Reasons You Do/Don't Believe the Bible

Broken Fence

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Did anyone else confirm this with you? Who else lived there? Who else had access to that board? Was the board ever not in your direct sight or in your direct presence? Did you ever see the board marker move on it's own? If so, did others as well? If so, did you notify others, to investigate?



This statement contradicts with the statement you made directly above: (i.e.)

-- "never believed in a spirit world at all."

-- "I got on my knees and asked God please send Your angel to protect me"

Seems to me like maybe you were already a believer of sorts.



Why the Bible specifically, when there exists a plethora of circulating religious doctrines out there?




Well then, if you read your Bible, you would realize what it specifically states about the idea or thought of a woman pastor:


"11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."

Just still seems a little fishy that you immediately turned to Jesus, when there exists so many claims for gods in this world...?.? And furthermore, that you only looked to one plausible choice, while claiming you did not believe in any of them at all.
You sure do ask a lot of questions. My mom and her boyfriend burned the wedgie board after I told them what happened. That is my testimony how I came to the Lord. Yes I saw the board move on its own.
 
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cvanwey

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Always another ‘how, why, what, would you explain’ question. Not for an answer mind you, but only to find another word or phrase to twist and distort, and use to promote confusion.

Follow up to the OP.... Are you only interested in the reasons people believe? Or, are you interested in anyone exploring the given reason(s) people actually believe?

If it's the later, I would not mind diving into post #119. For which much of it I responded, without all these pesky followup questions ;)
 
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cvanwey

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You sure do ask a lot of questions. My mom and her boyfriend burned the wedgie board after I told them what happened. That is my testimony how I came to the Lord.

Then please forgive me for the questions. If you read the later parts of my response, you will start to see where I'm going with this... Care to continue, or are you not interested in exploring 'truth'?
 
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Broken Fence

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Then please forgive me for the questions. If you read the later parts of my response, you will start to see where I'm going with this... Care to continue, or are you not interested in exploring 'truth'?
I'll save you some time. I saw the board move on its own. Yes I have a mental illness am schizophrenic. So you can dismiss me outright. That is my testimony. My mom has seen the changes in me and has rededicated her life to Jesus.
 
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cvanwey

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I'll save you some time. I saw the board move on its own. Yes I have a mental illness am schizophrenic. So you can dismiss me outright. That is my testimony. My mom has seen the changes in me and has rededicated her life to Jesus.

Thank you for your clarification. It is quite appreciated. No more questions.
 
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inquiring mind

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Not sure if/what you might actually respond to below?.?.. Hence, I'll give very short answers. You can then feel free to answer, or not, as you already have prior :)

The thought of placing all these works together, comprising of 'the NT', was a much later concept. Likely long after all such 'authors' were dead. Therefore, these 'knock-down drag-outs' were later applied only by much later generations; as 'the church' determined what to leave in and out of the decided 'final canon.'
Okay, being a little satirical in that post, regarding the nature of man without the Holy Spirit directing him, but you very well understood the satire and the point I was making. All you can do is respond with “The thought of placing all these works together, comprising of 'the NT', was a much later concept. Likely long after all such 'authors' were dead. Therefore, these 'knock-down drag-outs' were later applied only by much later generations; as 'the church' determined what to leave in and out of the decided 'final canon.” No lecture required... of course they were dead that’s why I said “Descendants or remote family members” (even if it was only remote religous family members, who by the way likely had many disputes, but worked it out without discrediting it). Do you see where I'm going here with the nature of man and the Holy Spirit being involved?

And speaking of the Gospels, 'Luke' was written to give a more positive spin to the Romans. We may not know who exactly wrote Luke, but it would appear whomever did, wanted to paint the Romans out to be more 'likeable.' We can also clearly see ad hoc/post hoc additions to earlier established additions of "Mark". 'You know, all the typical stuff'.
But again, you responded here improperly.
See you make my point, although you’re not meaning to. You can’t even observe them 2,000 years later without focusing on ‘all the typical stuff’ (the nature of man).

The interlocutor suggested that the Bible came from God because it says so. I then pointed out that other competing texts also state they came from God, because they say so. So how might we go about finding out which one is true, if any?
You're going to have to give up on all the philosopical logic and reasoning... what answers has it provided you with??? All you have is questions and more questions. Pray for direction, ask for forgiveness, do the best you can, we'll all know by and by.
 
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cvanwey

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Okay, being a little satirical in that post, regarding the nature of man without the Holy Spirit directing him, but you very well understood the satire and the point I was making. All you can do is respond with “The thought of placing all these works together, comprising of 'the NT', was a much later concept. Likely long after all such 'authors' were dead. Therefore, these 'knock-down drag-outs' were later applied only by much later generations; as 'the church' determined what to leave in and out of the decided 'final canon.” No lecture required... of course they were dead that’s why I said “Descendants or remote family members” (even if it was only remote religous family members, who by the way likely had many disputes, but worked it out without discrediting it). Do you see where I'm going here with the nature of man and the Holy Spirit being involved?

Quite frankly, I did not place much effort into the given response, because it's quickly becoming a trend, that you hardly truly engage anyways. However, I still have some hope. Hence the half-given skeletonized responses. If you wish to address something more specific, let me know?

I'll start, and see where this goes...

In post #119, you also stated
"and discredited the entire work". To us unbelievers, many of us feel the given collective works are a testament to their discredit. -- No pun intended.

You have Mark. You then have documented additions to the end of Mark. You then look at Luke, which either copies from Mark, or spins stuff to paint a better light of the Romans.

The first topic to address, if your focus is on the Gospels specifically, might be...

Sorry, question time.... :)

What from Mark was ACTUALLY REAL?

- Who actually wrote Mark, and why?
- Did Jesus actually exist?
- Was there instead possibly multiple people floating around, during this time period, and the author maybe just jumbled them all together? Claims of being a Messiah and magic were pretty common-place.
- Did Jesus actually say everything which was claimed?
- Did Jesus actually do everything which was later said?
- Do we have attested and corroborated eyewitness attestations of said miracles, or is oral tradition alone actually sufficient here?
- Just because some stuff can be verified as actually happening, like people living and places in history, does that immediately warrant the truthiness to supernatural claims as well?
- What say-you about the additional added 'ending' in Mark 16:8, <to> the additional one added, via Mark 16:9-20?

See you make my point, although you’re not meaning to. You can’t even observe them 2,000 years later without focusing on ‘all the typical stuff’ (the nature of man).

I'm going to ignore this statement, as I see skeptical inquiry as a 'good' thing. Just as I would imagine you do for all opposing claims of opposing claimed entities. Which begs the question, why imply special pleading, and not adopt the same level of skepticism when it comes to your own Book? Oh, that's right, because you quoted a verse which states that if you don't believe it, it's only because you are a sinner. I almost forgot :)


You're going to have to give up on all the philosopical logic and reasoning... what answers has it provided you with??? All you have is questions and more questions. Pray for direction, ask for forgiveness, do the best you can, we'll all know by and by.

Please see directly above. Other Books claim they came from God, because they say so as well. You reject those, and adhere to yours. And it seems the reason you believe yours, is because it also states that if you do not believe it, it is because you are shrouded in sin.

But yea, I'll abandon logic and submit anyways. Sound like a great plan. I'm willing to bet you know why I ask such questions. It is because they expose a plausibility to 'reasoning', or lack there-of, you currently employ.
 
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inquiring mind

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But yea, I'll abandon logic and submit anyways. Sound like a great plan. I'm willing to bet you know why I ask such questions. It is because they expose a plausibility to 'reasoning', or lack there-of, you currently employ.
“And if you would know God be not therefore a solver of riddles. Rather look about you and you shall see Him playing with your children.” Kahlil Gibran
 
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Paul.

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I don't know--I'm not a physicist. My instinct is that it doesn't matter. If an observable and unexplainable event occurs, neither you or I can claim it as evidence. It is unexplained. At best, one has to remain agnostic about the cause of said event.
While I do not agree with everything stated without clarification, I will provide information later in this post that will cover this.

My initial definition of a miracle was ad hoc. If I thought about it longer, maybe I would come up with a better definition.
I applaud your frankness in stating this.

The Cambridge Dictionary defines a miracle as:
an unusual and mysterious event that is thought to have been caused by a god because it does not follow the usual laws of nature.

That seem like a better definition than mine. The word miracle evokes the idea of a god and not simply unknown phenomenon.

Do you have any reliable evidence a miracle has ever occurred?
The Cambridge Dictionary’s definition of miracles needs further clarification to be a full enough definition on what a miracle is. Before I put forward any evidence of a miracle, clearly defining what constitutes a miracle and what does not, needs to occur.

An unusual or mysterious event that occurs regularly is not miraculous. It is simply an unknown phenomenon. Do you have any objections to this first clarification?

I have noticed that you have missed a question I posted in the quoted post. I will state it again to save time. Does that mean, since position 2 in your post (#26 in this thread) allows for miracles while making no claims to knowledge, it allows the possibility that miracles might not occur?
 
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Caliban

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While I do not agree with everything stated without clarification, I will provide information later in this post that will cover this.

I applaud your frankness in stating this.

The Cambridge Dictionary’s definition of miracles needs further clarification to be a full enough definition on what a miracle is. Before I put forward any evidence of a miracle, clearly defining what constitutes a miracle and what does not, needs to occur.

An unusual or mysterious event that occurs regularly is not miraculous. It is simply an unknown phenomenon. Do you have any objections to this first clarification?

I have noticed that you have missed a question I posted in the quoted post. I will state it again to save time. Does that mean, since position 2 in your post (#26 in this thread) allows for miracles while making no claims to knowledge, it allows the possibility that miracles might not occur?
No matter what standard definition of miracle you use; I don't think they occur. I think there are most probably, natural explanations for the things we don't understand.
 
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cvanwey

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“And if you would know God be not therefore a solver of riddles. Rather look about you and you shall see Him playing with your children.” Kahlil Gibran

Post #148:

"you hardly truly engage anyways."
 
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Paul.

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No matter what standard definition of miracle you use; I don't think they occur. I think there are most probably, natural explanations for the things we don't understand.
I do not knnow where to go from here. Stating that you are not interested in defining terms during the process of defiining them does not take us forward. You are skipping past my questions on logic and reasoning. Am I wrong in thinking you believe logic and reason are the most important tools to use to get to the correct worldview?
 
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HitchSlap

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I do not knnow where to go from here. Stating that you are not interested in defining terms during the process of defiining them does not take us forward. You are skipping past my questions on logic and reasoning. Am I wrong in thinking you believe logic and reason are the most important tools to use to get to the correct worldview?
Is it reasonable to believe a man walked on water two thousand years ago?
 
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Caliban

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I do not knnow where to go from here. Stating that you are not interested in defining terms during the process of defiining them does not take us forward. You are skipping past my questions on logic and reasoning. Am I wrong in thinking you believe logic and reason are the most important tools to use to get to the correct worldview?
I am not here to simple be asked endless questions while you go down some checklist toward some clever little end-game I am not privy to. Just get to the point. Make your case in one post and provide the evidence.
 
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Paul.

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Is it reasonable to believe a man walked on water two thousand years ago?
The claim that a man walked on water two thousand years ago is a claim of the miraculous event occurred. For it to be reasonable to believe that such an event occurred, several conditions must be met:
  1. It must be reasonable to believe miracles can occur
  2. The evidence of the occurrence of the event must be reliable
  3. The event must meet the criteria of a miracle
 
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HitchSlap

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The claim that a man walked on water two thousand years ago is a claim of the miraculous event occurred. For it to be reasonable to believe that such an event occurred, several conditions must be met:
  1. It must be reasonable to believe miracles can occur
  2. The evidence of the occurrence of the event must be reliable
  3. The event must meet the criteria of a miracle
You used a lot of words, when “no” would have sufficed.

So why believe?
 
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Caliban

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I do not knnow where to go from here. Stating that you are not interested in defining terms during the process of defiining them does not take us forward. You are skipping past my questions on logic and reasoning. Am I wrong in thinking you believe logic and reason are the most important tools to use to get to the correct worldview?
Just make your point. I am not an apologetic punching bag where you practice your socratic checklist. Make a claim and defend it with evidence. Why is that so hard?
 
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HitchSlap

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Just make your point. I am not an apologetic punching bag where you practice your socratic checklist. Make a claim and defend it with evidence. Why is that so hard?
...because he knows the jig is up.
 
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