Rebuking sinners.

[stevevw]

I have read a lot of Bible verses mentioning that we should rebuke a brother who sins. For example
1 Timothy 5:20
As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
Luke 17:3
Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him,

Are these verses referring to a brother as one who is already saved within a church or is this a general term to all including those outside the church.

If these verses are only referring to those within the church and already saved what about those outside the church who are not save.

I have heard people say that we need to be loving and win sinners over with examples of love. BUt doesnt the Bible also mention that sinners need to be warned of the coming judgemnet. I think that some can become too liberal and think that we only have to show love and that confronting sin is being cruel and now showing compassion. But what about the saying you need to be cruel to be kind in the right measure. Jesus is about truth, shining the light in the darkness and exposing sin and sinful ways of living. By rebuking a sinner we may perhaps save them.

 

[Dave L]

I have read a lot of Bible verses mentioning that we should rebuke a brother who sins. For example
1 Timothy 5:20
As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
Luke 17:3
Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him,

Are these verses referring to a brother as one who is already saved within a church or is this a general term to all including those outside the church.

If these verses are only referring to those within the church and already saved what about those outside the church who are not save.

I have heard people say that we need to be loving and win sinners over with examples of love. BUt doesnt the Bible also mention that sinners need to be warned of the coming judgemnet. I think that some can become too liberal and think that we only have to show love and that confronting sin is being cruel and now showing compassion. But what about the saying you need to be cruel to be kind in the right measure. Jesus is about truth, shining the light in the darkness and exposing sin and sinful ways of living. By rebuking a sinner we may perhaps save them.

As I understand God elected some to salvation. He saves them in the new birth. We preach the good news that Christ gave eternal life to all who believe. These will believe the gospel and mould their lives according to it. The rest will not correctly hear the gospel and will turn it into a law they assume will save them if they choose to obey. But only the born again are saved.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I have read a lot of Bible verses mentioning that we should rebuke a brother who sins. For example
1 Timothy 5:20
As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
Luke 17:3
Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him,

Are these verses referring to a brother as one who is already saved within a church or is this a general term to all including those outside the church.

If these verses are only referring to those within the church and already saved what about those outside the church who are not save.

I have heard people say that we need to be loving and win sinners over with examples of love. BUt doesnt the Bible also mention that sinners need to be warned of the coming judgemnet. I think that some can become too liberal and think that we only have to show love and that confronting sin is being cruel and now showing compassion. But what about the saying you need to be cruel to be kind in the right measure. Jesus is about truth, shining the light in the darkness and exposing sin and sinful ways of living. By rebuking a sinner we may perhaps save them.

Here is a personal experience of lovingly rebuke of a brother/sister.
I use to drive for one of my church mothers who went to be with the Lord at age 96. One day we were driving and something happened and an expletive popped out of my mouth. Immediately I was contrite and apologized/repented.With a gentle smile she lovingly said "Well, if it was not down in there, it would not have jumped out." I wanted to cry. But she taught me how to lovingly correct another person.

 

[Hammster]

I have read a lot of Bible verses mentioning that we should rebuke a brother who sins. For example
1 Timothy 5:20
As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
Luke 17:3
Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him,

Are these verses referring to a brother as one who is already saved within a church or is this a general term to all including those outside the church.

If these verses are only referring to those within the church and already saved what about those outside the church who are not save.

I have heard people say that we need to be loving and win sinners over with examples of love. BUt doesnt the Bible also mention that sinners need to be warned of the coming judgemnet. I think that some can become too liberal and think that we only have to show love and that confronting sin is being cruel and now showing compassion. But what about the saying you need to be cruel to be kind in the right measure. Jesus is about truth, shining the light in the darkness and exposing sin and sinful ways of living. By rebuking a sinner we may perhaps save them.

Those particular verses are referring to brothers, ie. those who are saved.

 

[A_Thinker]

I have read a lot of Bible verses mentioning that we should rebuke a brother who sins. For example
1 Timothy 5:20
As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
Luke 17:3
Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him,

Are these verses referring to a brother as one who is already saved within a church or is this a general term to all including those outside the church.

If these verses are only referring to those within the church and already saved what about those outside the church who are not save.

I have heard people say that we need to be loving and win sinners over with examples of love. BUt doesnt the Bible also mention that sinners need to be warned of the coming judgemnet. I think that some can become too liberal and think that we only have to show love and that confronting sin is being cruel and now showing compassion. But what about the saying you need to be cruel to be kind in the right measure. Jesus is about truth, shining the light in the darkness and exposing sin and sinful ways of living. By rebuking a sinner we may perhaps save them.

The scriptures you cite refer to believers.

As christians, we follow the teachings of Christ. And the only persons I can recall Jesus harshly rebuking were the hypocritical Jewish religious leaders.

Also, Jesus mildly rebuked His own disciples from time to time (i.e. for lack of faith, etc.).

However ...

Jesus did not rebuke the sinner woman who came to bathe His feet in her tears. Jesus did not rebuke the woman at the well ... who had had five husbands. Jesus did not rebuke and judge the woman who had been caught in adultery. Jesus did not rebuke Matthew/Levi the tax collector, or Zachaeus, who admitted to cheating the people.

The job of informing sinners of their universal sin ... is accomplished through the proclamation of the Law by the prophets. Jesus fulfilled that task by exposing the unreachably high standards of the Law ... in His own teaching in Galilee.

He starts out with the teachings of the Beatitudes ...

Matthew 5

“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.

He goes from there to explaining that the heart can sin, ... though there be no outward expression ...

Matthew 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment."

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

In Matthew 7, Jesus teaches us not to judge ... unless you already have all of your ducks in order ...

Matthew 7:1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."

In John 18, Jesus does give us a guide for approaching a christian brother or sisters regarding sin or offense ...

John 18

15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

 

[EmethAlethia]

The problem with coming to conclusions before you gather ALL the data that "MIGHT" apply to the topic and then cut ALL the data God gives on the topic out straight, is that we come to conclusions based on one or two passages out of context, and then we force everything "else" in scripture to align with the beliefs we "know" are truth, altering the meaning of scripture to fit our beliefs instead of the other way around. Do you want truth on every topic, no matter what the cost to your beliefs, or not? Are you going to continuously be a workman who labors to get to truth, or are you happy believing what your belief group believes and teaches based on their "selected" verses and interpretations? To illustrate the difference in our habits depending on what it is we truly love, I include the following:

Part One: How to Believe Lies “as” Truth (One Page) Excerpt from my book, Galaxy Lord Discovery:

“I said, "If you think about it, that’s pretty much that’s the normal way things progress when two people from different belief groups share their beliefs. What do we share?

1.) We share the proof we have that verifies our views are the correct ones. What else do we share?

2.) We share all the evidence we have that shows the other person’s views are off.

3.) How do we interpret everything? Well, in the light of what we know is truth, of course. What is truth? Our beliefs. All correct interpretations of all “valid” data must support, or at least not negate, our infallible beliefs.

4.) What do we keep jumping back to when our beliefs are questioned? Everything I just listed.

No matter what our belief group, or beliefs, we all share the data we know “verifies our beliefs” and proves all “opposing beliefs” false.

And the interpretations, of the data we have selected, are always in line with what each person knows is truth, and of course, no matter what our beliefs, no matter who we are, our core beliefs “are” “truth”.

Ergo … All correct interpretations of valid data must align with our beliefs. But there is more.

5. Anything that doesn’t seem to fit with our views, we reinterpret, ignore, discredit, invalidate …

6. Then we usually have a few outside reasons for why we are in the belief groups we are in. Things like, we got a burning in the bosom, we speak in tongues, signs, wonders, we prayed to God for the truth on an issue and got “feelings” or some other characteristics of our belief group that prove “ours” is the correct one. This also includes things like: our group is the oldest, largest, fastest growing, wealthiest, … our group has the most experts with doctorates …”

I call #1-6 above “Methodology One”: The Methodology of Belief Groups)

Any unquestionably true beliefs indicate the use of Methodology One above. The non-religious lost: Rom. 1:18-32. The religious but non-Christian: Rom. 10:1-3, Those that believe themselves to be Christians but aren’t: Mat. 7. Look at their responses to those who don’t agree with their beliefs in Mat. 7:6 Why? Look at what they have gathered using the Methodology above. And no one using it can get to truth, EVER. God didn’t design it for that.

2Th 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.”

If you use the exact same Methodology you get the exact same result: An unquestionable assurance that your beliefs are Fact. If you want truth, you have to do the opposite of that Methodology: The next one.

Part 2: How to Get to Truth “Methodology Two” (Two Pages)

2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

“That which we love least is always forced to conform to that which we love most. You can love your belief or truth. Pick one.”

If your belief are “unquestionable truths”. We both know what you love and which methodology you will use. It’s on the previous sheet. But if your Methodology can’t get you “to” the truth does it matter how vehemently you hold to your beliefs.

Rules for Getting to Truth

1.) We must avoid “Methodology One” (Previous page): That Methodology only hardens, those that use it, into believing whatever lies they “want to believe” “as” truth. That Methodology is “Proving your beliefs true and holding fast to them.” On this sheet you have the “opposite” Methodology, i.e. what is required if we want to alter all our beliefs to fit truth.

2.) We must remain open minded to altering any or all of our beliefs in the light of the fullness of the truth, when everything that “Might” pertain to the topic at hand, is rightly divided. Unquestionable/Infallible beliefs you will never even consider altering in a million years, prove a love of beliefs, not truth, and thus we have closed our eyes and ears lest we see and hear. If that is the case, we love our beliefs, not truth. (See 2Th. 2:10-15. Everyone gets what they want.)

3.) We, personally, must get absolutely everything anyone thinks might pertain to the topic at hand. Then we must gather all the data that “might pertain” that no group gathered. No belief group gathers what they can’t use to prove their beliefs true or opposing beliefs false. (Do this first and put all passages in bible order. Why? Everyone wants to interpret their “selected” data in the light of their beliefs and in the light of the rest of their “selected” passages.)

4.) Pick a meaning that fully aligns with the historical, legal, architectural, agricultural … context. (Example: In a discussion on “cutting away”, pertaining to grape vines, first understand the first century practices for maintaining vineyards.)

5.) Hold to a meaning for all words, root words, figures of speech parables … consistent throughout the Old and New Testament. We have a Greek Old and New Testament and a Hebrew Old Testament. Pick a meaning that fully fits everywhere the same word, root word, figure of speech is used. (Example: If phobos means fear, terror, shaking in your boots we are all going to die terror in 553 places where the word/root word is used, do not pick the meaning of respect or honor in the 2 places where you do not like the teaching.)

6.) Hold to a meaning consistent with the “entire discussion” surrounding the verse or passage being considered, holding to the flow of thought, flow of arguments, meaning of points made … (Find the beginning and the end of the discussion each passage in question is a part of. Your interpretation must make perfect sense in the light of that entire context.)

7.) Hold only to meanings consistent with conscience. (Example: If your interpretation would be a sin if a man did likewise, and your interpretation results in believing God does it, your interpretation is wrong. i.e. there are no illustrations in the bible where God says He commits adultery. If your “meaning” for the word would make God a violator of His own will or worse, committing adultery, you picked the wrong meaning.)

8.) Pick an interpretation for all the data that makes God, God’s people and God’s word 100% consistent in “all” they say and do and “all” they don’t say and don’t do. “Any inconsistencies are proof of false beliefs/definitions.” (Example: God says He reproves all He loves, and that if there is no reproof you are not His. Ergo, if you believe someone is sinning and God does not reprove them for it either God does not love them or your belief that it is a sin is wrong.)

9.) Pick an interpretation that fully fits with all logic, reason, and rational thinking. (i.e., If the writer spent a whole chapter saying there are no gifts greater than any other, choosing an interpretation for a verse right after that discussion that means “earnestly desire the greater gifts”, contradicts. Look for the “other” possible meaning.)

10.) Interpret the Clearest, Easiest Understood, Most Straightforward … Passages First, Interpreting the Complex, Convoluted, Difficult Passages in their Light. (Difficult passages are easy to distort to fit beliefs.)

11.) Pick a meaning for the parts that fully fits with the whole of the data that might pertain without adding meaning that isn’t there, subtracting meaning that is, or distorting anything to force it to comply with your beliefs. If everything that pertains (#3 above) does not fully fit with everything else (#4) you have the wrong meaning. Hold to a consistency of meaning when we put all of the parts, rightly divided, together. (If 5% of your interpretations don’t fit the other 95% you are either distorting the 5% to hold to your beliefs, or forcing the 95% to fit your views even though they clearly contradict the meaning in the 5%. If you are not open to altering your beliefs to fit truth, you will continue to alter truth to fit your beliefs.)

12.) Keep on continuously proving all things over and over again as a habit and way of life and never stop and hold fast to what is good/true. This process never ends for truth lovers. Why? Just one verse, or one slight change in interpretation can force a complete reevaluation … and a change of beliefs … if you love truth… If not …

Use these pages as a check list to find out which side of the following verses you fall on for each bible topic. Are your eyes and ears closed to considering a different belief might be the truth? Or are all beliefs open to changing in the light of the fullness of the truth rightly divided? Do you use

2Th 2:10-12 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason, God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Everyone gets what they want… from God. You can love your beliefs or truth. Pick one. The “Methodology” you use, and hold fast to, proves, beyond any doubt, what you love.

 

[stevevw]

As I understand God elected some to salvation. He saves them in the new birth. We preach the good news that Christ gave eternal life to all who believe. These will believe the gospel and mould their lives according to it. The rest will not correctly hear the gospel and will turn it into a law they assume will save them if they choose to obey. But only the born again are saved.

It seems that there is Gods truth and some people reject it and then replace it with their own version of what that truth is. So sin is not necessarily specific obvious sins like sexual immorality, stealing, killing and adultery ect but not accepting the truth of God which is reveal in Christ.

Therefore the obvious sins are not recognised as sins but some can be seen as justified and people will not be open to being rebuked. In fact they would probably be defensive and justifying their lifestyle as just something people do in a secular world where there is no moral law giver but only worldly governments and societal norms and values which are relative anyway.

But I think some may be open to hearing the gospel and I would imagine the best way to do this is to set the example rather than bring the judgement. I still dont get how some believe that it is important to rebuke sinners. Not so much in a personal but like John the Baptist and other disciples said in telling people to get ready and repent becuase you will not be saved.

Luke 13:3
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Acts 8:22
Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you.

 

[Dave L]

It seems that there is Gods truth and some people reject it and then replace it with their own version of what that truth is. So sin is not necessarily specific obvious sins like sexual immorality, stealing, killing and adultery ect but not accepting the truth of God which is reveal in Christ.

Therefore the obvious sins are not recognised as sins but some can be seen as justified and people will not be open to being rebuked. In fact they would probably be defensive and justifying their lifestyle as just something people do in a secular world where there is no moral law giver but only worldly governments and societal norms and values which are relative anyway.

But I think some may be open to hearing the gospel and I would imagine the best way to do this is to set the example rather than bring the judgement. I still dont get how some believe that it is important to rebuke sinners. Not so much in a personal but like John the Baptist and other disciples said in telling people to get ready and repent becuase you will not be saved.

Luke 13:3
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Acts 8:22
Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you.

Many do not recognize sin is rooted in hatred. So even good works can be a sin if not motivated by love.

 

[stevevw]

Here is a personal experience of lovingly rebuke of a brother/sister.
I use to drive for one of my church mothers who went to be with the Lord at age 96. One day we were driving and something happened and an expletive popped out of my mouth. Immediately I was contrite and apologized/repented.With a gentle smile she lovingly said "Well, if it was not down in there, it would not have jumped out." I wanted to cry. But she taught me how to lovingly correct another person.

Thanks for that, this helped me understand better what it means to lovingly help someone who may be lost in sin. It is true that what is within us is where we are truly at and in some way, shape or form it will come out and we cannot hide it. This is mentioned by Jesus a lot that it is the state of our hearts rather than the outside appearence. It seems the church mother was a wise and gentle lady and was able to allow you to come to a realization without jusdement.

 

[stevevw]

Many do not recognize sin is rooted in hatred. So even good works can be a sin if not motivated by love.

Yes this is true. But do you think that acting in love may not always be what others think is love. For example in todays political climate some think that not pointing out certain truths is being compassionate. This stems from ideologies such as identity politics and political correctness. But in reality not pointing out the truth can do more harm. So pointing out the truth though some may think is cruel or politically incorrect is actually being more compassionate and loving.

 

[Dave L]

Love will

Yes this is true. But do you think that acting in love may not always be what others think is love. For example in todays political climate some think that not pointing out certain truths is being compassionate. This stems from ideologies such as identity politics and political correctness. But in reality not pointing out the truth can do more harm. So pointing out the truth though some may think is cruel or politically incorrect is actually being more compassionate and loving.

speak the truth in concern for sinners and be willing to suffer for it.

 

[stevevw]

The scriptures you cite refer to believers.

As christians, we follow the teachings of Christ. And the only persons I can recall Jesus harshly rebuking were the hypocritical Jewish religious leaders.

I think he also rebuked anyone who would lead children astray. He said they may as well put a millstone around their necks and jump into the river. I think that was pretty harsh. Also didnt Jesus mention hell more than anyone else in the Bible. Havnt investigate all the examples yet but the mention of hell seems to be a warning of the consequences of sin or not repenting.

Also, Jesus mildly rebuked His own disciples from time to time (i.e. for lack of faith, etc.).

yes and I would imagine as any close nit groups and being the teacher Jesus would be pointing out the truth a lot. Sometime the truth can be uncomfortable but it helps people come to a realization and perhaps a deeper faith.

However ...

Jesus did not rebuke the sinner woman who came to bathe His feet in her tears. Jesus did not rebuke the woman at the well ... who had had five husbands. Jesus did not rebuke and judge the woman who had been caught in adultery. Jesus did not rebuke Matthew/Levi the tax collector, or Zachaeus, who admitted to cheating the people.

True but at least for the women caught in adultery ormaybe it was the prostitute he did say go and sin no more which as sort of a way of saying OK I forgive you but you need to now work on not sinning. As humans we are not perfect so I would imagine Jsus knew that the women may have come to a spiritual awakening and rebirth when she met Jesus but this was not going to stop her being tempted by sin. So he specifically mentioned to her to go and sin no more as a way to make changes in her life.

The job of informing sinners of their universal sin ... is accomplished through the proclamation of the Law by the prophets. Jesus fulfilled that task by exposing the unreachably high standards of the Law ... in His own teaching in Galilee.

He starts out with the teachings of the Beatitudes ...

Matthew 5

“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.

He goes from there to explaining that the heart can sin, ... though there be no outward expression ...

Matthew 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment."

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

In Matthew 7, Jesus teaches us not to judge ... unless you already have all of your ducks in order ...

Matthew 7:1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."

In John 18, Jesus does give us a guide for approaching a christian brother or sisters regarding sin or offense ...

John 18

15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Thankyou for this as I have forgotten the importance of these teachings of Jesus especially the Beatitudes. Jesus lays out how the laws are still in play but how he has fulfilled them. Jesus has brought about the spirit of why the laws were there and how they first make us aware of our sinful nature but then how we are transformed in Christ.

How it is what is in our hearts that lead us to sin and we cannot help others unless we are first right in our hearts with God. But mostly how Jesus points out the two most important commandments that cover all in loving God and loving others as we love ourselves.

 

[A_Thinker]

I think he also rebuked anyone who would lead children astray. He said they may as well put a millstone around their necks and jump into the river. I think that was pretty harsh.

I think that a warning is different than a rebuke.

A rebuke is for past sin.

A warning means to head off potential sin.

Also didn't Jesus mention hell more than anyone else in the Bible. Haven't investigated all the examples yet but the mention of hell seems to be a warning of the consequences of sin or not repenting.

Jesus spoke of heaven more than 3 times as much as he spoke of anything that we refer to as hell (i.e. Gehenna, outer darkness, death, etc.)

 

[stevevw]

I think that a warning is different than a rebuke.

A rebuke is for past sin.

A warning means to head off potential sin.

Jesus spoke of heaven more than 3 times as much as he spoke of anything that we refer to as hell (i.e. Gehenna, outer darkness, death, etc.)

But it seems Jesus spoke about Hell more than anyone else. I appreciate they may have been warnings but it also seems like Jesus is letting people who are sinning and hear those verses that living in sin is wrong and there are consequences. So get your act together before its too late.

Even his parables about the Kingdom of heaven point to those who will enter and those who will not and that those who dont act on living a good life by cultivating Christian values will miss out. Like the parable of the 10 virgins with the oil lamps Matthew 25: 1-13, where 5 were prepared and 5 were not, the parable of the Treasure hidden Matthew 44-46 where the man found the treatsure only to bury it again, and Mathew 25: 14-30 about the slaves investing the talents.

And verses like the following which tell people that unless you know God you will end up in eternal destruction away from God. She there are plenty of verses showing people that they should be getting their act together and turning away from sin.
2 Thessalonians 1
7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted (d)and to us as well (e)when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with (f)His mighty angels in flaming fire,
8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
Source: 2 Thessalonians 1 Parallel Bible

 

[A_Thinker]

But it seems Jesus spoke about Hell more than anyone else.

It may seem to you that Jesus spoke more on hell than heaven (many christian preachers and teachers have promoted this false belief) ... BUT it isn't TRUE ...

Did Jesus Speak More about Hell than He did about Heaven ?

 

[Hammster]

It may seem to you that Jesus spoke more on hell than heaven (many christian preachers and teachers have promoted this false belief) ... BUT it isn't TRUE ...

Did Jesus Speak More about Hell than He did about Heaven ?

That’s not what he said.

 

[A_Thinker]

That’s not what he said.

What do you think that he said ???

 

[stevevw]

It may seem to you that Jesus spoke more on hell than heaven (many christian preachers and teachers have promoted this false belief) ... BUT it isn't TRUE ...

Did Jesus Speak More about Hell than He did about Heaven ?

I didnt say Jesus spoke more on Hell than Heaven, I said he spoke more on Hell than any other Biblical Character.

 

[Hammster]

What do you think that he said ???

This.

It may seem to you that Jesus spoke more on hell than heaven (many christian preachers and teachers have promoted this false belief) ... BUT it isn't TRUE ...

 

[A_Thinker]

I didnt say Jesus spoke more on Hell than Heaven, I said he spoke more on Hell than any other Biblical Character.

Ah ... well it's likely that Jesus spoke MORE (in total) ... than any other biblical character, with the exception, perhaps, of Paul ... who, interestingly, ... didn't say anything about hell ...