seek the truth to examine their own beliefs and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Ed
 
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edpobre

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zamar,

You wrote:
The Bible also says that "all that call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"

So put that in your legalistic pipe and smoke it.

While it is true that "whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Roms. 10:13), not everyone can call upon the name of the Lord.

If you continue to Rom. 10:14-15, you will note that those who do not believe cannot call. And those who have not HEARD the Lord cannot believe in the Lord. They have not HEARD the Lord because nobody preaches. The preachers they are listening to are not sent by God so they have not HEARD the Lord.

This is supported by Jesus' statement that "not everyone who says, 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven..." (Matt. 7:21).

Ed
 
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edpobre

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ZoneChaos,

You wrote:
John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"

This verse above, says that those that recived Him, and believe in HIs name have already been given the power (Salvation and redemption from sin) to become a Child of God.

Given the power does not mean given salvation and forgiveness of sins. That is an ADDITION to the word of God. The verse mens what it says. One who receives Jesus is given the power to become a child of God. It does not automatically make one a child of God. That power has to be turned on.

How can that power be turned on? Gal. 4:4-5 gives us the answer. God sent His son to redeem us that we might receive adoption as sons.

Ed:
After you receive Jesus, you must be redeemed by his blood for you to receive the adoption as son of God (Gal. 4:4-5).

ZC:The redemption is instantaneous. You do not have to eartn it, or do anything after accpeting Jesus for who He says He is. Once you accpet Him, you are redeemed.

Taken with John 1:12, it doesn't look that way. First you receive Jesus and are given the right to become a child of God. Then Jesus redeems you with his blood so your sins are forgiven. That's when you become an adopted child of God.

You wrote:
Lets look at Galations 4:4-5

4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,"

Here God send Jesus to earth to die for us...

4:5 "To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons."

Here He redeems us as a result of that act. Once He did this, the option to recieve the adoption was available. Notice the verse says "might". Some will not recive the adoption, becasue they will reject the truth. But those that accept the truth, will recive the adoption and be made Sons of God.

Zone, not everyone is redeemed by the blood of Christ. That's why not everyone becomes a child of God. Redemption comes first before one is reconciled to God to make peace with Him and become His adopted child.

Christ is the savior of his church (Eph. 5:23). Christ gave his life for his church (Eph. 5:25). Christ purchased his church ih his blood (Acts 20:2:cool: . That's why postle Peter told members of Christ's body or church that they were redeemed by the precious blood of Christ (1 Peter 1?:18-19).

Christ redeems with his blood those who are individually members of his body (Rom. 12:4-5) and are thus adopted as sons of God.

Hence, accepting Christ as personal Lord and savior does not save anyone who refuses to enter the fold through Christ. The fold or flock is the Church of Christ that he purchased with his blood (Acts 20:28 Lamsa).

Apostle Paul called members of the body Churches of Christ (Rom. 16:16).

Ed
 
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LouisBooth

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"I don't see the word "ALONE" in the verse. God does not allow anyone to ADD to nor SUBTRACT from His word. "

It says by faith..and thats it..faith alone..that's all it takes..;)


As apostle James said, "faith only" does not justifiy a man. It must be faith accompanied by deeds. Paul was referring to "works of law" (Galatians chapters 2 and 3)."

You misunderstand James message. He is saying what good is faith without works..why..because the natural sign of a true faith is works...you look at the works and know there is faith not the other way around.

"And nowhere in Galatians does it say tht accepting Christ as savior makes anyone a child of God. "

Umm..it says that abram was justified by faith..and because of this ..read on man..you're gonna get it..We are sons of God because we are new creations in christ. This happens when we have true faith in him and are cleansed by his blood.
 
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edpobre

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LouisBooth,

Heb. 11:6 tells us that "without faith it is impossible to please God. For he who comes to God must believe that he exists and is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

Let me ask you LB, suppose a man says he has faith that God exists and rewards those who diligently seek Him. But this man does not seek God at all. What good is this man's faith? Will his faith do him any good? No, his faith is dead.

As you yourself said Louis, faith without works is not "true" faith. You may say you have faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross, you have faith that Jesus is truly your savior, you have faith that Christ will come back to bring to himself his disciples as he promised. But you refuse to abide in his words and obey his commands. You refuse to do God's will. You refuse to be baptized. You refuse to become a member of his body or church. What good will your faith do you? Will your faith save you? No, your faith is dead.

Ed
 
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ZoneChaos

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First you receive Jesus and are given the right to become a child of God. Then Jesus redeems you with his blood so your sins are forgiven. That's when you become an adopted child of God.

Ok. then enlighten me please..

Between recieve Christ as my savior, and Jesus redeeming me, what else must I do? You have yet to list that step in your doctrine. You say first you, then Jesus, but if these don't happen at the samed time.. why the hold up? Why does Jesus wait, and for howlong? what is the catalyst for Jesus to get around to deciding that we will redeem someone who has the power to be redeemed?
 
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edpobre

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ZoneChaos,

You wrote:
Between recieve Christ as my savior, and Jesus redeeming me, what else must I do? You have yet to list that step in your doctrine. You say first you, then Jesus, but if these don't happen at the samed time.. why the hold up? Why does Jesus wait, and for howlong? what is the catalyst for Jesus to get around to deciding that we will redeem someone who has the power to be redeemed

As I have said before, your belief about receiving Jesus as your savior is not Biblical. You can only be redeemed by the blood of Christ if you are a member of the church that he purchased with his own blood (Acts 20:2:cool: . That church is the Church of Christ of which I am a member.

To become a member of our church, you must first listen to our ministers preach to you the true gospel of peace and reconciliation. After listening to the whole truth (not half-truths as most pastors do), you are then asked if you believe everything you heard. If you do, then you are placed under a six-month probation where you put into practice everything you learned. Then you are asked to decide whether to push through baptism or not. Here you are not forced to do anything against your will. You go through baptism, you are then sealed with the Spirit of Promise (that's the guarantee of your inheritance of eternal life until the redemption of the purchased possession) and your name is added to the Church registry of members.

Indeed ZC, narrow is the gate and difficult is the way to life and few find it. I am fortunate to be one of the few. I wish you were too.

Ed
 
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ZoneChaos

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If you do, then you are placed under a six-month probation where you put into practice everything you learned. Then you are asked to decide whether to push through baptism or not. Here you are not forced to do anything against your will.

OK! NOw I finally got what I wanted fomr you. This statement above had no credibility with me. If you are syaing that all christians must go onsome probationary period from the time they Accept Chroist, until the time they are redeemed, then you, my friend, are a false prophet. That is not in the Word of God. It is not Biblical. I was never on probation, befroe I was redeemed. My God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God in the Bible, the One true GOd would nopt put anyone who truly beleives on probation...

So unless you admit that I can recieve redemption without going through a probationary period, then our conversations are done. I have presented you with the truth and it is up to you to find the lie hidden in what you beleive to be the truth.
 
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LouisBooth

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"But you refuse to abide in his words and obey his commands. You refuse to do God's will. You refuse to be baptized. You refuse to become a member of his body or church. What good will your faith do you? Will your faith save you? No, your faith is dead. "

Unmmm...NO ;) I never said any of that..don't put words in my mouth. :) I said they are not requirements for salvation. Look at daniel. He was a good man but always prayed at home in private. He never was baptised..yet he was saved by Christ when he came :) There is no biblical reference that any of the discpiles were baptised. I ask you what is church..it is when two or more are gathered together in his name ..it's a relationship with Christians. My faith isn't dead, but I don't have requirements on my faith...just that I truely believe. Yes I do agree that "works" should follow but they are not REQUIRED.
 
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edpobre

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LouisBooth,

Ed:"But you refuse to abide in his words and obey his commands. You refuse to do God's will. You refuse to be baptized. You refuse to become a member of his body or church. What good will your faith do you? Will your faith save you? No, your faith is dead. "

LB:Unmmm...NO I never said any of that..don't put words in my mouth. I said they are not requirements for salvation.

Do you have the authority to override Jesus LB?

You are saying that doing God's will is not a requirement for salvation when Jesus says - only he who does the will of the Father in heaven will enter the kingdom of heaven. Entering the kingdom of heaven means salvation, isn't it?

You are saying that baptism is not a requirement for salvation when Jesus says - he who believes and is baptized will be saved?

You are saying that becoming a member of his body is not a requirement for salvation when Jesus says - he who enters the fold through him will be save?

Do you truly believe Jesus LB?

You wrote:
Look at daniel. He was a good man but always prayed at home in private. He never was baptised..yet he was saved by Christ when he came

Daniel did not need to be baptized to become a member of God's nation. He was instead circumcised to show proof that he was a Jew.

You wrote:
There is no biblical reference that any of the discpiles were baptised. I ask you what is church..it is when two or more are gathered together in his name ..it's a relationship with Christians. My faith isn't dead, but I don't have requirements on my faith...just that I truely believe. Yes I do agree that "works" should follow but they are not REQUIRED.

The disciples did not have to be baptized to be ADDED to the church. Jesus was there physically to recognize them as members of his "little flock" (Luke 12:32). Baptism was only for those whom the apostles preached to as commanded by Jesus (Mark 16:15-16).

Incidentally, your understanding of a church is false. Church is not a "relationship with Christians." It is group of people who have submitted themselves to the will of God. Christ calls them "flock" and Apostle Paul calls them "Church of Christ."

Ed
 
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LouisBooth

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"Do you have the authority to override Jesus LB? "

Nope but it sounds like you think you do.

"You are saying that baptism is not a requirement for salvation when Jesus says - he who believes and is baptized will be saved?"

if you take verse out of context then you're not conveying what Jesus said. I can say Like to eat hot dogs and you can take it out of context and say I kill dogs and cook them and eat them. That is EXACTLY what you are doing now with each verse you quote. Read John chapter 3 its all about entering the kingdom.

"Daniel did not need to be baptized to become a member of God's nation. He was instead circumcised to show proof that he was a Jew."

hmm..where is the verse for that? ;) You won't find it. but if you look at the CONTEXT (that is what you lack in looking at the other verses) you will see he was a jew in a jewish family and they did circumsice their childeren. without context you can't assume this.

"Incidentally, your understanding of a church is false. Church is not a "relationship with Christians." It is group of people who have submitted themselves to the will of God. Christ calls them "flock" and Apostle Paul calls them "Church of Christ.""

Okay..now is the time for stirness..YOU ARE WRONG. It is written that where one or two are gathered together in my name I am there also (paraphrase). It is you who do NOT understand what a church is. Look at the greatest commandment. Love God and love people. How do you do that? RELATIONSHIPS. It takes time to show someone you love them.

On a side note: Check acts chapter 16:30..what did Paul say for them to be saved (ie salvation) "He brought them out and sakes "sirs, what must I do to be saved? They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved..." There is NO mention of baptism, circumscion or anything else ed. They took them to be baptised because that is a natural act if you are saved..it is not a requirment or he would have said so.

Back to the baptism. If you look in Romans chapter 6 you see that it is symbolic. check this verse "We were therfore buried with him through baptism into death...It is not a requirement. You still have yet to show me a verse for that. mark 16 says nothing about the idea that if you are not baptised you are not saved.

 
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edpobre

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LouisBooth,

Ed:"You are saying that baptism is not a requirement for salvation when Jesus says - he who believes and is baptized will be saved?"

LB:if you take verse out of context then you're not conveying what Jesus said. I can say Like to eat hot dogs and you can take it out of context and say I kill dogs and cook them and eat them. That is EXACTLY what you are doing now with each verse you quote. Read John chapter 3 its all about entering the kingdom.

Chapter 3 of John is about believing Jesus to attain eternal life. What does believing Jesus mean to you Louie?

Jesus instructs his disciples to preach the gospel. He tells them that he who believes and is baptized will be saved (Mark 16:15-6). I believe what Jesus says as it is exactly written. How can you say that I'm not conveying what Jesus said? To me, believing Jesus (John chapter 3) also involves believing and obeying what he says.

Jesus says that not everyone who says to him, 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven but he who does the will of the Father in heaven (Matt. 7:41). Again, I believe what Jesus says as it is exactly written. To me, believing Jesus (John chapter 3) also involves believing what Jesus says and doing the will of God.

Ed
 
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LouisBooth

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"Chapter 3 of John is about believing Jesus to attain eternal life. What does believing Jesus mean to you Louie? "

Umm..ed I don't think you read chapter 3 close enough..he clearely says "enter the kingdom" ;) It also says that anyone who believes stands NOT condemned..nothing about baptism there either ;) should I go on to the rest of the NT or is John 3 enough?

"To me, believing Jesus (John chapter 3) also involves believing and obeying what he says."

Ahh..key statement.."to you" you are adding something and that is just what you accused me of doing and said it was wrong. You change your WHOLE theology about salvation based on one work in one verse in that doesn't even appear in most early manuscripts? (just to me) that doesn't sound like a good idea..rather find in all over (faith alone saves).

"Jesus says that not everyone who says to him, 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven but he who does the will of the Father in heaven (Matt. 7:41). "

Yes, Look at that verse closely ...it talks about works they did..deeds claimed in his name...oh..and its Matt 7:21 not 7:41..there is no 7:41 :) Look at what that passage is talking about..again it speaks of recognizing the tree by its fruit..This is because a true believer will bear good fruit. This DOES NOT mean fruit is required.
That is not what it says.

 
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edpobre

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LouisBooth,

Ed: "Chapter 3 of John is about believing Jesus to attain eternal life. What does believing Jesus mean to you Louie? "

LB:Umm..ed I don't think you read chapter 3 close enough..he clearely says "enter the kingdom" It also says that anyone who believes stands NOT condemned..nothing about baptism there either should I go on to the rest of the NT or is John 3 enough?

You are being deceived by Satan by making you believe that CONTEXT is the key to understanding the Bible. Just because baptism is not mentioned in chapter 3 of John does not mean that it is not important for salvatiopn. 1 Cor. 2:13 tells us that the spiritual way to teach the word of God is to compare spiritual things with spiritual.

It is clear in Mark 16:16 that baptism is required for salvation. Jesus said it himself. And unless you are authorized to disregard what Jesus says, please stop telling people that baptism is ot required for salvation because you are only leading them to sudden destruction.

Ed:"To me, believing Jesus (John chapter 3) also involves believing and obeying what he says."

LB:Ahh..key statement.."to you" you are adding something and that is just what you accused me of doing and said it was wrong. You change your WHOLE theology about salvation based on one work in one verse in that doesn't even appear in most early manuscripts? (just to me) that doesn't sound like a good idea..rather find in all over (faith alone saves).

I'm only putting back what you have SUBTRACTED from the word of God Louie. In John 8:31, Jesus clearly says to those who believed him that they are indeed his disciples if they abide (stay or keep) in his words. In Luke 6:46 Jesus says, "But why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord' and not do the things I say?" Jesus follows it up by saying that a "foolish man is one who hears his words and not do them (Luke 6:47-49).

Ed:"Jesus says that not everyone who says to him, 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven but he who does the will of the Father in heaven (Matt. 7:41). "

LB:Yes, Look at that verse closely ...it talks about works they did..deeds claimed in his name...oh..and its Matt 7:21 not 7:41..there is no 7:41 Look at what that passage is talking about..again it speaks of recognizing the tree by its fruit..This is because a true believer will bear good fruit. This DOES NOT mean fruit is required. That is not what it says.

You are deliberately missing the point Louie. A true believer is one who does the will of the Father in heaven. He is the one who bears good fruit. One who does not do the will of the Father does not bear good fruit and will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Do you know the will of God Louie? Have you done it? You won't answer this because you don't know. All you know is "faith alone" saves and that's sad.

Ed
 
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edpobre

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ZoneChaos,

You wrote:
I was never on probation, befroe I was redeemed. My God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God in the Bible, the One true GOd would nopt put anyone who truly beleives on probation...

You say you were not put on probation before you were redeemed. How were you redeemed Zone? Where do you find thjose who are redeemed Zone? You also say that God would not put on probation anyone who "truly" believes. What do you mean by one who "truly" believes? How do we know when one "truly" believes or not? What are the things that one who "truly" believes believes in?

You wrote:
So unless you admit that I can recieve redemption without going through a probationary period, then our conversations are done. I have presented you with the truth and it is up to you to find the lie hidden in what you beleive to be the truth.

The only truth I know is the word of God Zone. Jesus says so himself in John 17:17. The truth is the only thing that sanctifies. Your answers to my questions will tell you and me whether you have the truth or not.

Ed
 
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ZoneChaos

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You say you were not put on probation before you were redeemed. How were you redeemed Zone?

I was redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, Jesus Christ, through the Grace of God. "I have been redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb, filled with the Hooly Ghosdt, I am.. all my sins are washed away.. I've been redeemed." ;)

Where do you find thjose who are redeemed Zone?
They are my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

What do you mean by one who "truly" believes?

Beleives in accordance with scripture, toward salvation. In your "process" there are elements that are not of scripture. I question your claim to Christianity, becasue of this. I follow Scripture, you seem to follow scripture, and something else.

How do we know when one "truly" believes or not?

As the Bible says, I will know Christains by their fruit. I do not see the fruit of the Holy Spirit in your post of the "process" of salvation.

What are the things that one who "truly" believes believes in?

The Bible, and its author ;)

The only truth I know is the word of God Zone. Jesus says so himself in John 17:17. The truth is the only thing that sanctifies. Your answers to my questions will tell you and me whether you have the truth or not.

Then quote the verse that demonstrates the probation period for starters.
 
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ZoneChaos

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Anyone who can talk can say the same thing.

And anyone that can talk can say what you are saying, but that does not make it true. There are things you have said, for which you have yet to provide a verse to support the statement. You have verses that you twist and use to rationalize, but you claim that your rationalization is fact.

So that you may know Zone, those who are redeemed by the blood of Christ receive the adoption as sons of God (Gal. 4:5). In Paul's letter to the Romans, he referred to them as children of God (Rom. 8:16-17).

I know this and do not dispute it. And I have already told you I knew this and didn't dispute it. For future referecne, I agree with and accept all the verses you quote. ;)

Church of Christ - NOT the so-called "Universal Church."

Please expand on the differences.

Show me Zone which of my "process" you think is scripture plus something else. We are seeking the truth, remember?

I have put in bold, what is not suported by scripture.

To become a member of our church, you must first listen to our ministers preach to you the true gospel of peace and reconciliation. After listening to the whole truth (not half-truths as most pastors do), you are then asked if you believe everything you heard. If you do, then you are placed under a six-month probation where you put into practice everything you learned. Then you are asked to decide whether to push through baptism or not. Here you are not forced to do anything against your will. You go through baptism, you are then sealed with the Spirit of Promise (that's the guarantee of your inheritance of eternal life until the redemption of the purchased possession) and your name is added to the Church registry of members.

So... please explain the scriptural reference to a 6 month probation

Explain why Baptism is key in Salvation

Explains the definition os "Spirit of Promoise" and why spirit and promise are capitalized.

And explain the Church Registry of Members, and how this may or may not differ from the Book of Life.

I understand Zone. Because one only sees what one wants to see.

NOt with the help of the Holy Spirit, and the Gift of Discernemnt. IT is though this that we know who are ture and who are false prophets.

I beleive in all 6 points. BUt, I also beleive that you are not a member of the Church of Christ. You may have joined an organization founded my a man who calls this organizatiojn by the same name, but The Church of Christ, the Bride, the Body, existed well before your organization existed, of which you are a member.

Which is why I want you to explain the organization of which you are an an individual member...

1 Peter 1:6-7: "... you have been grieved by various TRIALS, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ."

Hate to burst your Bubble, but Peter was writing to a group of people who were already CHristians, already saved, and already children of God. As Christians, we still go through trials. That verse does not support nor referecne a "probation" of any sort. IF it did, then there woulod be no Christians, becasue trials last until we leave this earth and enter into His Kingdom.

 
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edpobre

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ZoneChaos,

You wrote:
And anyone that can talk can say what you are saying, but that does not make it true. There are things you have said, for which you have yet to provide a verse to support the statement. You have verses that you twist and use to rationalize, but you claim that your rationalization is fact.

Tell me the verses which you claim I twist. Show me the things I said that you claim I have yet to show biblical proof to support it.

And by the way, I haven't seen the answers to the questions I have been asking you in earlier posts. Where are your text proofs for the three step salvation you posted earlier?

Ed:Church of Christ - NOT the so-called "Universal Church."

ZC:Please expand on the differences.

The Church of Christ is never described as "universal" in the Bible. What is described as "universal" is the Mother of Harlots who sits on many waters (Rev. 17:1).

Catholics and Protestants describe the "Universal Church" as the spiritual "body of Christ" composed of all "believers" regardless of denomination. This means that the "Universal Church" is composed of different groups of people or many bodies, who have different beliefs, different faiths, different hopes, and different baptisms. The only thing they have in common is their belief that Jesus is God.

The Church of Christ (not the Protestant denomination) is one body, having one spirit, one hope, one faith, one baptism, one God, the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ (Eph. 4:4-6). There is one central Administration that keeps the unity of the one body intact.

You wrote:
So... please explain the scriptural reference to a 6 month probation

Explain why Baptism is key in Salvation

Explains the definition os "Spirit of Promoise" and why spirit and promise are capitalized.

And explain the Church Registry of Members, and how this may or may not differ from the Book of Life.

1 Peter 1:6-7 explains that true believers are put to various trials and tested by fire. Whether this is done before or/and after their baptism is not important. It is the discretion of the church Administrtion to administer such tests.

Outside the Church of Christ, there is no redemption through Christ's blood, there is no forgiveness of sins and there is no salvation. Therefore, one can only be saved by becoming a member of the Church of Christ. However, nobody can become a member unless he is baptized. Thus, baptism is the key to salvation as Jesus said in Mark 16:16.

Eph. 1:13-14 explains the role of the Holy Spirit of promise which is the guarantee that true believers will receive God's promise of salvation. One can only receive this seal when one is redeemed by becoming a member of the Church of Christ.

The Church Registry is the same as the Book of Life. What is written here on earth is also written in heaven. This was Jesus' promise to Peter when he said he will build his church.

You wrote:
NOt with the help of the Holy Spirit, and the Gift of Discernemnt. IT is though this that we know who are ture and who are false prophets.

Mark 4:11 says that only those who are members of Christ's "little flock" (Luke 12:32) are given to know the mysteries of the kingdom, but to those who are outside, all things come in parables.

You wrote:
I beleive in all 6 points. BUt, I also beleive that you are not a member of the Church of Christ. You may have joined an organization founded my a man who calls this organizatiojn by the same name, but The Church of Christ, the Bride, the Body, existed well before your organization existed, of which you are a member.

Which is why I want you to explain the organization of which you are an an individual member...

If I knew your mailing address, I could mail you some materials to study or direct you to one of our locales nearest you. My e-mail is: edpobre@eudoramail.com

I really think you should study my organization further. You have nothing to lose but everything to gain. If after further study you still think my church is false, then stay away from it.

But if my church is true, then you will know how to position yourself and your loved ones for the second coming of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ.

Ed
 
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savinggrc

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Have you all ever heard this definition?

A cult is any group that says that if you're not one of them, then you ain't saved.


For example, there are some Baptists out there that say that only by receiving baptism from someone who was baptised by a Baptist who was baptized by a Baptist who was...baptised by John the Baptist are you really saved. They are a cult. That does not mean, of course, that no folks in that church are saved, just that the church is a cult.


Just curious.
 
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